HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Notices

Shero personally scouting COL-MIN game on 2/14

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-16-2013, 10:13 AM
  #226
PensFan6687
Registered User
 
PensFan6687's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,999
vCash: 500
O'Reilly seems the most logical choice as a guy that Shero would be looking at despite the fact he was upset he didn't get the captain "C", and if that's the case, that is a lame reason to want out... but the fact remains our strength is at center and that is his natural position. Not everyone does well being taken out of their natural position.

It seems like a bit of a reach.

PensFan6687 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 10:15 AM
  #227
mpp9
Registered User
 
mpp9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 16,742
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
O'Reilly is so much better than any of the wing options we've talked about that you go for him and figure out the rest later.

He would work great with either Sid or Geno.
If you can get him, you absolutely do it. With him available and the Avs needing D, at least it's a conceivable match. But I still say we'd be better off finding a three party deal. I dunno if he's worth what hes asking on the wing, even at a discount on a contender. We need another precision tool up front, his greatest worth is as a two way center.

mpp9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 10:16 AM
  #228
PensFan6687
Registered User
 
PensFan6687's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
If you can get him, you absolutely do it. With him available and the Avs needing D, at least it's a conceivable match. But I still say we'd be better off finding a three party deal. I dunno if he's worth what hes asking on the wing, even at a discount on a contender. We need another precision tool up front, his greatest worth is as a two way center.
Yeah and we have that in Sutter. Again, this feels like a reach.

PensFan6687 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 10:16 AM
  #229
CrosbyMalkin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
why did we trade Staal again?
Why not? He would not sign the $6 million deal we offered which I believed was to much for Staal anyway. Sutter honestly is doing just as good as Staal did for us in my opinion. We get a younger and much cheaper cap hit plus the 8th overall pick in the draft and their 2nd best prospect who is NHL ready and would be playing on several teams.

Staal was a good 3rd line player for us but anytime he had his chance to show he could be a top line center he could not step up his game. When Crosby and Malkin went down Staal still could not produce at a higher rate than his 3rd line production. Staal never looked good on the PP either.

Staal might prove good value for $6 million a year with the Canes (I doubt it) but he never would of been worth $6 million a year on this team. I for one would rather have Sutter at his cap hit than Staal even if no other players came in that deal. You can't pay a 3rd line center that does not play on your top PP that much money no matter how good he does for his role on the team. Sutter is just as good doing the 3rd line shut down center job and provide some scoring along with good PK work and much cheaper.

Getting Dumoulin is the type of big dman that can skate that will round out our D in a year. I can't wait to have Dumoulin, Bortuzzo, and Despres size in the line up paired with Letang, Morrow, and Harrington 2 years from now. That D will have the size, skill, and players that will compliment each other nicely. Also Pouliot could be fighting for a spot in two years against one of those 6. The return for Staal was very good in my opinion. Dumoulin has a good chance of being a top 4 dman and Pouliot has a chance to be a top 10 scoring dman and you get a center that in my opinion gives you the same results as Staal did for $4 million less cap hit. I for one love the return for Staal and I am glad he did not sign the Pens deal.

CrosbyMalkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 10:23 AM
  #230
Jag68Sid87
Registered User
 
Jag68Sid87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 28,041
vCash: 500
O'Reilly falls somewhere in between Staal and Sutter. He's not as big as either, but he's as gritty as Staal and far grittier than Sutter. He's not as good defensively as either, but he's not far from either. He's better offensively than Sutter, just slightly behind Staal. He has leadership qualities, similar to Staal. Better than Sutter.

Perhaps Shero wants O'Reilly because he misses having the dominant 3C model? Maybe he doesn't think any of the wingers he gets would 'get to our game', but O'Reilly would?

Who knows.

Jag68Sid87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 10:24 AM
  #231
IcedCapp
IcedCapp The White
 
IcedCapp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,247
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrosbyMalkin View Post
Why not? He would not sign the $6 million deal we offered which I believed was to much for Staal anyway. Sutter honestly is doing just as good as Staal did for us in my opinion. We get a younger and much cheaper cap hit plus the 8th overall pick in the draft and their 2nd best prospect who is NHL ready and would be playing on several teams.

Staal was a good 3rd line player for us but anytime he had his chance to show he could be a top line center he could not step up his game. When Crosby and Malkin went down Staal still could not produce at a higher rate than his 3rd line production. Staal never looked good on the PP either.

Staal might prove good value for $6 million a year with the Canes (I doubt it) but he never would of been worth $6 million a year on this team. I for one would rather have Sutter at his cap hit than Staal even if no other players came in that deal. You can't pay a 3rd line center that does not play on your top PP that much money no matter how good he does for his role on the team. Sutter is just as good doing the 3rd line shut down center job and provide some scoring along with good PK work and much cheaper.

Getting Dumoulin is the type of big dman that can skate that will round out our D in a year. I can't wait to have Dumoulin, Bortuzzo, and Despres size in the line up paired with Letang, Morrow, and Harrington 2 years from now. That D will have the size, skill, and players that will compliment each other nicely. Also Pouliot could be fighting for a spot in two years against one of those 6. The return for Staal was very good in my opinion. Dumoulin has a good chance of being a top 4 dman and Pouliot has a chance to be a top 10 scoring dman and you get a center that in my opinion gives you the same results as Staal did for $4 million less cap hit. I for one love the return for Staal and I am glad he did not sign the Pens deal.
some revisionist history and underrating of Staal going on here.

listening to Canes fans talk about him through 13 games, they are getting their money's worth.

IcedCapp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 10:27 AM
  #232
Omnomnomnom
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 611
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordy View Post
Yeah we could simply destroy the team and go from there.
Yeah, because adding another top-6 player to the roster is destroying the team...

As for the whole Staal debate, it's pretty clear we moved him because he wouldn't sign here, not because we couldn't fit him in the top 6. I thought the plan going forward was to get Staal more time with Malkin in the top-6 as a way to placate him, and he balked at that and the contract extension.

Either way, the idea of moving Malkin up to Sid's wing was half made in jest, because we aren't likely going to get him.

Omnomnomnom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 10:48 AM
  #233
CrosbyMalkin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
some revisionist history and underrating of Staal going on here.

listening to Canes fans talk about him through 13 games, they are getting their money's worth.
I don't see it as revisionist history. I thought $6 million a year was nuts back then. Honestly $6 million a year for 3rd line duty really?? I was against this and I am very happy with the Sutter deal. I knew at the time that Sutter was going to give us the same type of production or close enough while being the shut down 3rd line center we needed and he has.

I am glad the Cane fans are happy but really was anyone really happy with giving Staal $6 million a year? Give me Sutter at a $2 million cap hit any day of the week. That is $4 million more you have to spend on a winger. That plus Kennedy's $2 million lets you have a $6 million winger next season.

As far as O'Reilly goes he seems like something we don't need since we have Sutter. Unless it was a 3 way deal bringing in a scoring winger it does not make sense unless the price is right as far as what we are giving up. I don't know if I would want to give up Niskanen plus someone like Morrow. Niskanen, Kennedy, and a 2nd no problem but I don't like giving up high ceiling dmen only a year or two away for someone that sounds like he is going to be a pretty big cap hit and playing a position we don't know if he can produce well in. I rather play Bennett and keep our prospects unless it is a perfect fit which this does not seem like one to me.

With the cap going down we have to have smart cap management.

CrosbyMalkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 10:50 AM
  #234
Ugene Malkin
Bück Dich Baby!
 
Ugene Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: Germany
Posts: 21,064
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Shero never wanted to trade him. He actually offered him a 10 year deal.

ROR is a very valuable player that may be able to be had for a little below market value because of his contract situation and we may be a good partner since Colorado needs D prospects and prefers to send him east. You almost have to inquire in that situation but I don't think much will come of it. If we did land him then I'd imagine we'd flip him or Sutter for a quality winger.
Why? For one that would mean O'Reilly would again be stuck on a third line, the reason for the hold out.

2nd for the Penguins standing point keeping him and Sutter means, should one of the top centers going down there won't be as much of a drop off where as line 1A now only becomes 1B, instead of 1C or 1D.

I'd feel much better knowing we'll have a three line threat, or a 2 line threat at C worst case scenario.

Imagine having Max Talbot 2009 playoffs with Malkin type scenario all the time, but with Crosby. If Crosby is kicked from the face-off, would we like Dupuis or Kunitz taking that face off or O'Reilly?

3rd. Now imagine the PK face offs being tilted in our favor and not having to reley on Sid for a better result because no one else is above 50%.

Face-off percentages
#23-Crosby = 56.2%
#69-Sutter = 49.5%
#87-Malkin = 45.9%
#27-O'Reilly = 52.8 |< Note in 2011/12> = Home 54.8%/Road 51.0%

Darn, does Malkin concede to Sid whenever he can, eh?

4th. I'd also would understand wanting to pair him with, Geno. Face-offs.

O'Reilly, Malkin, Neal

It seems that O'Reilly is depth at playing anywhere on the ice from his center position, would he take to wing to fix that top six role he wants? I would think any player would play anywhere if it means they get better minutes, and he'll certainly get to play center a lot even with the Pens 5 on 5, PP,PK.

This is the kind of depth move you make.

Ugene Malkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 10:54 AM
  #235
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Golden Swallow
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 41,684
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
If you can get him, you absolutely do it. With him available and the Avs needing D, at least it's a conceivable match. But I still say we'd be better off finding a three party deal. I dunno if he's worth what hes asking on the wing, even at a discount on a contender. We need another precision tool up front, his greatest worth is as a two way center.
To be honest, if we had a chance to land O'Reilly, it'd have to be a pretty ****ing awesome winger to make me concede to moving him.

Like, Bobby Ryan awesome.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 10:56 AM
  #236
Ugene Malkin
Bück Dich Baby!
 
Ugene Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: Germany
Posts: 21,064
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
some revisionist history and underrating of Staal going on here.

listening to Canes fans talk about him through 13 games, they are getting their money's worth.
Sure they are, they have him at a bargain this season at 4.0 prorated for this season just above 2.0.

Next year I'd like to see where they stand when he's collecting 6.0. I want Jordan to succeed so I'll have no issue if he's doing well.

Ugene Malkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 10:58 AM
  #237
IcedCapp
IcedCapp The White
 
IcedCapp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,247
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrosbyMalkin View Post
I don't see it as revisionist history. I thought $6 million a year was nuts back then. Honestly $6 million a year for 3rd line duty really?? I was against this and I am very happy with the Sutter deal. I knew at the time that Sutter was going to give us the same type of production or close enough while being the shut down 3rd line center we needed and he has.

I am glad the Cane fans are happy but really was anyone really happy with giving Staal $6 million a year? Give me Sutter at a $2 million cap hit any day of the week. That is $4 million more you have to spend on a winger. That plus Kennedy's $2 million lets you have a $6 million winger next season.

As far as O'Reilly goes he seems like something we don't need since we have Sutter. Unless it was a 3 way deal bringing in a scoring winger it does not make sense unless the price is right as far as what we are giving up. I don't know if I would want to give up Niskanen plus someone like Morrow. Niskanen, Kennedy, and a 2nd no problem but I don't like giving up high ceiling dmen only a year or two away for someone that sounds like he is going to be a pretty big cap hit and playing a position we don't know if he can produce well in. I rather play Bennett and keep our prospects unless it is a perfect fit which this does not seem like one to me.

With the cap going down we have to have smart cap management.
I'm talking about saying he never performed well in a top-6 role. Did he do well when he had Neal and Kovalev on the wings? No...

But when Crosby was out and Malkin was healthy, Staal produced at a 60pt or better pace. And that was only with an increase in ice time, not better wingers. Now he's getting more ice time, getting PP time, and has better wingers.

He'll be worth the 6MM.

IcedCapp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 11:19 AM
  #238
EVGENIMERLIN
Registered User
 
EVGENIMERLIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 94
vCash: 500
Let's say hypothetically the Pens did trade for ROR, wouldn't placing him at 2C and moving Geno to LW solve the Winger issue? Isn't Geno the best possible option for a winger over even Perry/Ryan/Iggy etc?

For anyone who says "If they wouldn't do it for Staalsy why for ROR?" Well if you keep Sutter, which I think everyone would Highly recommend doing, you keep the 3C model that the Pens love. By moving Staal up, the Pens were going to sacrifice that impressive 3rd line.

ROR projects much better as a 2C than a 3C, is good in the faceoff circle, has some grit, and a good two way game. You could create some serious havoc for opposing teams by having


Kunitz-Crosby-Neal/Bennet
Malkin-ROR-Bennet/Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis/Boychuk/DJ
Glass-Vitale-Adams/Boychuck/DJ

EVGENIMERLIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 11:21 AM
  #239
BlindWillyMcHurt
Registered User
 
BlindWillyMcHurt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,772
vCash: 500
No disrespect but attempting to move Malkin to wing was a stupid idea years ago and it's just as (if not even more) stupid, now.

BlindWillyMcHurt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 11:23 AM
  #240
Captain Hook
Olli Määttä
 
Captain Hook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 13,380
vCash: 500
Malkin has won 2 Art Ross's, a Conn Smythe, and an MVP as a center. You shouldn't be moving him to the wing for inferior players like ROR or even Staal which they briefly tried and it failed miserably.

ROR can come in and possibly move to wing. He can easily be flipped for a high quality winger even if he doesn't pan out as a winger here. He's a very valuable young player.

Captain Hook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 11:39 AM
  #241
Whale Mingo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 247
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Malkin has won 2 Art Ross's, a Conn Smythe, and an MVP as a center. You shouldn't be moving him to the wing for inferior players like ROR or even Staal which they briefly tried and it failed miserably.
Everyone be quiet and let this man speak.

Whale Mingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 11:42 AM
  #242
cheesedanish87
Registered User
 
cheesedanish87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 4,512
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
O'Reilly falls somewhere in between Staal and Sutter. He's not as big as either, but he's as gritty as Staal and far grittier than Sutter. He's not as good defensively as either, but he's not far from either. He's better offensively than Sutter, just slightly behind Staal. He has leadership qualities, similar to Staal. Better than Sutter.

Perhaps Shero wants O'Reilly because he misses having the dominant 3C model? Maybe he doesn't think any of the wingers he gets would 'get to our game', but O'Reilly would?

Who knows.

Id much rather have Sutter then ROR. Sutter is such a perfect fit on this team hes brought a defensive first attitude to the pens that was very much needed. Sutter has scored 21 goals in a season ROR high has been 18.

cheesedanish87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 11:49 AM
  #243
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Golden Swallow
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 41,684
vCash: 500
My question is this:

If two smart offensive centers like Sid and Geno always play so well together, is it so inconceivable that two smart offensive centers like ROR and Malkin couldn't?

I'd have ROR take draws and Malkin play center afterwards, a la Talbot/Malkin in '09.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 11:58 AM
  #244
Pelican Peach Pen
BTR-ATL Pen
 
Pelican Peach Pen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: LA & GA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,646
vCash: 500
Okay ... we go after ROR ... do you really think Colrado gives him up for a budding defender or prospect? The Pens would have to give up something of substance off the roster (not TK) .... so who is it?

This is dumb as hell ...

Pelican Peach Pen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 12:25 PM
  #245
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Golden Swallow
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 41,684
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelican Peach Pen View Post
Okay ... we go after ROR ... do you really think Colrado gives him up for a budding defender or prospect? The Pens would have to give up something of substance off the roster (not TK) .... so who is it?

This is dumb as hell ...
A top 4 defenseman and one of our high-end defense prospects, I'm sure. And I'd do it.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 12:35 PM
  #246
Captain Hook
Olli Määttä
 
Captain Hook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 13,380
vCash: 500
The only top 4 D they'd move right now is Niskanen and his injury situation may make that tough. That guy is clearly not 100% based on watching him. Not sure why he's even playing.

I can see offering
Niskanen, Kennedy, One of Morrow/Pouliot/Maata

I can't see moving Despres if we're moving a top 4 D. He has to be the fill in.

Captain Hook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 12:50 PM
  #247
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 31,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
maybe because he wanted to play with his brother
I really think he was more worried about the real top 6 role. I think the brother was a good bonus on top of that, but I doubt he would have left if he knew he wasn't going to be stuck on the 3rd line with Cooke and TK.

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 01:03 PM
  #248
BigBenSF*
Worst Behavior
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: bay area
Country: United States
Posts: 2,797
vCash: 1441
One of the only offersmthat I could see Colorado considering is Sutter + Morrow.

BigBenSF* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 01:58 PM
  #249
invictus
Registered User
 
invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,803
vCash: 500
I rarely watch Western teams. How good is this ROR fellow, really? What is his game like?

invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2013, 02:02 PM
  #250
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Lesshaus > Morehaus
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Fangorn
Country: United States
Posts: 25,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBenSF View Post
One of the only offers that I could see Colorado considering is Sutter + Morrow.
Don't think it would require Morrow. Sutter is a good enough player that a complimentary prospect is all that would be required. Dumoulin maybe. As long as the prospect is ready to make the jump (and certainly that would be true in Colorado) it could. They might be more interested in a pick anyway. 2nd or 3rd.

Darth Vitale is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:37 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.