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Last 20 years of our drafts and some notable changes (food for though)

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02-14-2013, 01:45 AM
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MattMartin
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Last 20 years of our drafts and some notable changes (food for though)

I was having a debate the other day with one of my friends and i was mentioning that we have not seem to have lost good/great talent over the last 10 years opposed to the 10 prior as i will show below. Also if this was a perfect world and Wang could spend some money maybe we don't have some of the prospects we have now due to finishing better or getting better players using some our picks. The main point or question i'm asking is are we getting better at keeping our prospects or are we just not picking as well? I also know this is a bit early to tell because there are still some players in the system who have yet to make it to the NHL yet.

Here are the players who we picked form 1992-2012 who ended up playing for some length in the NHL.
92 draft Kasparaitis
93 draft Bertuzzi,McCabe,Salo, and Van Impe
94 draft Lukowich,Strudwick
95 draft Redden,Jan Hlavac
96 draft Dumot,Chara (Milbury to 2005)
97 draft Luongo,Brewer
98 draft Mike Rupp
99 draft Connolly,Pyatt, and Martinek
00 draft DiPietro,Torres
01 draft NOBODY and when i say nobody Andy Chiodo was the only player who played 1 or more games in the NHL from the 8 players we drafted and he played a grand total of 8 games.

So 1st 10 of 20 has some great players and some of which are still playing. Notice that only DP and Martinek (picked in the 8th round) have played a significant time with the Islanders. I bolded all the players still active in the league as of today.

The last 10 years
02 draft Bergenheim,Nielsen
03 draft Robert Nilsson,Gervais
04 draft Comeau,Campoli
05 draft nobody has done much of anything,Ryan O'Marra our 1st pick was traded in the Smyth deal (MMM last year)
06 draft Okposo,Joensuu,McDonald (Snow's 1st year as GM)
07 draft just had 5 picks and really nothing to name
08 draft 9 Joshua Bailey, 40 Aaron Ness 53 Travis Hamonic,Matt Donovan 102 David Ullstrom,126 Kevin Poulin,148 Matt Martin looking as the best draft we have had in many years.
09 draft John Tavares,Calvin de Haan,Mikko Koskinen,Anders Nilsson,Casey Cizika,Anders Lee
10 draft Nino Niederreiter,Brock Nelson,Kirill Kabanov
11 draft Ryan Strome,Scott Mayfield,Johan Sundstrom,John Persson,Brenden Kichton
12 draft Griffin Reinhart,Ville Pokka,Adam Pelech,Loic Leduc,Doyle Somerby,Jesse Graham,Jake Bischoff

Now obviously from 2010 on most players have yet to play in the NHL but some very good-great prospects, headlining are Nino,Nelson,Strome, and Reinhart. Now within the last 10 years we have lost some players but nothing as in terms of quality as like the previous 10 nor do i think any of them will ever become anything better then 2nd line players or 2nd line d pairings at best.

After all this never ending research i personally think GM Garth has drafted good-great and way better than Milbury and Maloney and considering 8 of those players he drafted are currently on our NHL roster and even besides the 4 i mentioned above there is still lots of talent behind them as well but those being the best 4 at the moment.

The draft history is here in case i missed anyone that you think of who has high potential who i may have left off and where i obtained my research
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00007085.html

P.S. for my mental sanity i did omit the "better" three brothers (Lindross,Kessel and Toews)


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02-14-2013, 11:18 AM
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DeanCrandall
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7 of those players are currently on a roster ... correct...which has finished no better then 26th overall in six years, how is this an accomplishment.

Sometimes mediocracy sets in too long and people get used to it. Prime example Nino, one goal in 55 games (off his face), and a -29 and people still talking like he's our hidden gem. Yes I know he was young, when he provesme wrong I will eat crow, a wasted 5th overall pick. Sure a decent AHL player but not tough enough for the bigs.

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02-14-2013, 11:34 AM
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Mattmartin, thanks for the list, really interesting stuff. Unfortunately, this shows the ineptitude of this franchise, draft-wise, goes way back, way before the Wang/Snow era. From Torrey (late 80's-early 90's) to Maloney to Milbury to Snow, the Islanders just have been pretty awful draft-wise. I'd venture to say, Snow's picks have been pretty damned solid the last 5 years. But overall, the last 25 years have been pretty putrid. Yet, I still am a draft addict, go figure lol.

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02-14-2013, 11:35 AM
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IMO, we're going to know exactly how well this franchise's drafting has been and how deep our prospect pool is at the start of the 2014 season. Until then, ill reserve judgement.

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02-14-2013, 11:40 AM
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I would argue that the CdH pick was a failure to date, and some individual choices like Bailey, or Nino over Fowler, but overall the drafting has been better. However, the support for later development of the prospects prior to this year was still bad under Snow. Drafting & development... you can still render the first part meaningless if the second is not done well.

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02-14-2013, 12:30 PM
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Other than the 2008 draft, your list doesn't really show anything. You list a bunch of prospects we are all excited about, but every draft had prospects the team was excited about. What will make these drafts different is if the kids actually make it. We won't know anything about these drafts for a couple more years.

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02-14-2013, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrisUML View Post
IMO, we're going to know exactly how well this franchise's drafting has been and how deep our prospect pool is at the start of the 2014 season. Until then, ill reserve judgement.
Agree completely. It is too early to judge how well/poorly Snow has fared with his draft picks. Draft picks always seem to look better right after they are drafted and the most current picks almost always gravitate to the top of the top prospect lists since they have yet to be "exposed" from playing at higher levels against increased competition.

Okposo is a perfect example. Right from the draft he was our next top power forward in the mold of a John Tonelli yet we now see him as an underperformer who many of us would trade or, at the very least, demote to the 3rd line.

It is easy to fault Snow for missing out on some players that have already performed at a high level....Skinner, Fowler, Couturier, et al. I'm happy to give him some additional time to develop his picks before passing judgment however he does look bad for overdrafting Bailey, giving up the farm for DeHaan and spending the 1st pick of the 2nd round for a crapshoot goatender in Koskinen.

It's also discouraging to watch so many good young players each night on Gamecenter and see that, outside of Tavares and Hamonic, we have to resort to AHL waiver pickups to fill out our roster.

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02-14-2013, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanCrandall View Post
7 of those players are currently on a roster ... correct...which has finished no better then 26th overall in six years, how is this an accomplishment.

Sometimes mediocracy sets in too long and people get used to it. Prime example Nino, one goal in 55 games (off his face), and a -29 and people still talking like he's our hidden gem. Yes I know he was young, when he provesme wrong I will eat crow, a wasted 5th overall pick. Sure a decent AHL player but not tough enough for the bigs.
Let me start by saying i made a mistake it's actually eight..JT,Bailey,Okposo,MacDonald,Hamonic,Cizikis, Ullstrom and Martin. Out of these 8 JT,Bailey and Okposo were 1st rounders. Now with this being said other then Okposo (in the dog house right now) how do you personally feel about the other 7? I think from the 7 that i can argue that most of them have played really well this season and have been our best players on the ice (MacDonald has been a little rough lately). What i also brought up was the fact if Wang now lets say opened his purse and we surrounded them with quality FA signings at the end of the season as opposed to lets say Reasoner,Boyes,Boulton,Carkner,Aucoin,Hickey,Finle y,Strait, and McDonald how do you think we would be looking going in 13/14? Now I know Strait and Aucoin have been playing well but again a majority of these players would be depth signings on most teams. If only we had a owner who cared and surrounded those 8 draftees with some real talent and let them play on lines better suited for them as opposed to depth signing talent. What i guess i'm getting as is that we have a good young core (something we have not had in a long time) and i don't see how you can deny that or dumb it down.


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02-14-2013, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
I would argue that the CdH pick was a failure to date, and some individual choices like Bailey, or Nino over Fowler, but overall the drafting has been better.
I think CDH would have been here if not for the injury but yes i can't argue until he stays healthy he is considered bust worthy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
However, the support for later development of the prospects prior to this year was still bad under Snow. Drafting & development... you can still render the first part meaningless if the second is not done well.
I agree again but this is what really pisses me off because if only fricking Wang would get some real freaking help in here we could be developing these players better and have a NHL roster infused with the kids. Instead it's WW players (some have panned out really well) and Boyes,Carkner,Reasoner and Boulton's of the world as "key" free agent signings playing with them..Makes me so mad.

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02-14-2013, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
Mattmartin, thanks for the list, really interesting stuff. Unfortunately, this shows the ineptitude of this franchise, draft-wise, goes way back, way before the Wang/Snow era. From Torrey (late 80's-early 90's) to Maloney to Milbury to Snow, the Islanders just have been pretty awful draft-wise. I'd venture to say, Snow's picks have been pretty damned solid the last 5 years. But overall, the last 25 years have been pretty putrid. Yet, I still am a draft addict, go figure lol.
Hey Scott, glad that you liked the list! I am slowly becoming a "draft addict" myself.

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02-14-2013, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ferrisUML View Post
IMO, we're going to know exactly how well this franchise's drafting has been and how deep our prospect pool is at the start of the 2014 season. Until then, ill reserve judgement.
Agreed but you can't deny 8 players drafted by Snow are playing on the roster, 7 of which are playing really well for us.

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02-14-2013, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
Other than the 2008 draft, your list doesn't really show anything. You list a bunch of prospects we are all excited about, but every draft had prospects the team was excited about. What will make these drafts different is if the kids actually make it. We won't know anything about these drafts for a couple more years.
Well here is the difference yet again, 8 players drafted with Snow as our GM are on this team and if you use Hockey's Future we are top 5 in prospects. Now lets say Wang could allow to make some moves and add some money to the team those prospects that we speak of could be dealt for some proven NHL talent but that will not happen because Wang wont open up the wallet.

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02-14-2013, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MattMartin View Post
Agreed but you can't deny 8 players drafted by Snow are playing on the roster, 7 of which are playing really well for us.
Can't deny it, but there are no points for that. The rebuild through the draft should ulimately propel us up the standings, not annual lottery finishes. All 23 (?) roster players could be Snow draft picks, but if all that gets us is more lottery finishes then thats not attribute of drafting success. Maybe it is, but indicative of poor asset management.

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02-14-2013, 04:31 PM
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MattMartin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeT98213 View Post
Agree completely. It is too early to judge how well/poorly Snow has fared with his draft picks. Draft picks always seem to look better right after they are drafted and the most current picks almost always gravitate to the top of the top prospect lists since they have yet to be "exposed" from playing at higher levels against increased competition.
Too early to tell with 8 of his draft picks currently on the team and 4 very highly potential players on their way? I kindly disagree.

Quote:
Okposo is a perfect example. Right from the draft he was our next top power forward in the mold of a John Tonelli yet we now see him as an underperformer who many of us would trade or, at the very least, demote to the 3rd line.
I cannot argue that Okposo has not panned out as well as we thought he would.

Quote:
It is easy to fault Snow for missing out on some players that have already performed at a high level....Skinner, Fowler, Couturier, et al. I'm happy to give him some additional time to develop his picks before passing judgment however he does look bad for overdrafting Bailey, giving up the farm for DeHaan and spending the 1st pick of the 2nd round for a crapshoot goatender in Koskinen.
You want to throw out the missed picks i can understand that but lets be fair,
Andrew McDoanld was drafted in round 6 (160th overall.
David Ullstrom round 4 (102 overall)
Matt Martin round 5 (148th overall)
Travis Hamonic round 2 (53rd overall)
Casey Cizikas round 4 (92nd overall)

Now other then McDonald (who was praised until about a week ago) of these current 5 would you really complain about any of their performances this season? I personally will not and just think if we (yet again) signed some talent how good would we be looking with Martin,Cizikas, and Ullstrom as our 4th line?????????

Quote:
It's also discouraging to watch so many good young players each night on Gamecenter and see that, outside of Tavares and Hamonic, we have to resort to AHL waiver pickups to fill out our roster.
see above, that's not a draft issue it's a spending issue!

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02-14-2013, 04:37 PM
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Well here is the difference yet again, 8 players drafted with Snow as our GM are on this team and if you use Hockey's Future we are top 5 in prospects. Now lets say Wang could allow to make some moves and add some money to the team those prospects that we speak of could be dealt for some proven NHL talent but that will not happen because Wang wont open up the wallet.
For the record, Okposo was not a Snow draftee.

While it is true that there are 7 Snow draftees on the team, one of those was a #1 pick no brainer, and 5 are from the 2008 draft when Snow had 13 picks.

I like our prospect pool, and I think Snow has done well, but it is too early to say for sure.

For instance, the 2008 draft looks great now. But think back to the 1999 draft. Pyatt, Connolly, Mezei, Weinhandl, Kolnik, Martinek all played at least 2 seasons in the NHL. That doesn't even include Justin Mapletoft and Kristian Kudroc, both of which were considered very good prospects. At one point that draft looked like the 2008 draft looks now.

It is way too early to make any kind of an assessment on Snow's drafting ability.

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02-14-2013, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ferrisUML View Post
Can't deny it, but there are no points for that. The rebuild through the draft should ulimately propel us up the standings, not annual lottery finishes. All 23 (?) roster players could be Snow draft picks, but if all that gets us is more lottery finishes then thats not attribute of drafting success. Maybe it is, but indicative of poor asset management.
Do you really believe that Snow and our scouts can be expected to draft 23 starting players without adding any talent and expect to be anything but a lottery team??????
Show me 1 GM who has done this! (obviously none for a reason). Again we have a core and still 4 high end prospects who have yet to really play and that's my point!! We have the youth now all we need is for that SOB Wang to fill the rest of the remaining spots with some freaking talent by spending some of those millions/billions that he has!!!!!!!

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02-14-2013, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ferrisUML View Post
Can't deny it, but there are no points for that. The rebuild through the draft should ulimately propel us up the standings, not annual lottery finishes. All 23 (?) roster players could be Snow draft picks, but if all that gets us is more lottery finishes then thats not attribute of drafting success. Maybe it is, but indicative of poor asset management.

The 08' draft is even better, as Jared Spurgeon is playing in the NHL and has been for a while. He only has 4 games this year but just got activated off the IR yesterday.

It's still to early to even judge the 08 class (when the current rebuild began) and obviously much to early to evaluate any class thereafter.

At this point in time though 08 looks like it could be special and there are some other potential dynomite classes as well.

Maybe Snow and staff doesn't deserved to be lauded just yet for their drafting prowess, but it simply can NOT be criticized at this point either, at least not if you want to be taken seriously.

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02-14-2013, 05:25 PM
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MattMartin
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Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
For the record, Okposo was not a Snow draftee.

While it is true that there are 7 Snow draftees on the team, one of those was a #1 pick no brainer, and 5 are from the 2008 draft when Snow had 13 picks.

I like our prospect pool, and I think Snow has done well, but it is too early to say for sure.

For instance, the 2008 draft looks great now. But think back to the 1999 draft. Pyatt, Connolly, Mezei, Weinhandl, Kolnik, Martinek all played at least 2 seasons in the NHL. That doesn't even include Justin Mapletoft and Kristian Kudroc, both of which were considered very good prospects. At one point that draft looked like the 2008 draft looks now.

It is way too early to make any kind of an assessment on Snow's drafting ability.
Was it Neil Smith that drafted Okposo?

The 1999 draft was highlighted by Patrick Stefan going #1 overall and other than the Sedin's it was known to be a weak draft. I'm saying weak as in terms of 99 not as of today. When the #1 overall pick plays 455 games and scores 64 NHL goals and is not a shut down #1 Dman with a career ending injury you can't argue it was a weak draft. Now i do understand that in 2008 we still have some time before we can know if it was really awesome draft but comparing 1999 vs 2008 i truly believe we have much better prospects and even players considering again Hamonic is looking like a #2 Dman, Martin has played great for his roll for a few years now and Ullstrom whom everyone seems to love and is playing very well to boot and Cizikis looks like a good 4th line player (which he is).

Some comparisons... Bailey kind of reminds me of Connolly ( i also know Connolly was suppose to be a stud where as Bailey was a little questionable at 8) but the jury is still out because Bailey is now becoming a better player and Connolly suffered many injuries.

Mezei on his best day has nowhere looked as good as Hamonic and Mezei was selected 10th overall.

Pyatt was selected 8th and his been with 5 NHL teams were as Martin was picked 148th and considering Pyatt was suppose to be a goal scorer and Martin (at best being a guy who barely had a shot at a full time NHL career) i think has played great his 1st few seasons and may i dare say just as valuable in terms of his roll compared to Pyatts roll.

Weinhandl vs Ullstrom is not yet proven but again i'm liking Ullstrom more and more every game i watch him.

Kurdoc was another 1st round selection and since it was 99 and i don't remember if he was playing as well as Donovan or Ness at the time,i will put good money that either one will have more impact then he did which is not hard considering he played 26 NHL games.

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