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ATD 2013 Lineup Advice Thread

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Old
03-05-2013, 02:52 PM
  #301
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Maybe move Chara down to second unit pp?
This is a good idea...it would put Pronovost on the 1st unit of both special teams, but he's a guy that could easily be on a top ES pairing and he's only playing second pairing on your team, so I think he can handle it.

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03-05-2013, 02:55 PM
  #302
monster_bertuzzi
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Done, Thanks boys.

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03-05-2013, 03:05 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Thanks. Both of your suggestions crossed my mind, but I do think Chara and Kelly are horses that can play all situations.
Wasn't doubting their ability on special teams and even strength because everybody is aware they are all-around weapons. It's the fact that they will be extremely tired if one or the other is playing in all situations on the first pairing.

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03-05-2013, 03:16 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Wasn't doubting their ability on special teams and even strength because everybody is aware they are all-around weapons. It's the fact that they will be extremely tired if one or the other is playing in all situations on the first pairing.
Given this present time, Chara plays a lot of minutes. But in this scenario, where these are the best ever teams assembled, yeh he would wear down a bit....but then again, who wouldn't?

He's currently 35 yrs old and for his career he's averaging 24:44 in ice time, but take into consideration that he is a fitness and conditioning maniac...he will give a high quality of play over a lot of critical minutes.

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03-05-2013, 03:18 PM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Wasn't doubting their ability on special teams and even strength because everybody is aware they are all-around weapons. It's the fact that they will be extremely tired if one or the other is playing in all situations on the first pairing.
I think Kelly is legitimately a guy who can play 1st unit straight across in the ATD without getting worn out. I'm pretty sure he was a big minute-eater in real life, and he has all sorts of durability and longevity on his side. I think the problem was more Chara, who is also a horse, but who isn't good enough on the PP to warrant stretching his icetime like that, especially on a team with a #3 like Pronovost.

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03-05-2013, 03:45 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
Given this present time, Chara plays a lot of minutes. But in this scenario, where these are the best ever teams assembled, yeh he would wear down a bit....but then again, who wouldn't?

He's currently 35 yrs old and for his career he's averaging 24:44 in ice time, but take into consideration that he is a fitness and conditioning maniac...he will give a high quality of play over a lot of critical minutes.
That's what I was getting at for the most part, thanks Bubs. 25-27 minutes a game in a league of this caliber would be the absolute max I'd expect a player to be able to play. Elite two-way defensemen being the category capable of producing efficiently for this amount of minutes in a game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I think Kelly is legitimately a guy who can play 1st unit straight across in the ATD without getting worn out. I'm pretty sure he was a big minute-eater in real life, and he has all sorts of durability and longevity on his side. I think the problem was more Chara, who is also a horse, but who isn't good enough on the PP to warrant stretching his icetime like that, especially on a team with a #3 like Pronovost.
I just think considering the tough competition, it would be almost inhuman for any player to be able to play that much in a league assembled of all the best players of all time. But Kelly would be among the few that could probably take on all three top units.

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03-06-2013, 12:55 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
I just think considering the tough competition, it would be almost inhuman for any player to be able to play that much in a league assembled of all the best players of all time. But Kelly would be among the few that could probably take on all three top units.
I would have to think about it with any less than the truly elite defensemen, but at least the top-7 group (of which Kelly is generally the last chosen) should be on #1 units straight across. I mean, why even draft a guy like Denis Potvin if you can't count on him to anchor your top special teams units? It's a big part of these players' value.

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03-06-2013, 01:05 AM
  #308
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I would have to think about it with any less than the truly elite defensemen, but at least the top-7 group (of which Kelly is generally the last chosen) should be on #1 units straight across. I mean, why even draft a guy like Denis Potvin if you can't count on him to anchor your top special teams units? It's a big part of these players' value.
I mostly agree, but I think it's a little more than the top 7...I definitely wouldn't have a problem with Fetisov doing it. Robinson would probably be fine. I see Chelios/Park as kind of the borderline.

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Old
03-06-2013, 01:25 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
I mostly agree, but I think it's a little more than the top 7...I definitely wouldn't have a problem with Fetisov doing it. Robinson would probably be fine. I see Chelios/Park as kind of the borderline.
Yeah, that's probably about right. I might not play Robinson on the top PP if I had better options simply because he wasn't an elite PP quarterback (he was more of an even-strength puckmover), but I'd probably have Fetisov #1 straight across, you're right.

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03-06-2013, 01:55 AM
  #310
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Markus Näslund - Peter Forsberg - Odie Cleghorn
Syd Howe - Darryl Sittler - Dino Ciccarelli
Mats Näslund - Edgar Laprade - Bob Nystrom
- Derek Sanderson -

Denis Potvin - Butch Bouchard
Brad McCrimmon - Flash Hollett
Jamie Macoun -

Martin Brodeur

PP1: Markus Näslund - Peter Forsberg - Dino Ciccarelli, Denis Potvin - Butch Bouchard

PP2: Syd Howe - Darryl Sittler - Odie Cleghorn, Flash Hollett

PK1: Derek Sanderson - Bob Nystrom, Denis potvin- Butch Bouchard

PK2: Edgar Laprade - , Brad McCrimmon - Jamie Macoun

What do you guys think?

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03-06-2013, 02:12 AM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
Markus Näslund - Peter Forsberg - Odie Cleghorn
Syd Howe - Darryl Sittler - Dino Ciccarelli
Mats Näslund - Edgar Laprade - Bob Nystrom
- Derek Sanderson -

Denis Potvin - Butch Bouchard
Brad McCrimmon - Flash Hollett
Jamie Macoun -

Martin Brodeur

PP1: Markus Näslund - Peter Forsberg - Dino Ciccarelli, Denis Potvin - Butch Bouchard

PP2: Syd Howe - Darryl Sittler - Odie Cleghorn, Flash Hollett

PK1: Derek Sanderson - Bob Nystrom, Denis potvin- Butch Bouchard

PK2: Edgar Laprade - , Brad McCrimmon - Jamie Macoun

What do you guys think?
i don't think Butch Bouchard should play on the first PP unit

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Old
03-06-2013, 02:25 AM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
Markus Näslund - Peter Forsberg - Odie Cleghorn
Syd Howe - Darryl Sittler - Dino Ciccarelli
Mats Näslund - Edgar Laprade - Bob Nystrom
- Derek Sanderson -

Denis Potvin - Butch Bouchard
Brad McCrimmon - Flash Hollett
Jamie Macoun -

Martin Brodeur

PP1: Markus Näslund - Peter Forsberg - Dino Ciccarelli, Denis Potvin - Butch Bouchard

PP2: Syd Howe - Darryl Sittler - Odie Cleghorn, Flash Hollett

PK1: Derek Sanderson - Bob Nystrom, Denis potvin- Butch Bouchard

PK2: Edgar Laprade - , Brad McCrimmon - Jamie Macoun

What do you guys think?
I think the even strength lines are set up well, though I'm not sure if Naslund and Nystrom bring enough defense for the third line to really be a shut down line.

As for special teams:

I think Butch Bouchard would be a weak spot on a 2nd PP unit. He has absolutely no business on a 1st PP unit. He also can't handle the minutes that Potvin can. Flash Hollett, on the other hand is made for the PP. I'm honestly not sure what to do about the points on the 2nd PP unit since none of Bouchard, McCrimmon, or Macoun was particularly good offensively. The forwards are fine.

Unless I'm thinking of someone else, Bob Nystrom almost never killed penalties in real life and should not be on an ATD PK. The rest of the PK is well set up.

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Old
03-06-2013, 02:30 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think the even strength lines are set up well, though I'm not sure if Naslund and Nystrom bring enough defense for the third line to really be a shut down line.

As for special teams:

I think Butch Bouchard would be a weak spot on a 2nd PP unit. He has absolutely no business on a 1st PP unit. He also can't handle the minutes that Potvin can. Flash Hollett, on the other hand is made for the PP. I'm honestly not sure what to do about the points on the 2nd PP unit since none of Bouchard, McCrimmon, or Macoun was particularly good offensively. The forwards are fine.

Unless I'm thinking of someone else, Bob Nystrom almost never killed penalties in real life and should not be on an ATD PK. The rest of the PK is well set up.
Yea special teams are not really set I still have a defenseman and a 2 forwards to draft.

3rd line is built for 2-way play and not as a primary shutdown line.

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Old
03-06-2013, 07:32 AM
  #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
Markus Näslund - Peter Forsberg - Odie Cleghorn
Syd Howe - Darryl Sittler - Dino Ciccarelli
Mats Näslund - Edgar Laprade - Bob Nystrom
- Derek Sanderson -

Denis Potvin - Butch Bouchard
Brad McCrimmon - Flash Hollett
Jamie Macoun -

Martin Brodeur

PP1: Markus Näslund - Peter Forsberg - Dino Ciccarelli, Denis Potvin - Butch Bouchard

PP2: Syd Howe - Darryl Sittler - Odie Cleghorn, Flash Hollett

PK1: Derek Sanderson - Bob Nystrom, Denis potvin- Butch Bouchard

PK2: Edgar Laprade - , Brad McCrimmon - Jamie Macoun

What do you guys think?
I think Syd Howe should be able to handle a larger role on special teams. It should be no problem if he's such a smart, versatile player. I don't know his real life usage but would consider him as a forward on the PK and on the point of the PP. Basically the Alex Delvecchio usage pattern.

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Old
03-06-2013, 06:27 PM
  #315
ck26
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I'll subject my first three lines to this ...

Bill Barber - Newsy Lalonde - Lanny McDonald
Jere Lehtinen - Frank McGee - Blair Russel
Kris Draper - Rick MacLeish - Terry O'Reilly

Two big scoring centers and a two-way guy in MacLeish, with 5 two-way wingers and a pure grinder (Draper). The third line isn't a prototypical shutdown checking line, but having Larry Robinson/Rod Langway on the blue line should give us the ability to compensate against a huge scoring line.

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03-06-2013, 06:35 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by ck26 View Post
I'll subject my first three lines to this ...

Bill Barber - Newsy Lalonde - Lanny McDonald
Jere Lehtinen - Frank McGee - Blair Russel
Kris Draper - Rick MacLeish - Terry O'Reilly

Two big scoring centers and a two-way guy in MacLeish, with 5 two-way wingers and a pure grinder (Draper). The third line isn't a prototypical shutdown checking line, but having Larry Robinson/Rod Langway on the blue line should give us the ability to compensate against a huge scoring line.
Ideally, you'd get some kind of playmaker to play next to Newsy Lalonde, but it might be too late for that now. Lalonde is a decent playmaker, but he was better known as a goal scorer.

Lehtinen is a great defensive player who can chip in goals and Russel was a strong defensive player too, but the 2nd line is really going to rely a lot of McGee to carry the offense.

Kris Draper really needs to be a 4th line center, not a wing in the top 9.

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03-07-2013, 03:45 PM
  #317
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Just drafted Jonathan Toews, was wondering how he would look on my power play point or as a centre of my 2 power play units?

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03-07-2013, 03:50 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Just drafted Jonathan Toews, was wondering how he would look on my power play point or as a centre of my 2 power play units?
Keep him away from anything to do with offense. His offense is pretty pathetic for this level.

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03-07-2013, 04:05 PM
  #319
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Keep him away from anything to do with offense. His offense is pretty pathetic for this level.
We were looking for him when we were looking for a 3rd line C, and I did end up thinking we had a terrible offensive resume for the ATD. A good 4th liner with loads of intangible, that can probably patrol a 2ndPK unit. I don't think at this point in his career you can ask him much more.

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03-07-2013, 04:10 PM
  #320
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We were looking for him when we were looking for a 3rd line C, and I did end up thinking we had a terrible offensive resume for the ATD. A good 4th liner with loads of intangible, that can probably patrol a 2ndPK unit. I don't think at this point in his career you can ask him much more.
That's probably what I'll do with him. Thought his playmaking skills might garner him some time as a point man on my 2nd power play.

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03-07-2013, 10:04 PM
  #321
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That's probably what I'll do with him. Thought his playmaking skills might garner him some time as a point man on my 2nd power play.
Well, he's got only 3 seasons of above 50% Vs2 in assists, and the best one is 65%, I'd say his offense would be very underwhelming for an ATD power play, especially for a center.

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03-09-2013, 12:48 PM
  #322
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How should I do my special teams?

Roy Conacher - Alex Delvecchio - Maurice Richard
Vic Hadfield - Dave Keon - Ed Litzenberger
Don Marshall - Pit Lepine - Floyd Curry

Eric Desjardins - Dit Clapper
Jean-Guy Talbot - Jimmy Watson
Lars-Erik Sjöberg - Juri Bubla

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03-09-2013, 01:58 PM
  #323
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How should I do my special teams?

Roy Conacher - Alex Delvecchio - Maurice Richard
Vic Hadfield - Dave Keon - Ed Litzenberger
Don Marshall - Pit Lepine - Floyd Curry

Eric Desjardins - Dit Clapper
Jean-Guy Talbot - Jimmy Watson
Lars-Erik Sjöberg - Juri Bubla
Your first line should go on the first PP.

Your second PP is going to be very weak - I really don't see any good choices there past Litzenberger. I guess Keon is your next choice by default, but I think you could really stand to draft more PP forwards.

Delveccho would be the best choice for a PP point man, but with the emphasis on defensive-minded centers otherwise, you really need him up from. I guess Desjardins-Clapper and Talbot - Bubla/Sjoberg will have to do, but that's pretty weak.

If your PP is weak, your PK should be quite strong. Keon, Lepine, and Marshall are elite PK forwards. Delvecchio would be a good choice here, but he's already seeing a lot of minutes on first line/first PP, so he probably shouldn't be on a top PK unit. I don't know if Curry PKed or if he was more of an even strength specialist.

Clapper-Watson is a good first PK pair. Anyone but Bubla could probably go on the second PK pair.

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03-09-2013, 02:04 PM
  #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmm View Post
How should I do my special teams?

Roy Conacher - Alex Delvecchio - Maurice Richard
Vic Hadfield - Dave Keon - Ed Litzenberger
Don Marshall - Pit Lepine - Floyd Curry

Eric Desjardins - Dit Clapper
Jean-Guy Talbot - Jimmy Watson
Lars-Erik Sjöberg - Juri Bubla
Your PP will be weak as you are missing a true PP center (usually you want Delvecchio on D)

As for PK its pretty strong

Keon - Marshall
Lepine - Delvecchio

or do the 3 line PK strategy with a two-way 3rd PK unit consisting of Delvecchio and maybe Richard or Litzenberger for a nice transition game at the end of PKs.

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03-09-2013, 02:51 PM
  #325
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Thanks and agreed to all to you both. I will keep this in mind when picking the rest of my team.

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