HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Winnipeg Jets
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Friesen article, "Lack of Heart"

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-14-2013, 11:06 AM
  #1
gretschdrum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 52
vCash: 500
Friesen article, "Lack of Heart"

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2013/02/1...art-transplant

I'm really surprised that this article hasn't been discussed here. I think it is 100% on target. It hits at the root of the issue and is the first thing that needs to be addressed for the Winnipeg franchise to succeed for the long term. This problem is completely obvious to those of us who watched this franchise falter in Atlanta. If I've heard that this team is "fragile" once, I've heard it a thousand times. It seems like no matter what name is on the back of the jersey, who's behind the bench, or what city they play in, the same things plague this franchise.

gretschdrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 11:10 AM
  #2
DespoticNewt
Registered User
 
DespoticNewt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,294
vCash: 50
I read that this morning. It makes some good points, even if I find Paul Friesen's prose to be obnoxious.

DespoticNewt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 11:15 AM
  #3
theamazingchris
#ScrapChevy
 
theamazingchris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 943
vCash: 500
Yawn. Your regular sportswriter hand-wringing. If I see "heart" or "character" or anything like it in the headline of an article, I'm getting an article free of real analysis. The Jets have problems. A vague "culture of losing" and "not working hard enough" are not even close to the right answers. They may play a part, but at the end of the day they're band-aids, simple excuses that sound plausible enough to convince someone who's not really paying attention.

theamazingchris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 11:21 AM
  #4
Guerzy
Serenity
 
Guerzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,562
vCash: 200
In my opinion he is bang on here, though.

Quote:
When everything’s going right — a raucous home crowd, a marquee opponent, electricity in the air — the Jets do what most any team could do: they play hard. With an edge. With heart.

Take one of those stimulants away, force this team to look within for motivation, it too often comes up empty.

Guerzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 11:23 AM
  #5
King Woodballs
MVP! MVP! MVP!
 
King Woodballs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Your Mind
Posts: 33,120
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zachy Goj View Post
In my opinion he is bang on here, though.
Which is sad when you think about.

You can't get motivated to play, changes need to be made.

Maybe it's the kick in the ass this team needs

King Woodballs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 11:26 AM
  #6
Tdoe42
Registered User
 
Tdoe42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 1,134
vCash: 500
Ive made a life choice not to read anything from the sun... Except Ken Wiebe he is trapped in sports writer purgatory

Tdoe42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 11:34 AM
  #7
Guerzy
Serenity
 
Guerzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,562
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
Which is sad when you think about.

You can't get motivated to play, changes need to be made.

Maybe it's the kick in the ass this team needs

Agree. I think we show up for most games, but I just don't see us as a group collectively doing what it takes and giving it all we got. Is it the players? Is it the coaches? Is it simply our lack of goaltending?... I don't know.

We're going to have to just sit tight here. I'll tell ya what though, as someone who has been all in for this "core", if they cannot get it together in the next month as we hit 9 of 11 on the road, I could honestly care less who is dealt aside from a VERY select couple. Little, fine. Wheeler, fine. Trade them in a good hockey trade if a deal is there to be made. If Pavelec cannot get his game on track, bring in a young goaltender with no. 1 potential whether it be Neuvirth or Bishop and let him split the games, take away Pavelec's "clear cut no. 1 goalie title" and if the new goaltender wins or plays well, sit Pavelec for however long the new tender is doing well.

My point is, if the group cannot shake this mindset of playing on the road and collectively looking like last years team as a whole here - i'll be all hands on deck for changing the room up in a bold area or two.

Guerzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 11:39 AM
  #8
GrandChelems
Registered User
 
GrandChelems's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,812
vCash: 500
If it's true, then like Friesen says, it goes all the way to the top. Why sign all these guys up in the first place if they're not the right group?

GrandChelems is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 11:49 AM
  #9
King Woodballs
MVP! MVP! MVP!
 
King Woodballs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Your Mind
Posts: 33,120
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zachy Goj View Post
Agree. I think we show up for most games, but I just don't see us as a group collectively doing what it takes and giving it all we got. Is it the players? Is it the coaches? Is it simply our lack of goaltending?... I don't know.

We're going to have to just sit tight here. I'll tell ya what though, as someone who has been all in for this "core", if they cannot get it together in the next month as we hit 9 of 11 on the road, I could honestly care less who is dealt aside from a VERY select couple. Little, fine. Wheeler, fine. Trade them in a good hockey trade if a deal is there to be made. If Pavelec cannot get his game on track, bring in a young goaltender with no. 1 potential whether it be Neuvirth or Bishop and let him split the games, take away Pavelec's "clear cut no. 1 goalie title" and if the new goaltender wins or plays well, sit Pavelec for however long the new tender is doing well.

My point is, if the group cannot shake this mindset of playing on the road and collectively looking like last years team as a whole here - i'll be all hands on deck for changing the room up in a bold area or two.

Absolutley.

I have been a supporter of this core, and thought that they should be good enough.
I still think they could be, but almost everyone appears (at least to me) to have the "meh" attitude, almost like they just don't care.

I dont want to see Kane go, or Wheeler go, or Ladd go...
But the attitude needs a major adjustment imo.

My stance has been changing to trade anyone at any point, as long as it makes sense, and improves this hockey team.
On the ice and in the dressing room.

King Woodballs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 12:29 PM
  #10
Snot Rocket
HF anti-tank squad
 
Snot Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 814
vCash: 1316
I think that heart might not be the issue; it is the lack of team cohesion that is killing them.
Guys are going out there stressed and under pressure to succeed, trying to do it all themselves.
It's like the moment Kane, Ladd, Burmi, Wheels et al have the puck hit their stick, they start trying too hard, and the rest of the guys are all not on the same page...then someone else gets the puck, same thing, they are all out there crushing their sticks.
Scheifele was a perfect example of this. He was trying so hard to get it done that the moment the puck hit the tape he got a shot of adrenaline, his hockey IQ dipped and he would fan on the puck, shoot instead of taking the second to make one step for the open net or forcing a bad pass. Though we know he has the skill set to finish.
When the pressure is on for them to win a game that they should win, they start failing if things do not click immediately, and they try and ratchet it level of try up even further then collapse as a team.
Look at the PP...collapses.
They start forcing shots and passes, making poor decisions etc.

Buff is another example of this one man trying to do everything...though many times though his size and skill he is able to make a little magic. Last year he roamed too much as he saw there were problems up front and looked like he said "Screw it, I'm going to get this done myself." So he would get out of position, roam too much and force stuff. Seems they have been able to pull him back from that.
Ladd and Wheeler also are great examples. Ladd was trying to carry the team last year on the ice and off, and he ended up taking all sorts of bad penalties trying too hard to make things happen.
Wheels is in a slump, he is moving and skating, but not doing what he did last year which was work himself into the slot somewhere. If he had it open he would shoot, if not, he would work back out to the boards and drag a couple guys with him, dish the pass and we would have a good look.

This might explain why they are able to get it done with teams that they are expected to NOT win against. The expected pressure of the win is not there, instead they know they have to work it, so they slow down and play the system and suddenly they look great, they relax their grips, guys are clicking and all cylinders are go.

Ironically what would probably get these guys to gel (I have said it before) is to make it to playoffs. They would be expected not to win, be the underdogs and I suspect they might find some of that winning culture that coach is talking about.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I played on a soccer team like this. We would barely squeak into playoffs. In playoffs we would click and start playing as a team, going deep, going to the finals and even winning city a few times...happened almost every year.

Wow that was a novel.

Snot Rocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 12:36 PM
  #11
truck
HFB Partner
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,105
vCash: 500
IMO blaming it on a "Lack of Heart" shows a lack of smart.

Heart has nothing to do with when your powerplay and penalty kill work. No team controls the when, they control the how often.

truck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 12:45 PM
  #12
pondnorth
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,174
vCash: 500
Paul Friesen is a moron who feeds his negative crap whenever the home team has problems.He does this because his hockey knowledge comes from timbit hockey.The guy is a joke and i`m surprised people here are being sucked into his bs.When the home team wins a few games Paul suddenly disappears for a few days but as soon as things don`t go right Paul is there to remind everyone with his storybook writing.The Sun is a terrible paper and Paul is a big dbag.

pondnorth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 12:47 PM
  #13
Bob E
Registered User
 
Bob E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Winnerpeg
Posts: 3,968
vCash: 500
I think its your 'skill' guys that have to show heart, or the ability to fight through adversity. When 'your best players are your best players' teams tend to do well.

Jets get solid efforts from the Stuarts, the thorbs, the slaters in the line-up, but not from the guys who are supposed to score or lead. Looking at you Olli, Wheeler, Little, Buff, Ladd and Kane. Consistent effort from those guys, game in and game out, would improve things. At least somewhat.

Bob E is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 01:04 PM
  #14
sipowicz
The Original
 
sipowicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,521
vCash: 200
Good article, bang on I quoted part of it in another thread without realizing there was a thread created about it. I think we are seeing the beginning of the Winnipeg media openly questioning Chevy's moves this was just the start. Sure Chevy inherited a threadbare roster from Atlanta that had some quality players but aside from his luck in drafting Trouba what has Chevy done to make this team better in his tenure?

sipowicz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 01:12 PM
  #15
Sweech
COYS!
 
Sweech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,774
vCash: 2252
Yeah, I don't fully buy it. Just seems like some more "what have you done for me lately?" That the Press produces and fans buy.

Some of our only wins this season have come from being down 2 goals. I think winning those games shows "heart", or whatever you want to call it. I'm pretty sure after those wins I saw articles on "how much 'heart' we had". I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now. Play poorly you often lose, play well you often win. Seems like Friesen is just trying to make money from writing an article based entirely off hockey vernacular.

Me, I see it as a lack of execution. Our special teams have been quite poor and our goaltending has left something to be desired. I don't really know how much "heart" has to do with either of those.

Sweech is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 01:13 PM
  #16
gretschdrum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 52
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
IMO blaming it on a "Lack of Heart" shows a lack of smart.

Heart has nothing to do with when your powerplay and penalty kill work. No team controls the when, they control the how often.
Really? So these robots skate out there and play with machine like consistency every night, huh? Their "how often" is controlled by their implanted chips which just happens to be beaten sometimes (more often than not) by the other team's "how often". Not quite. Something has to control the "how often", the consistency, the desire, the will, the heart. It's all similar concepts, just different names. This team does NOT have IT. So far, this franchise does not have it (whether in Atlanta or Winnipeg).

Every single player and team has to have desire/heart to succeed consistently. That comes from the top down. A franchise must have total commitment to success through financial, intellectual, and interpersonal means. They then have to express that to their players and their fan base. Even then it's not guaranteed championships. But that's where it needs to start. Anything less and you're building a house on a shaky foundation. Atlanta had NONE of the above.

gretschdrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 01:14 PM
  #17
Guerzy
Serenity
 
Guerzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,562
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Good article, bang on I quoted part of it in another thread without realizing there was a thread created about it. I think we are seeing the beginning of the Winnipeg media openly questioning Chevy's moves this was just the start. Sure Chevy inherited a threadbare roster from Atlanta that had some quality players but aside from his luck in drafting Trouba what has Chevy done to make this team better in his tenure?
For me, personally, it's a touch too early to answer that. Trades and signings, quality ones, aren't easy to make in this league. With that being said, results do matter, and in my opinion I will give Chevy this season + offseason to see what exactly he does or can do. If it's the same old song and dance with this team a year from now, or even to begin next season in October through December, i'll be questioning what exactly Kevin Cheveldayoff has or is doing to improve this hockey team on the ice. By year 3 he and management should know what this team is all about and what we need to do in order to maximize our results.

It's a tough call, really. I really liked our offseason acquisitions and just because we aren't playing well I can't possibly now say I did not like them. It is what it is. I thought Jokinen and Ponikarovsky would help this team turn the tide. I thought having a new year here and getting past all of the relocation stuff we may see an improved hockey team. I liked our forward depth heading into the season, I really liked it. I expected us to be a 7-8 playoff team.

It'll take some more observation time for me, but I will be able to look at Chevy's body of work a year from now and have a better grasp of what he has done to this roster to improve it. Right now however, for me, it's a bit too early.

Guerzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 01:18 PM
  #18
Brian Cadle Fan
Registered User
 
Brian Cadle Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 211
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondnorth View Post
Paul Friesen is a moron who feeds his negative crap whenever the home team has problems.He does this because his hockey knowledge comes from timbit hockey.The guy is a joke and i`m surprised people here are being sucked into his bs.When the home team wins a few games Paul suddenly disappears for a few days but as soon as things don`t go right Paul is there to remind everyone with his storybook writing.The Sun is a terrible paper and Paul is a big dbag.
You have a much higher opinion of PF than I do.

I agree with everything you said.

Brian Cadle Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 01:20 PM
  #19
Jet
Moderator
Stand by your man
 
Jet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Whipanegg
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,507
vCash: 50
I thought that article was more right than wrong. The Jets don't play like they are lazy, but they don't seem desperate to win. I was watching the Pens against the Sens last night and even though they got down, they looked DESPERATE to win. You could see it with the urgency to everything they did.

I do not see enough of that from the Winnipeg Jets.

__________________
The Olympic Line
Jet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 01:22 PM
  #20
truck
HFB Partner
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
I think its your 'skill' guys that have to show heart, or the ability to fight through adversity. When 'your best players are your best players' teams tend to do well.

Jets get solid efforts from the Stuarts, the thorbs, the slaters in the line-up, but not from the guys who are supposed to score or lead. Looking at you Olli, Wheeler, Little, Buff, Ladd and Kane. Consistent effort from those guys, game in and game out, would improve things. At least somewhat.
How does one differentiate between effort, talent and bad luck if they can all net the same result. I don't see a team that has quit on any game this year. They have had late game struggles, but I don't see quit.

truck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 01:31 PM
  #21
truck
HFB Partner
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gretschdrum View Post
Really? So these robots skate out there and play with machine like consistency every night, huh? Their "how often" is controlled by their implanted chips which just happens to be beaten sometimes (more often than not) by the other team's "how often". Not quite. Something has to control the "how often", the consistency, the desire, the will, the heart. It's all similar concepts, just different names. This team does NOT have IT. So far, this franchise does not have it (whether in Atlanta or Winnipeg).

Every single player and team has to have desire/heart to succeed consistently. That comes from the top down. A franchise must have total commitment to success through financial, intellectual, and interpersonal means. They then have to express that to their players and their fan base. Even then it's not guaranteed championships. But that's where it needs to start. Anything less and you're building a house on a shaky foundation. Atlanta had NONE of the above.
I didn't say heart doesn't exist, but I think it is beyond silly to make things a matter of heart for narrative purposes. Of course some players are more driven than others, but "heart" is a really really easy and lazy narrative that can be used without a shred of evidence.

Some times the players aren't good enough. Sometimes they are unlucky. It happens.


Not sure where you are going with the robot thing. Sometimes teams allows PK goals against because they got beat plain and simple. No amount of heart makes it impossible for the other team to score just like no amount of heart guarantees a goal for.

truck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 01:46 PM
  #22
gretschdrum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 52
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
I didn't say heart doesn't exist, but I think it is beyond silly to make things a matter of heart for narrative purposes. Of course some players are more driven than others, but "heart" is a really really easy and lazy narrative that can be used without a shred of evidence.

Some times the players aren't good enough. Sometimes they are unlucky. It happens.


Not sure where you are going with the robot thing. Sometimes teams allows PK goals against because they got beat plain and simple. No amount of heart makes it impossible for the other team to score just like no amount of heart guarantees a goal for.
Excellent points. Well taken! I completely agree with what you're saying.

But my point is that there are times when the team should not be fatigued, should not be flat, should not be outplayed, etc. but they show prolonged streaks of lack of effort, lack of smarts, and desire. There's a feeling of listlessness and despair. You can feel it. The fans feel it. The arena gets quiet or desperate. It's that negative intangible that the Jets/Thrashers possess that's attributed to a lack of heart. All teams can have this happen. I feel this franchise has it WAY more often than it should.

gretschdrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 02:05 PM
  #23
TroubaFan1
Registered User
 
TroubaFan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 895
vCash: 500
Paul Friesen loves writing articles like this one, he's been doing it for years with the Bombers. Im not worried about the teams heart just yet myself, but I can see what he is trying to get at with this article.

TroubaFan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 02:23 PM
  #24
sully1410
Registered User
 
sully1410's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Turner Valley, Alta.
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,301
vCash: 500
I think they didn't play with heart during the Tampa and Florida games. The rest of the losses that we had have been close losses. So to say that they don't play with heart, I think, is only a small part of the problem.

You can play with as much heart as you like, but if you aren't capitalizing on power plays and your PK sucks....heart will only get you so far.

sully1410 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2013, 03:04 PM
  #25
Brainstrained
Registered User
 
Brainstrained's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Northeastern Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 53
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by theamazingchris View Post
Yawn. Your regular sportswriter hand-wringing.
This pretty much sums it up for me, especially concerning the writer.

So much of what he writes is just filler that I have to wonder whether he lack heart for his job as a Jets beat writer.

Brainstrained is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:12 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.