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Old
02-15-2013, 01:05 PM
  #26
WingedWheel1987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
For god's sake, PLEASE do not call up the kid and not give him a FULL game on the powerplay.
How will Cleary and Gator play on the PP if Nyquist is there?

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02-15-2013, 01:18 PM
  #27
detredWINgs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPE123 View Post
"In 19 career NHL games with the Red Wings, Nyquist has one goal and six assists."

Compare that with Cleary
For the hell of it:

Hudler: 4 pts in first 19 career games, scored 7th point in 27th career game
Filppula: 4 pts in first 19 career games, scored 7th point in 33rd career game

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02-15-2013, 01:29 PM
  #28
SlavaKozlov
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
For god's sake, PLEASE do not call up the kid and not give him a FULL game on the powerplay.
In his one game, Nyquist played 2:41 on the PP. Filppula averages 3:20 PP minutes per game, and Cleary averages 3:07. Tatar has been averaging 1:47.

The one game Nyquist was called up, he was used on the powerplay, probably for the entire game, on the second unit. You probably didn't notice because he didn't do a whole lot with that time, like the rest of the Wings PP for this season.

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Old
02-15-2013, 01:43 PM
  #29
silkyjohnson50
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
It should be a no-brainer to use that line, when they already have good chemistry together.
I hope you're wrong, but wouldn't be surprised if you're not.

It's painfully obvious that Z and Pav could both use another player who can handle the puck in place of Abdelkader and especially Cleary. Insert Nyquist or Tatar. Babs doesn't seem to trust young skilled offensive players though, even if they're not bad defensively.

I don't know how he possibly handled a World Juniors team.

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02-15-2013, 01:43 PM
  #30
BinCookin
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So Bert likely out 1-2 weeks at least, but since he was already injured and Nyquist called up... means we have a NEW injury. Who fell in the shower? We need some kevlar socks and underwear for our boys so they stop getting injured LOL.

If its Z or D i will cry.

Some have suggested Flip, since he has looked a little hurting

But honestly it could be anyone, and since it was done today at noon, maybe its a practise injury, (likely a groin pull).

I know we all wish it was because they are putting cleary in the press box.. but that would just be unlikely.

Tatar or Nyquist should be on the top 2 lines (preferably both)

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02-15-2013, 01:45 PM
  #31
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51-13-11
11-40-24
21-63-11
20-25-11

Cleary sees ice time on every shift

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Old
02-15-2013, 01:45 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
For the hell of it:

Hudler: 4 pts in first 19 career games, scored 7th point in 27th career game
Filppula: 4 pts in first 19 career games, scored 7th point in 33rd career game
Exactly. You have to start somewhere, even good players. Just for the hell of it, Zetterberg had 8 points in his first 19 career games. And he was playing 16-17 minutes a night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlavaKozlov View Post
In his one game, Nyquist played 2:41 on the PP. Filppula averages 3:20 PP minutes per game, and Cleary averages 3:07. Tatar has been averaging 1:47.

The one game Nyquist was called up, he was used on the powerplay, probably for the entire game, on the second unit. You probably didn't notice because he didn't do a whole lot with that time, like the rest of the Wings PP for this season.
He was "benched" in the third period. Cleary, Fil, Smith and White on the 2nd unit played over 3 minutes on the PP that game.

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02-15-2013, 01:47 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
Tatar or Nyquist should be on the top 2 lines (preferably both)
Amen. I also want both guys to play with Z and D on the top 2 lines. If either or both are in the top 6, I just hope that Babcock can resist his natural urge to banish the young guys to the bottom 6 after 1 mediocre period. Give them some time to fit in and make some plays- they'd bring a lot more to the top 6 table than either Abby or Cleary.

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Old
02-15-2013, 01:51 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Brick Top View Post
Amen. I also want both guys to play with Z and D on the top 2 lines. If either or both are in the top 6, I just hope that Babcock can resist his natural urge to banish the young guys to the bottom 6 after 1 mediocre period. Give them some time to fit in and make some plays- they'd bring a lot more to the top 6 table than either Abby or Cleary.
honestly, even if they make the 3rd line

Tatar-Anderson-Nyquist

I am ok with it.

Because if that line does really well....

Either way, im cheering for Tatar and Nyquist to have big nights, even if its Miller and Eaves that have to set them up, or vica versa. Common 2-3 pt night each, FORCE KH and MB to keep you up and give you more playing time!!

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Old
02-15-2013, 01:59 PM
  #35
SlavaKozlov
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Exactly. You have to start somewhere, even good players. Just for the hell of it, Zetterberg had 8 points in his first 19 career games. And he was playing 16-17 minutes a night.



He was "benched" in the third period. Cleary, Fil, Smith and White on the 2nd unit played over 3 minutes on the PP that game.
I know the Wings in general weren't too great in that game, but he played almost 3 minutes on the powerplay and started on Datsyuk's line. Babcock gave him a chance to play some good minutes, play on the powerplay, etc... and he didn't do a lot with that opportunity. He did the same thing with Tatar, and Tatar actually looked better (IMO) with the 3rd line than he did on Datsyuk's line. Nyquist just wasn't very effective that one game and was easy to knock off the puck, from what I remember. He did generate one very good scoring chance, but he was invisible the rest of the game.

I get wanting to see the young guys and playing them is only going to give them the experience to improve, but at some point the coach has to take something that isn't working and make changes to get it going. Nyquist wasn't really working too well, as disappointing as it sounds to type it out, despite playing well and even getting into a playoff game last year. Hopefully he took the demotion and the "benching" and seeing Tatar/Andersson getting the next calls over him as an opportunity to have a better showing the next chance he is given. We'll see how he responds. As a rookie player who can pass freely between the AHL and NHL, he is owed nothing. Kreider is learning that with the NYR now, too.

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Old
02-15-2013, 02:05 PM
  #36
silkyjohnson50
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Originally Posted by SlavaKozlov View Post
I get wanting to see the young guys and playing them is only going to give them the experience to improve, but at some point the coach has to take something that isn't working and make changes to get it going.
Which is exactly what drives most of us nuts. He'll quickly demote one of the kids after a couple of periods, whereas a guy like Cleary if given a free pass. You can't tell me Nyquist and Tatar after 2 periods looked worse than Cleary has at any point this season.

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02-15-2013, 02:29 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by SlavaKozlov View Post
I know the Wings in general weren't too great in that game, but he played almost 3 minutes on the powerplay and started on Datsyuk's line. Babcock gave him a chance to play some good minutes, play on the powerplay, etc... and he didn't do a lot with that opportunity. He did the same thing with Tatar, and Tatar actually looked better (IMO) with the 3rd line than he did on Datsyuk's line. Nyquist just wasn't very effective that one game and was easy to knock off the puck, from what I remember. He did generate one very good scoring chance, but he was invisible the rest of the game.

I get wanting to see the young guys and playing them is only going to give them the experience to improve, but at some point the coach has to take something that isn't working and make changes to get it going. Nyquist wasn't really working too well, as disappointing as it sounds to type it out, despite playing well and even getting into a playoff game last year. Hopefully he took the demotion and the "benching" and seeing Tatar/Andersson getting the next calls over him as an opportunity to have a better showing the next chance he is given. We'll see how he responds. As a rookie player who can pass freely between the AHL and NHL, he is owed nothing. Kreider is learning that with the NYR now, too.
I know. Ideally he'd score a hattrick but it's an adjustment period. No matter how much you play in the AHL it can't compare with playing NHL games and learning the hard way. Imo, there's no such thing as not working out if you play a call-up one game here and there. There has to be at least a stretch of games like the one Tatar is seeing right now. And by all accounts, Tatar has looked more comfortable each game. You allow them to struggle, then you reap the rewards.

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Old
02-15-2013, 02:38 PM
  #38
SlavaKozlov
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Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
Which is exactly what drives most of us nuts. He'll quickly demote one of the kids after a couple of periods, whereas a guy like Cleary if given a free pass. You can't tell me Nyquist and Tatar after 2 periods looked worse than Cleary has at any point this season.
I won't disagree completely, but Cleary and Nyquist are also completely different players. Nyquist is a skill player who wants the puck and make plays. Cleary is more of a grinding player who is willing to go into corners and to the front of the net. If Babcock thinks the issue of Datsyuk's line is that the players on the ice aren't going to the net and making the opposing goalie's job hard, he will put players on the ice who can help do that.

For example, Nyquist was credited with 1 giveaway in his 1 game, Cleary is credited with 5 giveaways in 13 games. It makes sense, because skill players who like to handle the puck are more prone to giveaways than players who have puck less often, such as Datsyuk having 9, Kronwall having 7, Z having 6, etc...

Leaving Nyquist on the ice against tougher players to play against when he is being overmatched isn't helping much. Replacing him with Cleary causes other issues, though. If Nyquist was good at getting in shooting areas and putting pucks on the net, it would be a better matchup for Datsyuk and Filppula, but all 3 guys seem to like having the puck on their stick and passing. Maybe Babcock should split up Z and Brunner, who shoot the puck more than anyone else on the team, and shake up the lines that way to give Datsyuk a player who shoots more. Or put Franzen with Datsyuk (when he was healthy) so he could get more shots rather than playing with two guys who shoot a lot.

I agree that there should be other ways to help fix the lines than just replacing the young guy with Cleary, though, but leaving Nyquist/Tatar there isn't necessarily the best option when it isn't working.

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Old
02-15-2013, 02:40 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
I know. Ideally he'd score a hattrick but it's an adjustment period. No matter how much you play in the AHL it can't compare with playing NHL games and learning the hard way. Imo, there's no such thing as not working out if you play a call-up one game here and there. There has to be at least a stretch of games like the one Tatar is seeing right now. And by all accounts, Tatar has looked more comfortable each game. You allow them to struggle, then you reap the rewards.
You can let them struggle in a lesser role than playing them 20 minutes a game in the top 6 and 4 minutes a game on the PP, though.

Datsyuk's first line in the NHL was Dandenault - Datsyuk - Devereaux, and he proved he deserved to play more and with guys like Brett Hull.

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02-15-2013, 02:52 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by SlavaKozlov View Post
You can let them struggle in a lesser role than playing them 20 minutes a game in the top 6 and 4 minutes a game on the PP, though.

Datsyuk's first line in the NHL was Dandenault - Datsyuk - Devereaux, and he proved he deserved to play more and with guys like Brett Hull.
And I think that's fine. Nyquist or Tatar have not sniffed 20 minutes at any point. Tatar's career high is 14:15 and Nyquist's is 16:31. Even if in a top six role, you can reduce certain minutes similar to how Homer was often used. Like you say, this was the case with Pavel. As long as you don't take them out of the rotation and let them learn. That will benefit both them and the team when they are (likely) regulars next year.

Here's the game log for Pavel's first season http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id...eason=20012002 Took about 35 games to an upgraded role.

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Old
02-15-2013, 03:10 PM
  #41
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Keep him recalled. Keep him on the team he has proved himself in GR.

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02-15-2013, 03:42 PM
  #42
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We all know how this is going to go.

He'll play decent the first half of the game and then everyone will wonder what happened when Cleary takes his spot. Then he'll get sent back down.

Honestly they're taking a big risk when they keep messing with the kids' heads. I'm sure its not beneficial to their confidence.

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02-15-2013, 03:51 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
We all know how this is going to go.

He'll play decent the first half of the game and then everyone will wonder what happened when Cleary takes his spot. Then he'll get sent back down.

Honestly they're taking a big risk when they keep messing with the kids' heads. I'm sure its not beneficial to their confidence.
Agreed

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02-15-2013, 03:57 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
We all know how this is going to go.

He'll play decent the first half of the game and then everyone will wonder what happened when Cleary takes his spot. Then he'll get sent back down.

Honestly they're taking a big risk when they keep messing with the kids' heads. I'm sure its not beneficial to their confidence.
You mean this.



To your second point, Nyquist has not played as well since being sent down the last time in my opinion.

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02-15-2013, 04:11 PM
  #45
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Watch, Cleary will be moved up to a scoring line and Nyquist will play on the 4th.

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02-15-2013, 04:13 PM
  #46
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Watch, Cleary will be moved up to a scoring line and Nyquist will play on the 4th.
That is not moving up that is where he has been playing for the last little while now.

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02-15-2013, 04:16 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
To your second point, Nyquist has not played as well since being sent down the last time in my opinion.
Nyquist hasn't played as well since being split off from Tatar (which happened before the callup). It makes sense since they're both high hockey sense players, good skaters, and Tatar is a natural shooter to Nyquist's natural playmaker. Since then, Nyquist has been stuck with guys who are either not great skaters, not natural shooters, or just plain cannot keep up with him in terms of hockey sense. I think Nyquist is the kind of guy who will be better in the NHL than in the AHL.

I think without Tatar, Nyquist becomes the lone finesse skill guy on a team not particularly bent on playing a finesse skill game. The other, more obvious, reason is that teams know they can double team Nyquist now. With Nyquist shut down, GR doesn't really have anybody to blow the game open.

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02-15-2013, 04:19 PM
  #48
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With our bottom 6 playing better by the game it seems, playing down there wouldn't be all that bad. Granted, he should play with scoring forwards ahead of Cleary, but being with some energy guys like maybe Tatar, Tootoo, Miller?, etc. could be beneficial too. The guy has been a PPG player in the AHL last year and this season; he should be able to provide a little something regardless (kind of like Tatar has done so far, at least make your presence known).

...Unless he's with Abdelkader

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02-15-2013, 04:24 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
Nyquist hasn't played as well since being split off from Tatar (which happened before the callup). It makes sense since they're both high hockey sense players, good skaters, and Tatar is a natural shooter to Nyquist's natural playmaker. Since then, Nyquist has been stuck with guys who are either not great skaters, not natural shooters, or just plain cannot keep up with him in terms of hockey sense. I think Nyquist is the kind of guy who will be better in the NHL than in the AHL.

I think without Tatar, Nyquist becomes the lone finesse skill guy on a team not particularly bent on playing a finesse skill game. The other, more obvious, reason is that teams know they can double team Nyquist now. With Nyquist shut down, GR doesn't really have anybody to blow the game open.
It isn't like he has been terrible, just pointing out there was a reason Tatar went up ahead of him the second time around. Andersson was a big body callup and the wrong one although I am sure they want to know what they have with his options out after this year, still should have been Sheahan.

In any event agree with some of what he struggles with right now. He still is playing well down there just not like he was before the NHL came back. Just being honest about that and wonder if his confidence got dinged when he came up.

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Old
02-15-2013, 04:38 PM
  #50
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And here I was thinking there wouldn't be any more call-ups... though I suppose if there's more than one guy newly out and nobody else ready to come back, it's the only way to ice a team.

Welcome to the ice, everyone: YOUR Detroit Red Griffins!

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