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Trade Rumor Thread III: "Trade 40 goal scorer for picks= Cup contenders" edition

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Old
02-17-2013, 11:07 AM
  #526
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Because you need to decide on the buyout before you can sign Getzlaf (unless you're trading for him and signing him before July 1). Buying out Richards and failing to sign Getzlaf leaves this team in a significantly weaker position. In fact, I'd be more inclined to trade Gaborik around the draft, use Gaborik cap hit money to make an offer for Getzlaf if he hits July 1, and if you somehow get Getzlaf, still buyout Richards after the 2012-2013 season while shifting his cap space toward the wing.
I think the bolded is going to happen more often now that you're allowed to interview players before the UFA period begins.

Thinking that trading for O'Reilly and buying out Richards starts to put us more in the Bruins mold. No number one center, but two very solid number two centers. Not sure I see the need to sign Getzlaf in that scenario.

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02-17-2013, 11:10 AM
  #527
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It would be less about upgrading from Richards and Getzlaf, and more about eliminating any risk that Richards either (a) declines to the extent that his contract becomes an albatross or (b) retires prior to the end of his contract and the Rangers get screwed by the new CBAs cap hit benefit recapture formula.

The expectation that we may need to buyout Richards in the next two years even if he does not decline is the only reason I'd even consider moving Del Zotto for O'Reilly+.
No, I get it. From a hockey/fan standpoint I get it... but do you think Dolan wants to agree to paying Richards 60 million dollars for 2 years of hockey, then turn around and give Getzlaf 60 million on top of it? I highly doubt it... Again, we are assuming Getzlaf would sign here...

Here's a better option though... Richards deal is 60 million over 9 years. He gets 24 million in the first 2 years. so you're looking at 36 million over the remaining 7 years. For a cap team like the Rangers - this cap hit is averaged and could potentially be very restrictive to other hockey moves...

To a team like the Isles who have trouble reaching the cap floor (see, Thomas, Tim) and attracting UFA's he could be a major asset. You get a legit center behind Tavares, you get a cap hit whose full value you aren't paying, and you reach that floor.

I'm not sold that Richards doesn't have trade value in the future assuming he remains productive (slow start not withstanding) ...


If Sather could get someone to take Gomez... then you can't say that this is impossible... Richards is a far superior player.


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02-17-2013, 11:12 AM
  #528
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Here's a better option though... Richards deal is 60 million over 9 years. He gets 24 million in the first 2 years. so you're looking at 36 million over the remaining 7 years. For a cap team like the Rangers - this cap hit is averaged and could potentially be very restrictive to other hockey moves...

To a team like the Isles who have trouble reaching the cap floor (see, Thomas, Tim) and attracting UFA's he could be a major asset. You get a legit center behind Tavares, you get a cap hit whose full value you aren't paying, and you reach that floor.

I'm not sold that Richards doesn't have trade value in the future assuming he remains productive (slow start not withstanding) ...
His full NMC will make that scenario a lot tougher. Not impossible, but tougher - especially as most teams that would be interested in Richards for cap purposes are teams he would not be likely to waive for.

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02-17-2013, 11:15 AM
  #529
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No, I get it. From a hockey/fan standpoint I get it... but do you think Dolan wants to agree to paying Richards 60 million dollars for 2 years of hockey, then turn around and give Getzlaf 60 million on top of it? I highly doubt it... Again, we are assuming Getzlaf would sign here...

Here's a better option though... Richards deal is 60 million over 9 years. He gets 24 million in the first 2 years. so you're looking at 36 million over the remaining 7 years. For a cap team like the Rangers - this cap hit is averaged and could potentially be very restrictive to other hockey moves...

To a team like the Isles who have trouble reaching the cap floor (see, Thomas, Tim) and attracting UFA's he could be a major asset. You get a legit center behind Tavares, you get a cap hit whose full value you aren't paying, and you reach that floor.

I'm not sold that Richards doesn't have trade value in the future assuming he remains productive (slow start not withstanding) ...
Honestly, I don't think Dolan would bat an eyelash at paying for Richards buyout. For all the justified reasons that exist to hate Dolan, his willingness to spend has never been one of them. The salary cap has deflated Dolan's expenditures on the NYR far below the level he would spend on them in its absence, and the buyout of Richards would be a small part of that difference.

EDIT: The problem with trading Richards is the risk that he retires when his salary drops to $1m during the last three years. Quite frankly, the new CBA screwed us, because that is a lot of dead cap space to eat, and therefore not even close to a better option, imo.

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02-17-2013, 11:16 AM
  #530
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
His full NMC will make that scenario a lot tougher. Not impossible, but tougher - especially as most teams that would be interested in Richards for cap purposes are teams he would not be likely to waive for.
I think they could find a team that would be interested. MY not get a ton back, but I bet they could get some good pieces.

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02-17-2013, 11:16 AM
  #531
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The Colorado Avalanche are no closer to a new deal with forward Ryan O'Reilly and as Adrian Dater of the Denver Post reports via Twitter, the club has no interest in trading him. Dater states that O'Reilly has numerous NHL clubs interested and are said to be calling the Avalanche to inquire about a possible deal. But the club remains firm on their desire to re-sign the 21-year-old rather than trade him away. O'Reilly is said to be seeking an annual payout of $5 million while the Avalanche are offering around $2.5 million. Recent holdouts P.K. Subban and Jamie Benn have signed with their respective clubs, the Montreal Canadiens and Dallas Stars and many around the hockey world feel that the clubs won the battle of the contract holdouts. This would not bode well for O'Reilly, who led the Avalanche in scoring last season.

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_r...uting-contract


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02-17-2013, 11:17 AM
  #532
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Honestly, I don't think Dolan would bat an eyelash at paying for Richards buyout. For all the justified reasons that exist to hate Dolan, his willingness to spend has never been one of them. The salary cap has deflated Dolan's expenditures on the NYR far below the level he would spend on them in its absence, and the buyout of Richards would be a small part of that difference.

EDIT: The problem with trading Richards is the risk that he retires when his salary hit drops to $1m. That is a lot of dead cap space to eat, and therefore not even close to a better option, imo.
I agree. I don't think Dolan would care, it's all about what Sather and Torts think of his play and who else is available.

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02-17-2013, 11:18 AM
  #533
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Ok take away trading Del Zotto for ROR, and just go by his contract wants alone. I admit I dont know as much about his play as others, but would you guys pay him 5M annually?

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02-17-2013, 11:20 AM
  #534
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
The Colorado Avalanche are no closer to a new deal with forward Ryan O'Reilly and as Adrian Dater of the Denver Post reports via Twitter, the club has no interest in trading him. Dater states that O'Reilly has numerous NHL clubs interested and are said to be calling the Avalanche to inquire about a possible deal. But the club remains firm on their desire to re-sign the 21-year-old rather than trade him away. O'Reilly is said to be seeking an annual payout of $5 million while the Avalanche are offering around $2.5 million. Recent holdouts P.K. Subban and Jamie Benn have signed with their respective clubs, the Montreal Canadiens and Dallas Stars and many around the hockey world feel that the clubs won the battle of the contract holdouts. This would not bode well for O'Reilly, who led the Avalanche in scoring last season.
ROR's agent came out and said that was not true. Also need a link.

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02-17-2013, 11:21 AM
  #535
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People didn't want to move MDZ in a package for Nash. MDZ for Nash? Absolutely.
I wouldn't have done it. Neither Nash or O'Reilly are worth DZ straight up in a trade.

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02-17-2013, 11:22 AM
  #536
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I'd be looking to possibly flip Stepan for a winger in a scenario like that.
Might as well trade Lundqvist and McDonagh while we're at it....

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02-17-2013, 11:24 AM
  #537
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Honestly, I don't think Dolan would bat an eyelash at paying for Richards buyout. For all the justified reasons that exist to hate Dolan, his willingness to spend has never been one of them. The salary cap has deflated Dolan's expenditures on the NYR far below the level he would spend on them in its absence, and the buyout of Richards would be a small part of that difference.

EDIT: The problem with trading Richards is the risk that he retires when his salary drops to $1m during the last three years. Quite frankly, the new CBA screwed us, because that is a lot of dead cap space to eat, and therefore not even close to a better option, imo.
You don't think he'd bat an eyelash at giving Richards 36 million dollars just to walk away? Directly after paying Redden X amount of dollars for almost zero production? This from the team who couldn't have dollar hot dog night or half price beer night as a thank you to fans for returning after the lockout?

I agree that Dolan will spend money - and I like him for it - but I think you're unrealistic that he's 'not batting an eyelash' to giving a guy half of his teams yearly salary for nothing... again...

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02-17-2013, 11:25 AM
  #538
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Might as well trade Lundqvist and McDonagh while we're at it....
See my follow up point.

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02-17-2013, 11:27 AM
  #539
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Looks like the talks have cooled for now anyway and we're getting all this after the fact.

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02-17-2013, 11:28 AM
  #540
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You don't think he'd bat an eyelash at giving Richards 36 million dollars just to walk away? Directly after paying Redden X amount of dollars for almost zero production? This from the team who couldn't have dollar hot dog night or half price beer night as a thank you to fans for returning after the lockout?

I agree that Dolan will spend money - and I like him for it - but I think you're unrealistic that he's 'not batting an eyelash' to giving a guy half of his teams yearly salary for nothing... again...
Dolan cares about winning and making money. He will spend money if he is told that it will help him win. Paying Redden to not play in the NHL was in an effort to help the team win. Buying out Holik/Drury, another effort to help the team win.

Discounting hot dogs or beer does not come with the expectation that it will help his team win. Nor does it help him make money, because he knows the arena will be sold out regardless of hot dog/beer promotions.

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02-17-2013, 11:28 AM
  #541
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Looks like the talks have cooled for now anyway and we're getting all this after the fact.
maybe it'll end up like the Nash situation all over again.

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02-17-2013, 11:28 AM
  #542
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
The Colorado Avalanche are no closer to a new deal with forward Ryan O'Reilly and as Adrian Dater of the Denver Post reports via Twitter, the club has no interest in trading him. Dater states that O'Reilly has numerous NHL clubs interested and are said to be calling the Avalanche to inquire about a possible deal. But the club remains firm on their desire to re-sign the 21-year-old rather than trade him away. O'Reilly is said to be seeking an annual payout of $5 million while the Avalanche are offering around $2.5 million. Recent holdouts P.K. Subban and Jamie Benn have signed with their respective clubs, the Montreal Canadiens and Dallas Stars and many around the hockey world feel that the clubs won the battle of the contract holdouts. This would not bode well for O'Reilly, who led the Avalanche in scoring last season.

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_r...uting-contract
In Jamie Benn's case, the Stars upped their initial offers. Not sure about Subban.

I hate when people report on this, because everyone comes out and says "how could X player want so much? Doesn't he realize he isn't worth that much?" Meanwhile, the player is asking for that contract as a negotiation point. What he wants is actually somewhere between what the team has offered ($2.5m) and what he's requested ($5.0m). So likely around $3.75-$4m. ROR is refusing to budge as long as the Avalanche are refusing to budge.

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02-17-2013, 11:29 AM
  #543
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I wouldn't have done it. Neither Nash or O'Reilly are worth DZ straight up in a trade.
MDZ is more valuable than Rick Nash? They didn't have to move him because of their leverage in the situation, but Rick Nash - the former #1 overall pick, Rocket Richard winner, perennial All Star and one of the premier goal scorers of his generation isn't worth MDZ...?

The 'homegrown talent homer of the year' award goes to....

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02-17-2013, 11:32 AM
  #544
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Honestly, I think Colorado still expects O'Reilly to buckle. Keep in mind he started as an 18 year old in the NHL. That means that if he sits out the entire season, he pushes himself a year further away from UFA. Right now he can become a UFA at 25; without this year of service, his UFA age becomes 26.

Posturing on both sides will be very interesting over the next month and a half until the trade deadline if he is not moved beforehand.

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02-17-2013, 11:37 AM
  #545
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MDZ is more valuable than Rick Nash? They didn't have to move him because of their leverage in the situation, but Rick Nash - the former #1 overall pick, Rocket Richard winner, perennial All Star and one of the premier goal scorers of his generation isn't worth MDZ...?

The 'homegrown talent homer of the year' award goes to....
I was in favor of trading Del Zotto for Nash because we NEEDED him.

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02-17-2013, 11:39 AM
  #546
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MDZ is more valuable than Rick Nash? They didn't have to move him because of their leverage in the situation, but Rick Nash - the former #1 overall pick, Rocket Richard winner, perennial All Star and one of the premier goal scorers of his generation isn't worth MDZ...?

The 'homegrown talent homer of the year' award goes to....
Yeah, Nash's contract is an albatross. Not worth DZ at 2.5m per on the short term.

If you look at similar stars moved (Hossa, Heatley), neither warranted the return of a 2-way top 4 young proven D-man.

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02-17-2013, 11:40 AM
  #547
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Honestly, I think Colorado still expects O'Reilly to buckle. Keep in mind he started as an 18 year old in the NHL. That means that if he sits out the entire season, he pushes himself a year further away from UFA. Right now he can become a UFA at 25; without this year of service, his UFA age becomes 26.

Posturing on both sides will be very interesting over the next month and a half until the trade deadline if he is not moved beforehand.
I dont see anyway he's moved before the trade deadline, and if they do an offer sheet (whoever), I think Colorado would just match.

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02-17-2013, 11:40 AM
  #548
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The Colorado Avalanche are no closer to a new deal with forward Ryan O'Reilly and as Adrian Dater of the Denver Post reports via Twitter, the club has no interest in trading him. Dater states that O'Reilly has numerous NHL clubs interested and are said to be calling the Avalanche to inquire about a possible deal. But the club remains firm on their desire to re-sign the 21-year-old rather than trade him away. O'Reilly is said to be seeking an annual payout of $5 million while the Avalanche are offering around $2.5 million. Recent holdouts P.K. Subban and Jamie Benn have signed with their respective clubs, the Montreal Canadiens and Dallas Stars and many around the hockey world feel that the clubs won the battle of the contract holdouts. This would not bode well for O'Reilly, who led the Avalanche in scoring last season.

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_r...uting-contract
ROR's agent came out the other day and said that this was false, but he did say that term was as important as the yearly number... I could speculate on what I think that may mean, but who knows. The link was 4-5 pages back, and I don't feel like searching for it.

I understand your difference of opinion, but I would be all over this trade if the NYR's can get a defenseman included who is capable of playing 15+ minutes a night. I think Stralman's strong play has opened this up as a possibility. When all is said and done I just feel like ROR has the ability to hit at a level above MDZ. Strong defensemen (strong, not franchise player caliber) are hard to find - top line, two way centers are even harder.

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02-17-2013, 11:40 AM
  #549
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The Rangers have one more amnesty buyout to use by June 2014. Richards will have $27M remaining on his contract after 13-14. $18M is 2/3. 6 years left. Twice the term. $1.5M per for the next 12 years. That is not putting a dent in the Garden finances. Richards receives a nice annuity. Richards gets $33M in the first 3 years. He gets $51M out of the $60M.

The Rangers should bring O'Reilly into New York if they haven't done so already. Give him a physical. He was banged up a little playing in the KHL. Ask him about what happened in Colorado. See how much money he really wants.

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02-17-2013, 11:42 AM
  #550
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ROR's agent came out the other day and said that this was false, but he did say that term was as important as the yearly number... I could speculate on what I think that may mean, but who knows. The link was 4-5 pages back, and I don't feel like searching for it.

I understand your difference of opinion, but I would be all over this trade if the NYR's can get a defenseman included who is capable of playing 15+ minutes a night. I think Stralman's strong play has opened this up as a possibility. When all is said and done I just feel like ROR has the ability to hit at a level above MDZ. Strong defensemen (strong, not franchise player caliber) are hard to find - top line, two way centers are even harder.
Thats the problem, what defensemen outside of EJ do the Avs have that CAN give us 15 minutes a night without being a detriment?

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