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ATD 2013 Draft Draft Thread IV

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Old
02-19-2013, 09:45 AM
  #301
BraveCanadian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Holy mackerel, Tim Kerr was still available? He was our #2 choice behind Rick Martin at #233! Excellent value here Bubba! John Leclair-lite. I think Kerr should be comfortably taken in the mid-200's and even a bit higher if you crave his skillset.
There are a glut of good forwards available right now.

All of them are flawed in one dimension or another but still steals at this point because of the run on defensemen.

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Old
02-19-2013, 09:46 AM
  #302
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Really good pick with Kerr. I had thought of picking him when I picked Bondra. Kerr's injury concerns stopped me from picking him but when healthy he's as good a goal scorer as you could get.

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02-19-2013, 09:46 AM
  #303
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nanooks select coach Tommy Ivan.


lafleur's style of play was famously free-spirited, and he adapted very poorly to a defensive style of play, so i think i need a "players' coach" who gave his stars some latitude on the ice.


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Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
I agree. It seems in the ATD, notable negative traits get greatly exaggerated into making players hyper one-dimensional. It seems to me that when great players play with other great players on a consistent player, they become a lot less focused on doing things themselves. Given who Bure played with his entire career, being individualistic isn't really a surprise.
also agree

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Old
02-19-2013, 10:10 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
Well, there's some holes I'd like to fill and the bodies I like will probably disappear before my next turn but I can't ignore this any longer....

This guy's value seems to be dropping with every draft, precipitously. He was a slow but big, an immovable rock, deadly within 10 feet of the goal. He was abused like a mofo but stood his ground, eventually it cut his career short but in his peak there wasn't many who could bang them in the net like he could, especially on the PP.

I may have to tactically re-assess my plans to find a CTR to feed him the puck and I may also re-unite him with Propp...... The Boston Mules select RW Tim Kerr.

Yeah Kerr is one of the top 5 net front presences on the PP in this thing I think, and probably a decent ES 2nd liner when it's all said and done. Also, a really random skill that he has is taking big faceoffs. He's really good at them because of how good his hands are. His five year goal scoring peak in this thing is among the best, but he pretty much has nothing else (both in style of play and in longevity)

I like the pick.

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Old
02-19-2013, 10:43 AM
  #305
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Yeah Kerr is one of the top 5 net front presences on the PP in this thing I think, and probably a decent ES 2nd liner when it's all said and done. Also, a really random skill that he has is taking big faceoffs. He's really good at them because of how good his hands are. His five year goal scoring peak in this thing is among the best, but he pretty much has nothing else (both in style of play and in longevity)

I like the pick.
Yeah, pretty much what I thought.....didn't know about his faceoff skills, that's a pleasant bonus.

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Old
02-19-2013, 10:52 AM
  #306
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Kerr was never underrated here before. He would go around 170-180 then 200-220 the past few drafts. I don't think he should have slipped THIS far, but GM's realized his flaws.

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02-19-2013, 11:07 AM
  #307
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It was Kerr or Gartner for me, I had to go with speed. Nice pick Bubs.

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02-19-2013, 12:44 PM
  #308
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Viking Maniacs selects Claude Lemieux.

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Old
02-19-2013, 01:10 PM
  #309
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Guys, I would love to select, but I havn't had a discussion with my co-GM in three days! (Well, I sent some PM, but he hasn't answered me yet). I'm very much set on who I want, but I need a confirmation that he agrees with the selection. As soon as he connect online, we will select

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02-19-2013, 01:34 PM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Viking Maniacs selects Claude Lemieux.
One of those guys that you love to hate but have to admit he was very good at what he did.....especially come playoff time.

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02-19-2013, 01:41 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Kerr was never underrated here before. He would go around 170-180 then 200-220 the past few drafts. I don't think he should have slipped THIS far, but GM's realized his flaws.
Given that the premier first tier/line wingers are all but exhausted you're going to have start tailoring the rest of team around their flaws and I know the longevity and one-dimensionality is going to be discussed about Kerr, but used correctly he can be deadly.

Still, I'm amazed he dropped this far too.....I really thought he would've been selected somewhere in the last 40 or 50 picks.

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Old
02-19-2013, 01:49 PM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Holy mackerel, Tim Kerr was still available? He was our #2 choice behind Rick Martin at #233! Excellent value here Bubba! John Leclair-lite. I think Kerr should be comfortably taken in the mid-200's and even a bit higher if you crave his skillset.
John LeClair very light. The guy was not a particularly great even strength player. Kerr was getting really overrated here for a few drafts. I mean, he used to go over Dino Ciccarelli for some reason. IMO, this is a much better spot for Kerr than where he went for the last few drafts.

He's an awesome net presence on the PP though and as vecens said, the fact that he can take your PP faceoffs is a bonus.

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02-19-2013, 01:52 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
John LeClair very light. The guy was not a particularly great even strength player. Kerr was getting really overrated here for a few drafts. I mean, he used to go over Dino Ciccarelli for some reason. IMO, this is a much better spot for Kerr than where he went for the last few drafts.
I would say you split the difference between 210 and 340, and it's a nice spot for a guy with such unique skillset. Bubba have the incredible opportunity to place him on the 4th line at ES.

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Old
02-19-2013, 01:53 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I would say you split the difference between 220 and 340, and it's a nice spot for a guy with such unique skillset. Bubba have the incredible opportunity to place him on the 4th line at ES.
Yeah, I guess it's really hard to find a "proper" draft position for a "specialist" like Kerr - it really depends on team needs. For instance, he wouldn't be very useful on my team with Phil Esposito taking his long PP shifts.

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Old
02-19-2013, 01:53 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Guys, I would love to select, but I havn't had a discussion with my co-GM in three days! (Well, I sent some PM, but he hasn't answered me yet). I'm very much set on who I want, but I need a confirmation that he agrees with the selection. As soon as he connect online, we will select
Considering that you haven't heard from him in three days, waiting for his confirmation to pick seems a bit...questionable, though I know you won't go over your clock, at any rate.

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Old
02-19-2013, 01:58 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I would say you split the difference between 210 and 340, and it's a nice spot for a guy with such unique skillset. Bubba have the incredible opportunity to place him on the 4th line at ES.
I have him temporarily slotted on the 2nd line and dropped his old linemate Propp with him.....don't know where he'll be at the outcome other than on a PP unit for sure.

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Old
02-19-2013, 01:59 PM
  #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
John LeClair very light. The guy was not a particularly great even strength player. Kerr was getting really overrated here for a few drafts. I mean, he used to go over Dino Ciccarelli for some reason. IMO, this is a much better spot for Kerr than where he went for the last few drafts.

He's an awesome net presence on the PP though and as vecens said, the fact that he can take your PP faceoffs is a bonus.
This is a guy who once scored 45 even strength goals in a season.

Three times he was in the top 10 for even strength goals. (and better ones than Dino I might add)

How is he not a particularly great even strength player?

Tim Kerr just put the puck in the net, period.

I'm not saying he should move up a lot in the draft. I'm saying he is underrated because people keep pigeonholing any player who isn't a complete player in these drafts.

Similar to the Hull and Bure stuff up thread.

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Old
02-19-2013, 02:09 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
This is a guy who once scored 45 even strength goals in a season.
In the 1980s.

Quote:
Three times he was in the top 10 for even strength goals. (and better ones than Dino I might add)

How is he not a particularly great even strength player?

Tim Kerr just put the puck in the net, period.
And what are Kerr's even strength point finishes? Keeping in mind that he is slow as dirt, not that good defensively, and very injury prone. I hate ragging on Kerr, who is an elite specialist drafted at a time when it's proper for the elite specialists to go. But he went way too early for a few drafts there IMO and it's nice to see him fall back to about where he should go. He used to go WAY ahead of Dino, and I just don't understand that.

Quote:
I'm not saying he should move up a lot in the draft. I'm saying he is underrated because people keep pigeonholing any player who isn't a complete player in these drafts.

Similar to the Hull and Bure stuff up thread.
When people use stats to evaluate players, you complain. When people talk about a player's skills and strengths strengths and weaknesses, you complain. Is there any method of player evaluation that is proper in your opinion?

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Old
02-19-2013, 02:10 PM
  #319
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I know his older brother Reg. Hay played right wing in Senior hockey and the team won the Allan Cup. Eight year's later the younger brother George was playing with him on left wing when they won a pro league championship. I have the details of it in a book by Ron McAllister.

1. Perhaps someone is mixing up the Hay brothers. Reg. Hay definitely was a right winger in senior hockey and continued to be so when the local team turned pro. George joined his older brother's team and was playing left wing.
or
2. It is entirely possible that George had played RW for another senior team before joining his brother's great team, at which time he shifted to left wing.
or
3. Maybe the team had George on the second line RW in senior play.

More accounts of the past would be nice. For certain he was playing left wing in 1921. I'll provide book citation for that before the draft is over, if requested.

I am basing this entirely on the occational roster listings in old newspapers. It only lists the starting line or first line by position, and everyone else is just a sub.

I found nearly a dozen of those rosters from the 1921 and 1922 season. He was listed as a sub once - this was the only time Reg Hay also appeared on the roster, and he was also a sub. He was listed as a left winger once. The rest of the rosters all had him on right wing.

Like I said before, it doesn't matter to me, since we're using him on the left side regardless.

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Old
02-19-2013, 02:11 PM
  #320
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I have him temporarily slotted on the 2nd line and dropped his old linemate Propp with him.....don't know where he'll be at the outcome other than on a PP unit for sure.
I would keep Propp where he is & slot Kerr on the 4th line. That way Kerr can almost play the full 2 minutes on the PP.

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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
This is a guy who once scored 45 even strength goals in a season.

Three times he was in the top 10 for even strength goals. (and better ones than Dino I might add)

How is he not a particularly great even strength player?

Tim Kerr just put the puck in the net, period.

I'm not saying he should move up a lot in the draft. I'm saying he is underrated because people keep pigeonholing any player who isn't a complete player in these drafts.

Similar to the Hull and Bure stuff up thread.
Moving up from 340? Absolutely, and most people would agree with that. Each drafts some players falls for no descriptive reason. Moving up from his usual late 190's, early 200's spot? I would question that.

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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Considering that you haven't heard from him in three days, waiting for his confirmation to pick seems a bit...questionable, though I know you won't go over your clock, at any rate.
It's the first time I have a co-GM in the ATD, and we havn't made a single selection without both of us agreeing on a player. Also, I kinda what to deviate from the standard plan we had with a player I believe his just too good to pass on at this point. I don't know yet what he thinks of him. Rest assure that we won't use our full clock, and if I get no news in the next 2 hours I will make the selection. I think Dave will appreciate us to pick a player of this caliber that late in the draft.

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Old
02-19-2013, 02:15 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post

Moving up from 340? Absolutely, and most people would agree with that. Each drafts some players falls for no descriptive reason. Moving up from his usual late 190's, early 200's spot? I would question that.
Pretty sure that Kerr in the 190s and early 200s was only a recent development. This is about where he used to go, IIRC. Then HHH managed to sell Kerr hard (IMO, oversell him) in ATD2010, and he skyrocketed for two drafts (ATD2011 and 2012) before falling back to earth in this draft.

Anyway, enough ragging on Kerr. AT this point in the draft, it's probably a good strategy to draft his unique skillset over a more well-rounded player.

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Old
02-19-2013, 02:20 PM
  #322
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Pretty sure that Kerr in the 190s and early 200s was only a recent development. This is about where he used to go, IIRC. Then HHH managed to sell Kerr hard (IMO, oversell him) in ATD2010, and he skyrocketed for two drafts (ATD2011 and 2012) before falling back to earth in this draft.

Anyway, enough ragging on Kerr. AT this point in the draft, it's probably a good strategy to draft his unique skillset over a more well-rounded player.
I thought Tim Kerr was pretty much always taken from 190-to-240. I think at this point he's an excellent selection.

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02-19-2013, 02:23 PM
  #323
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I'm not really a big fan of Tim Kerr, but getting him this late in the draft is a great pick.

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02-19-2013, 02:27 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
In the 1980s.
If it makes you feel better it was a 2nd in the whole league behind a guy named Wayne Gretzky.

Quote:
And what are Kerr's even strength point finishes? Keeping in mind that he is slow as dirt, not that good defensively, and very injury prone. I hate ragging on Kerr, who is an elite specialist drafted at a time when it's proper for the elite specialists to go. But he went way too early for a few drafts there IMO and it's nice to see him fall back to about where he should go. He used to go WAY ahead of Dino, and I just don't understand that.
I don't know what his point finishes are and I don't really care. I didn't draft Kerr - I just happened to see him play.

The fact is that he was able to put the puck in at even strength at a top end level during his prime and therefore is not strictly a PP specialist.

Even if his even strength goal scoring may not be fantastic at this level it is better than some players being used in the top 6 as I already demonstrated.

I do certainly agree he shouldn't go way ahead of Dino.. Dino's longevity advantage is large.


Quote:
When people use stats to evaluate players, you complain. When people talk about a player's skills and strengths strengths and weaknesses, you complain. Is there any method of player evaluation that is proper in your opinion?
My problem is that around here it seems like the negatives seem to stick a lot more than the positives.

You're probably going to find that out double with Coffey.

Give these guys some credit where it is due.

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Old
02-19-2013, 02:27 PM
  #325
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The problem with Kerr is that he's capable of being an allright second liner if you build a line correctly around him, but he's not good enough to actually bother building around, so he's pretty much left as a specialist, ideally a 4th liner. I know it sounds harsh, but there are a couple other PP specialist forwards still out there who I think were just as good and valuable as Kerr.

He's a good selection at this spot, but I agree with TDMM that this is where Kerr belongs.

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