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Old
02-20-2013, 05:49 PM
  #101
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Am I the only one getting pm's from some Cooke fan jackhammer?
Congratulations. You have a Pittsburgh stalker.

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02-20-2013, 05:53 PM
  #102
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[QUOTE=RedWhiteBlackGold;60119379]Nobody is saying Cooke has no skill and is solely a goon like McGrattan and his counter parts.



As for your comment regarding Greening, you tell me one team in this league who would rather have Cooke's 38 points than Greening's 35 other than Pittsburgh. QUOTE]

By Melnyk suggesting that Cooke belongs in AA hockey and is a dime a dozen player and that is what he's worth, an educated guess would be that Melnyk is inferring that he has no skill and doesn't belong in the NHL.

I guess you've got the inside scoop on what Holland, Poile, Bergevin, Lamoriello, and the boys are thinking more than the average fan when you say that no team would want Cooke over Greening. I'll leave this one alone.

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02-20-2013, 05:58 PM
  #103
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[QUOTE=paul-laus;60119859]
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Originally Posted by RedWhiteBlackGold View Post
Nobody is saying Cooke has no skill and is solely a goon like McGrattan and his counter parts.



As for your comment regarding Greening, you tell me one team in this league who would rather have Cooke's 38 points than Greening's 35 other than Pittsburgh. QUOTE]

By Melnyk suggesting that Cooke belongs in AA hockey and is a dime a dozen player and that is what he's worth, an educated guess would be that Melnyk is inferring that he has no skill and doesn't belong in the NHL.

I guess you've got the inside scoop on what Holland, Poile, Bergevin, Lamoriello, and the boys are thinking more than the average fan when you say that no team would want Cooke over Greening. I'll leave this one alone.
You can quote me for all you want, where's the comments on Holland, Poile, Bergevin, Lamoriello that you are saying? Regardless if I am an average fan, how hard is it to think Cooke is 33 with a criminal track record in this league only putting up a career high of 38 points on a ref loved team, opposed to Greening who has a clean record and is 26 that put up 37 points.

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02-20-2013, 06:05 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by paul-laus View Post
Melnyk needs to be more responsible and conscientious as an owner with his comments and their detrimental effect.
Detrimental effect!? What detrimental effect? "More responsible"!? For what? What harm exactly has Matt Cooke suffered because of Eugene Melnyk sharing his opinion? He's still playing hockey, he's still earning a paycheque, and we all get to start a brand new "It's been ____ days since Matt Cooke injured a star player" calendar.

Can we PLEASE stop making poor old Matt Cooke out to be the victim in all of this? He's suffered what exactly? A loss of reputation? Please. Karlsson won't answer his texts? Boohoo. What did he expect?

Melnyk is allowed his opinion, just the same way you are. You don't like his opinion, that's alright, I'm pretty sure he doesn't like yours either.

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02-20-2013, 07:24 PM
  #105
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[QUOTE=RedWhiteBlackGold;60120143]
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Originally Posted by paul-laus View Post

You can quote me for all you want, where's the comments on Holland, Poile, Bergevin, Lamoriello that you are saying? Regardless if I am an average fan, how hard is it to think Cooke is 33 with a criminal track record in this league only putting up a career high of 38 points on a ref loved team, opposed to Greening who has a clean record and is 26 that put up 37 points.
Why are you making all-encompassing blanket statements in regards to what teams would want in one player vs. another? You're in the dark just as much as I am on this one. You can say all you want that all 30 nhl teams would take Greening over Cooke but the truth is you don't know that as fact. There's no comments or quotes suggesting that these above listed GM's would take Cooke over Greening but there's also nothing to the contrary either. You challenged me to come up with any team in the NHL that would take Cooke over Greening and I'm unable to do that just like you can't prove that it's an accurate observation.

As I said earlier, Cooke with limited ice time still puts up points, plays PK and once in a while the PP. He is well liked by his teamates, grinds d-men down, forechecks hard, and opposed to Greening, Cooke has ample experience in the playoffs where he can help a team. Perhaps you're right in assuming that all 30 NHL clubs would take Greening over Cooke but as stated earlier, if Cooke went on waivers tomorrow, 20 teams would probably attempt to pick him up. He's been dirty in the past and may not truly have change his game, but he's a solid contributor as well and has some miles left in the tank.

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02-20-2013, 07:29 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by The King of Town View Post
Detrimental effect!? What detrimental effect? "More responsible"!? For what? What harm exactly has Matt Cooke suffered because of Eugene Melnyk sharing his opinion? He's still playing hockey, he's still earning a paycheque, and we all get to start a brand new "It's been ____ days since Matt Cooke injured a star player" calendar.

Can we PLEASE stop making poor old Matt Cooke out to be the victim in all of this? He's suffered what exactly? A loss of reputation? Please. Karlsson won't answer his texts? Boohoo. What did he expect?

Melnyk is allowed his opinion, just the same way you are. You don't like his opinion, that's alright, I'm pretty sure he doesn't like yours either.
The detrimental effect that is directed towards your own players when you suggest an opposing player doesn't belong in the league and is a dime a dozen when that same player would rank 6th in scoring on your team. What does that say about your own team?

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02-20-2013, 07:52 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by paul-laus View Post
[
As I said earlier, Cooke with limited ice time still puts up points, plays PK and once in a while the PP. He is well liked by his teamates, grinds d-men down, forechecks hard, and opposed to Greening, Cooke has ample experience in the playoffs where he can help a team. Perhaps you're right in assuming that all 30 NHL clubs would take Greening over Cooke but as stated earlier, if Cooke went on waivers tomorrow, 20 teams would probably attempt to pick him up. He's been dirty in the past and may not truly have change his game, but he's a solid contributor as well and has some miles left in the tank.
And thats not all, he is man of many talents. He has been for years the dirtiest player and biggest head hunter in the league, having injured a long list of players and ending the career of several.

What a player!Who wouldn't want such a cheap shot artist on their team, really? No wonder you Pens fans are so proud of him.

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02-20-2013, 08:32 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by pepty View Post
And thats not all, he is man of many talents. He has been for years the dirtiest player and biggest head hunter in the league, having injured a long list of players and ending the career of several.

What a player!Who wouldn't want such a cheap shot artist on their team, really? No wonder you Pens fans are so proud of him.
I'm not a Penguins fan. I'd agree with you that he's dirty and has been the last few years. But don't make it seem like there's a littany of players who've had their careers ended by him. Marc Savard. That's it. And he hasn't offically retired yet although that's amost a guarantee. And now that I think of it, Savard played after that concussion and then got rocked by Hunwick again which effectively ended his career. Tyutin played the same game as did McDonaugh. Who else?

Kasparitis was dirty but effective as was Marchment, Ulf, Dale Hunter, Gary Suter, Kypreos, Tootoo and others. I'd even suggest that in recent years, Chris Simon, Raffi Torres, and Colby Armstrong have been downright filthy too. I'm not justifying or excusing Cooke's behaviour because it's been predatory and unnecessary far too often, but I think it's in poor taste for an owner to suggest that a player should be burried in the minors when said player is better than many players in the league including many on that owner's team.

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02-20-2013, 08:38 PM
  #109
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My my aren't we the sanctimonious one.

The funny thing is, the people who would muzzle NHL owners and players for speaking their minds are usually the first to cry foul when you tell them their own opinions are full of ****.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul-laus View Post
The detrimental effect that is directed towards your own players when you suggest an opposing player doesn't belong in the league and is a dime a dozen when that same player would rank 6th in scoring on your team. What does that say about your own team?
I don't think you know what that word means.

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Originally Posted by paul-laus
Who else?
Shean Donovan.


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02-20-2013, 08:42 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by paul-laus View Post
...
TLDR = Cooke hasn't ended anyone's career, so he's an angel, and Melnyk is a mean man.

If we wanted to know about Cooke, we could google it on top of already watching him play. But we don't care...

One (Melnyk) saved our franchise, the other (Cooke) through recklessness injured our franchise

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02-20-2013, 09:37 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by The King of Town View Post
Detrimental effect!? What detrimental effect? "More responsible"!? For what? What harm exactly has Matt Cooke suffered because of Eugene Melnyk sharing his opinion? He's still playing hockey, he's still earning a paycheque, and we all get to start a brand new "It's been ____ days since Matt Cooke injured a star player" calendar.

Can we PLEASE stop making poor old Matt Cooke out to be the victim in all of this? He's suffered what exactly? A loss of reputation? Please. Karlsson won't answer his texts? Boohoo. What did he expect?

Melnyk is allowed his opinion, just the same way you are. You don't like his opinion, that's alright, I'm pretty sure he doesn't like yours either.
Agree 100% with your post. Incredible how many people on here stick up for Cooke,....no matter what he does,...... isn't it? Wow!

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02-20-2013, 09:40 PM
  #112
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[QUOTE=paul-laus;60126825]
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Originally Posted by RedWhiteBlackGold View Post

Why are you making all-encompassing blanket statements in regards to what teams would want in one player vs. another? You're in the dark just as much as I am on this one. You can say all you want that all 30 nhl teams would take Greening over Cooke but the truth is you don't know that as fact. There's no comments or quotes suggesting that these above listed GM's would take Cooke over Greening but there's also nothing to the contrary either. You challenged me to come up with any team in the NHL that would take Cooke over Greening and I'm unable to do that just like you can't prove that it's an accurate observation.

As I said earlier, Cooke with limited ice time still puts up points, plays PK and once in a while the PP. He is well liked by his teamates, grinds d-men down, forechecks hard, and opposed to Greening, Cooke has ample experience in the playoffs where he can help a team. Perhaps you're right in assuming that all 30 NHL clubs would take Greening over Cooke but as stated earlier, if Cooke went on waivers tomorrow, 20 teams would probably attempt to pick him up. He's been dirty in the past and may not truly have change his game, but he's a solid contributor as well and has some miles left in the tank.
No chance 20 other teams would take him. His biggest fan, Pierre McGuire, may have said that,.....but what does he know? Some of his team-mates are okay with him(Cooke), some don't like him.

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02-20-2013, 09:44 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by paul-laus View Post
I'm not a Penguins fan. I'd agree with you that he's dirty and has been the last few years. But don't make it seem like there's a littany of players who've had their careers ended by him. Marc Savard. That's it. And he hasn't offically retired yet although that's amost a guarantee. And now that I think of it, Savard played after that concussion and then got rocked by Hunwick again which effectively ended his career. Tyutin played the same game as did McDonaugh. Who else?

Kasparitis was dirty but effective as was Marchment, Ulf, Dale Hunter, Gary Suter, Kypreos, Tootoo and others. I'd even suggest that in recent years, Chris Simon, Raffi Torres, and Colby Armstrong have been downright filthy too. I'm not justifying or excusing Cooke's behaviour because it's been predatory and unnecessary far too often, but I think it's in poor taste for an owner to suggest that a player should be burried in the minors when said player is better than many players in the league including many on that owner's team.
If you're not a Penguins fan,.....are you a Matt Cooke fan?

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02-20-2013, 10:30 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by The King of Town View Post
My my aren't we the sanctimonious one.

The funny thing is, the people who would muzzle NHL owners and players for speaking their minds are usually the first to cry foul when you tell them their own opinions are full of ****.

I have absolutely no issue with owners or players speaking their mind.....within reason. Melnyk wasn't reasonable. He anger was misdirected as he found an easy target who is a repeat behaviour. Cooke had no intentions of causing a 70% tear of Karlsson's achilles and effectively ending his season. But Melnyk went overboard calling into question another organization's personnel decisons when its none of his business. If another Owner suggested that Chris Neil headhunts and attempts to find players in vulnerable opponents and take advantage of it, Melnyk would have every right to be bitter.

I don't think you know what that word means.

Detrimental means causing harm. Hope that's sufficient for you. Like the harm an owner might cause players in his organization who are just starting their careers and finding their way. How could he be causing them harm? By claiming an opposing player belongs in the minors when that player ranks one place out of his team's top 5 scorers. Does that instill confidence in players like Condra, Greening, or Zack Smith. If Cooke belongs in AA hockey with 38 pts. Where does Eric Condra belong with his point total? It's an indirect and unintentional shot at some of his players. But a shot nonetheless.



Shean Donovan.
I'd venture a guess that Donovan's career was in its waning days when his knee was injured by Cooke and better quality rookies beat him out of a roster spot at the following training camp.

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02-20-2013, 10:37 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by jojacinto2 View Post
If you're not a Penguins fan,.....are you a Matt Cooke fan?
A fan of neither. But also not a fan of ridiculous comments made that have no basis like suggesting a player belongs in the CHL because players like him are a dime a dozen. John Scott=dime a dozen. 38 pt. player in Matt Cooke= 1 less point than a very valuable former Sen Chris Kelly notched for Boston.

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02-20-2013, 10:40 PM
  #116
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Shean Donovan.[/QUOTE]

To be fair, Cooke's knee on knee was for sure intentional on Donovan and a total cheap shot- no denying that.

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02-20-2013, 10:41 PM
  #117
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Why did a dime a dozen player take out the reigning Norris winner

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02-20-2013, 10:51 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
TLDR = Cooke hasn't ended anyone's career, so he's an angel, and Melnyk is a mean man.

If we wanted to know about Cooke, we could google it on top of already watching him play. But we don't care...

One (Melnyk) saved our franchise, the other (Cooke) through recklessness injured our franchise
I think you're completely missing my point. I don't think Cooke is an angel. He's cheap and dirty and has been suspended as such his last infractions. Does that make him a dime a dozen minor leaguer. Nope. Ottawa born and bred Matthew Barnaby (to nowhere near the extent) was cheap too but ultra valuable. Arguably the two dirtiest plays in the NHL in the last 25 years were McSorley on Brashear and Bertuzzi on Moore. Bertuzzi belongs in the minors due to that play? Doubt it. His creativity in shootouts are second to none and he makes mant of the Europeans on the wings better. Does the McSorley incident overshadow the rest of his career and make him a career minor leaguer? He played a lot of quality hockey beyond that.

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02-20-2013, 11:45 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by paul-laus View Post
I think you're completely missing my point. I don't think Cooke is an angel. He's cheap and dirty and has been suspended as such his last infractions. Does that make him a dime a dozen minor leaguer. Nope. Ottawa born and bred Matthew Barnaby (to nowhere near the extent) was cheap too but ultra valuable. Arguably the two dirtiest plays in the NHL in the last 25 years were McSorley on Brashear and Bertuzzi on Moore. Bertuzzi belongs in the minors due to that play? Doubt it. His creativity in shootouts are second to none and he makes mant of the Europeans on the wings better. Does the McSorley incident overshadow the rest of his career and make him a career minor leaguer? He played a lot of quality hockey beyond that.
Exactly.

Being dirty =/= being dime a dozen player, but I think Melnyk was just very frustrated so he just kept on ranting.

Also, I can't believe we're still having a debate about this. 99% of the league thought it was an accident and a freak play. (I thought that play was reckless, but not intentional.) Maybe some people should start thinking why they feel that way? Are they really being objective? Also, being mad now really accomplishes nothing, just like the rant by Melnyk. Instead, people are mocking this franchise.

I'm quite possibly the biggest Karlsson fan (okay, maybe... Sureves beats me in that category), but things happen. He's not the first star player to get hurt via a freak accident, and nor will he be the last.

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02-21-2013, 05:39 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by paul-laus View Post
I think you're completely missing my point. I don't think Cooke is an angel. He's cheap and dirty and has been suspended as such his last infractions. Does that make him a dime a dozen minor leaguer. Nope. Ottawa born and bred Matthew Barnaby (to nowhere near the extent) was cheap too but ultra valuable. Arguably the two dirtiest plays in the NHL in the last 25 years were McSorley on Brashear and Bertuzzi on Moore. Bertuzzi belongs in the minors due to that play? Doubt it. His creativity in shootouts are second to none and he makes mant of the Europeans on the wings better. Does the McSorley incident overshadow the rest of his career and make him a career minor leaguer? He played a lot of quality hockey beyond that.
So, Bertuzzi should be in the minors because of one play? Cooke has had 5 suspensions let alone dirty plays.

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02-21-2013, 06:56 AM
  #121
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I'd venture a guess that Donovan's career was in its waning days when his knee was injured by Cooke and better quality rookies beat him out of a roster spot at the following training camp.
If you have to "venture a guess", maybe you simply shouldn't speak about things you don't know a thing about. See how that works?

You can't whine about Melnyk voicing his opinions and then expect to be able to make stuff up in the same thread. Doesn't work that way.

As for the rest, either learn how to quote properly or don't do it. Don't add text to my quote making it look like I'm the one who wrote your nonsense.


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02-21-2013, 07:03 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by paul-laus View Post
Detrimental means causing harm. Hope that's sufficient for you. Like the harm an owner might cause players in his organization who are just starting their careers and finding their way. How could he be causing them harm? By claiming an opposing player belongs in the minors when that player ranks one place out of his team's top 5 scorers. Does that instill confidence in players like Condra, Greening, or Zack Smith. If Cooke belongs in AA hockey with 38 pts. Where does Eric Condra belong with his point total? It's an indirect and unintentional shot at some of his players. But a shot nonetheless.
You're projecting. Professional hockey players don't have the mental fortitude of a four year old. They're not going to read it as a "shot", and it's not going to "hurt their confidence", and they certainly don't need you to go on some web site to "defend" them.


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02-21-2013, 05:42 PM
  #123
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Sens will be killing LOTS of penalties tomorrow night, mark my words.
2 penalties for 4 minutes. Time to remove the tinfoil hat and cancel your Zapruder Film Festival. The NHL does not use refs to punish teams for off ice conduct.

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02-21-2013, 05:55 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by The King of Town View Post
You're projecting. Professional hockey players don't have the mental fortitude of a four year old. They're not going to read it as a "shot", and it's not going to "hurt their confidence", and they certainly don't need you to go on some web site to "defend" them.
I'm not offended at all by anything posters have sent my way in this thread and I even agreed with you that Cooke's hit on Donovan was dirty and unnecessary but suggested that the hit being a career finisher was a stretch but you seem to have personalized my stance as some attack directed at you so whatever. As for no one agreeing with me, all you need to do is go up about 6 posts and you see someone exercise the first bit of decorrum in some time when he agreed that people are misdirecting their anger at losing a franchise player at a an easy target.

Your stance towards Cooke= My stance towards Don McSween for doing the same thing to Selanne= so ridiculous its borderline embarssing.


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02-21-2013, 05:59 PM
  #125
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You've written a million words and all that you've said is you disagree with Melnyk's word about calling Cooke a dime a dozen player or should play in another league because Cooke has put up points like an NHLer. And we care why?

You are free to contact Melnyk yourself. We're not going to defend what Melnyk said, but we admire him as he's been a tremendous owner for us.

All we care about here is the health of our generational dman, we don't care about Cooke.


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