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Canucks 3 Stars 4: Glen Gulutzan Gulugs His Gulatorade with Gulee

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02-16-2013, 02:23 PM
  #351
RealGudbranson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
The team is doing well right now to limit 2nd (3rd, 4th, etc.) opportunities and it's highlighting the differences between Schneider and Luongo. There is no better goalie in the league at stopping the first shot than Luongo. If the team can continue playing like this then they obviously need to consider whether trading him is the right move.

Going by the historical facts though, I would guess that they can't really keep it up and will soon be back to giving up 2nd and 3rd opportunities all over the place. I think Schneider is the better goaltender in that case.
I'm more confident in the Canucks defensive ability to stop the 2nd and 3rd chances this year, and I believe its because of the balanced (but complained about) defense pairings.

By the end of last season, both the forwards and defensemen were not focusing on clearing away the rebounds. This (to my untrained hockey eye) lack of clearing was the opposite of the 2011 Canucks, St. Louis, Nashville, Los Angeles, and Boston (in the finals)'s play. I really think that the Canucks will keep it up, especially with the deeper forward group, that's generally strong defensively. Last year, they just didn't look like they were into the game, and after the extended break, the players seem dialed in again.

Am I being too optimistic?

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02-16-2013, 02:25 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Edonator View Post
Cory has never outplayed him by a wide margin.
2012

Cory Schneider .937 save % 1.96 gaa
Roberto Luongo .919 save % 2.41 gaa

Lu starts slow every year but retains the net. Cory had one bad game to start the year and lost the net. He deserves better.


Last edited by Scurr: 02-16-2013 at 02:32 PM.
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02-16-2013, 02:25 PM
  #353
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Jamie Benn is one hell of a player, boy would he look good on a line with Kesler.

One of those games that you can't believe they lost. Awful wave off goal set the tone for the night and likely changed the outcome of the game.

Team skated really well though, and having Kesler back was really nice.

We need an Ehrhoff type on the blueline for the PP desperately. We need to try and get Visnovsky.

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02-16-2013, 02:27 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Apparently when it comes to our goalies we should unseat Luongo because Schneider plays well against weak competition, but when the Sedins go on a 10 game pointless streak we should keep giving them top minutes and 80% offensive zone start. Ah well.

Luongo clearly should start next game, and if he continues playing lights out I would look to give him the bulk of the starts going forward. Cory isn't bad, but Luongo has been playing like Tim Thomas circa 2011. The Bruins were smart enough to recognize it and run with it, we should be too.
I agree with you, but unfortunately, there isn't really a way around that. When the Sedins are in a funk, Vigneault has to play them because we're not going to win anything without the Sedins producing, by nature of the line up. Who else will score, if given that time? There's some skill on the bottom 9, but even including Kesler, there isn't a reliable source of offense- and even then, Kesler's on the top PP unit so if the Sedins are shut down on the PP, so is Kesler.

If the Sedins aren't going to be split, then Henrik needs to shoot more. His SOG numbers last year were downright embarrassing for a grown man. ~120 shots over 82 games while being the main puckhandler?

Luongo should be playing more. Luongo is the better goaltender and has always been the better goaltender, but short term sacrifices must be made for long-term gains. In 3 years, Schneider will probably surpass Luongo, but there's no guarantee that Schneider re-signs unless he's the undisputed #1.

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02-16-2013, 02:36 PM
  #355
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I love how all of a sudden "Trading Schnieder for a good package and keeping Lu" is now acceptable to talk about after I was called out (flamed) just a month ago for saying it.
I agree. I had been saying that keeping both goaltenders is the best course for the team.. trading Schneider is still a terrible idea. Keeping both goaltenders for as long as possible should be Gillis' priority.

What's worse was the constant denial that losing Ehrhoff would make the team a lot weaker and would cause the Sedins to return to their pre-09-11 production.

Fans have a delusional attachment to players, which is attributed to the urge to categorize players into ranks- as if arguing that the Sedins are top 5 players makes the Canucks a better team. I like the Sedins as much as the next guy, but liking the Sedins shouldn't stop anyone from criticizing them when they underperform.

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02-16-2013, 02:37 PM
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
2012

Cory Schneider .937 save % 1.96 gaa
Roberto Luongo .919 save % 2.41 gaa

Lu starts slow every year but retains the net. Cory had one bad game to start the year and lost the net. He deserves better.
I'm a huge Schneider fan but don't think he should be annointed the starter with Luongo still in the mix. AV has handled the goaltending situation just fine IMO. Go with the hot hand and things will work themselves out.

It was the media that wanted to declare Schneider the undisputed #1. That just doesn't make a lot of sense with an elite goaltender like Lou still around...

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02-16-2013, 02:38 PM
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
2012

Cory Schneider .937 save % 1.96 gaa
Roberto Luongo .919 save % 2.41 gaa

Lu starts slow every year but retains the net. Cory had one bad game to start the year and lost the net. He deserves better.
He didn't really lose the net. Luongo started the second half of the back to back as planned. Schneider got three consecutive starts after that. Lu started the next back to back and got four consecutive starts because he got on a roll. They went back to Schneider for two "just because" after that.

Luongo's playing very well right now and it benefits both him and the team to keep playing him. It ups his trade value and gives us the best chance to win. It's not like Schneider isn't getting his chances.

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02-16-2013, 02:41 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
He didn't really lose the net. Luongo started the second half of the back to back as planned. Schneider got three consecutive starts after that. Lu started the next back to back and got four consecutive starts because he got on a roll. They went back to Schneider for two "just because" after that.

Luongo's playing very well right now and it benefits both him and the team to keep playing him. It ups his trade value and gives us the best chance to win. It's not like Schneider isn't getting his chances.
Cory has earned, through his play and character off the ice, at least as much rope as has been afforded Lu over the last two years imo. One guy has always done and said the right things while the other guy hasn't.

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02-16-2013, 02:43 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Cory has earned, through his play and character off the ice, at least as much rope as has been afforded Lu over the last two years imo. One guy has always done and said the right things while the other guy hasn't.
Rope for what? He hasn't lost anything, really. It'd be nonsensical to have a second goalie playing as well as Luongo has been and not play him more than you anticipated.

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02-16-2013, 02:44 PM
  #360
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Interesting. Malhotra's stall with full gear still intact in #Canucks locker room

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02-16-2013, 02:45 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Cory has earned, through his play and character off the ice, at least as much rope as has been afforded Lu over the last two years imo. One guy has always done and said the right things while the other guys hasn't.
Schneider has never been a starting goalie and Luongo has been one of the best in the business for over a decade. Not really comparable at this point.

There's just no conceivable way Schneider should have been the undisputed starter going into this season. It always should have been seen as a tandem - and it looks like exactly that thus far.

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02-16-2013, 02:45 PM
  #362
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Rope for what? He hasn't lost anything, really. It'd be nonsensical to have a second goalie playing as well as Luongo has been and not play him more than you anticipated.
Then why did we do that with Lu playing two terrible Octobers and Cory sitting on the bench?

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02-16-2013, 02:47 PM
  #363
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Then why did we do that with Lu playing two terrible Octobers and Cory sitting on the bench?
Because Cory Schneider had like 5 NHL games under his belt that 1st October and had proven absolutely nothing at the NHL level...

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02-16-2013, 02:49 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Because Cory Schneider had like 5 NHL games under his belt that 1st October and had proven absolutely nothing at the NHL level...
What about last year then? Cory ended up getting the net because Lu got injured but not before. He then kept the net until he had one bad period... then he didn't play for a month.

The goalies are clearly treated differently because of the ego's involved.

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02-16-2013, 02:55 PM
  #365
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Schneider hasn't had just one bad game...and he was never the absolute starter here anyway.

Anaheim (our opener), the following San Jose game, and last night have all been lack luster.

It happens, let not kid our selves. The Sharks out worked us, and putting all the blame on Schneider is ridiculous. Last night the entire team took their foot off the gas, and Dallas is a team capable of scoring thrice in a period.

All this being said, the only time Lu has let more then 2 goals in have been shootout losses.

And it seems when Schneider is in net, as good as his play is, he is not as capable of stealing a game as Luongo is, if our forwards and defence are to take a night off. That's what I am learning more and more from the Canucks. Let's not take any games, or even any periods, off.

I was severely disappointed by the outcome last night, first period was fine, although we gave up a goal and Raymond got his goal called for goalie interference (it was weak, but it's in the rulebook...), our second period wasn't as good, but we scored three goals on their back up. Our third period just fell apart, no one wanted the puck, every pass had to go through three Stars and it was like a 2 second pass rule was in play. We were physical at least, but it seemed that no one wanted to set up offensively, no one wanted a break when we got the puck out of our end, and our defence couldn't hit the net to save their life.

Also, Edler shouldn't be playing the right side. I remember one clear instant of him bobbling a near perfect one timer (save for his handedness) on an open net, and then every time he touched the puck or was on the ice, I was noticing how out of position he was.

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02-16-2013, 02:55 PM
  #366
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What about last year then? Cory ended up getting the net because Lu got injured but not before. He then kept the net until he had one bad period... then he didn't play for a month.
Because at the beginning of last year it was still a starter/backup relationship. This year isn't; it's more of a 1A/1B.

Once Schneider put up a 2nd year of quality play he improved his standing and he ended up getting about 45% of the starts in the last 2 months of the season and got 3 of the 5 playoff games. That's how Luongo is being handled this year.

I get that you don't like Luongo, but that's your problem not the team's.

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02-16-2013, 02:55 PM
  #367
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Interesting. Malhotra's stall with full gear still intact in #Canucks locker room
Probably out of respect. Wouldn't be surprised if they keep it there all year.

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02-16-2013, 02:57 PM
  #368
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What about last year then? Cory ended up getting the net because Lu got injured but not before. He then kept the net until he had one bad period... then he didn't play for a month.
Because he had less than half a season experience as an NHL'er and his claim to fame was 1 solid year as a sheltered backup - while Luongo has been a top 3 goaltender over the last 5-10 years.

Schneider proved last season he was a rising star at his position and was given the bulk of starts come playoff time and is splitting starts right now with an elite goaltender. I don't see the problem.

Why would anyone keep Luongo on the bench for a sustained period when he's playing at an elite level? That's certainly not something a good coach would do...

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02-16-2013, 02:59 PM
  #369
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The goalies are clearly treated differently because of the track records involved.
Fixed.

You're comparing apples and oranges...

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02-16-2013, 03:01 PM
  #370
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I get that you don't like Luongo, but that's your problem not the team's.
That's not true. I criticized Lu after the 2010 season and to his credit he made changes to his game that were needed. If you look back, my problem was with how he dealt with traffic and how much he was challenging given the style the Canucks were trying to play. I took a lot of heat but in hindsight Lu agreed and made exactly the changes I was calling for. It's never been personal.

IMO Cory deserves better. Disagree if you want but please don't accuse me of having an axe to grind with Lu. It isn't true.

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02-16-2013, 03:03 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Why would anyone keep Luongo on the bench for a sustained period when he's playing at an elite level? That's certainly not something a good coach would do...
Why would anyone keep Schneider on the bench for a month when he was clearly playing at an elite level?

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02-16-2013, 03:04 PM
  #372
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IMO Cory deserves better.
If you can explain why Cory 'deserves' more starts than Luongo I will be impressed.

There's absolutely no case to be made here at this point...

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02-16-2013, 03:04 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
What about last year then? Cory ended up getting the net because Lu got injured but not before. He then kept the net until he had one bad period... then he didn't play for a month.

The goalies are clearly treated differently because of the ego's involved.
The goalies are treated that way because one was the back up and one was the starter.

Luongo is a better goaltender than Schneider.

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02-16-2013, 03:04 PM
  #374
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That's not true. I criticized Lu after the 2010 season and to his credit he made changes to his game that were needed. If you look back, my problem was with how he dealt with traffic and how much he was challenging given the style the Canucks were trying to play. I took a lot of heat but in hindsight Lu agreed and made exactly the changes I was calling for. It's never been personal.

IMO Cory deserves better. Disagree if you want but please don't accuse me of having an axe to grind with Lu. It isn't true.
I think the fact that you're assuming that the coaching staff is kowtowing to Luongo's ego rather than making an informed decision based on the 2 goalies' track records and level of play illustrates what you think of him.

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02-16-2013, 03:05 PM
  #375
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Why would anyone keep Schneider on the bench for a month when he was clearly playing at an elite level?
So you're saying 2 wrongs make a right? AV mishandled that situation so he should botch this one equally? That's not a very good defense...

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