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Canucks 3 Stars 4: Glen Gulutzan Gulugs His Gulatorade with Gulee

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02-16-2013, 03:06 PM
  #376
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
If you can explain why Cory 'deserves' more starts than Luongo I will be impressed.

There's absolutely no case to be made here at this point...
Easy. One guy has said and done all the right things and wants to be here. The other guy would like to move on.

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02-16-2013, 03:07 PM
  #377
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What about last year then? Cory ended up getting the net because Lu got injured but not before. He then kept the net until he had one bad period... then he didn't play for a month.

The goalies are clearly treated differently because of the ego's involved.
Luongo's ego is clearly out of control. Just look at how he's handled being benched every time.

Luongo's numbers weren't great last October but he only really had one really bad game.

They went Luongo (OTL), Schneider (W), Luongo (L), Schneider (L), Luongo (W), Luongo (L), Schneider (W), Luongo (L), Schneider (L), Luongo (W). So only once did Luongo get consecutive starts in the whole month of October.

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02-16-2013, 03:07 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
So you're saying 2 wrongs make a right? AV mishandled that situation so he should botch this one equally? That's not a very good defense...
I think Cory has earned the same benefit of doubt that Lu had.

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02-16-2013, 03:09 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
What about last year then? Cory ended up getting the net because Lu got injured but not before. He then kept the net until he had one bad period... then he didn't play for a month.

The goalies are clearly treated differently because of the ego's involved.
Luongo was the undisputed #1 goalie, coming off a SCFs appearance and a sensational region season. Schneider was the backup. Full Schedule meant the team had time to work Luongo into form.

This year 1a is highly talented but unproven as an NHL starter, 1b is a Vezina calibre vet. Ride the hot hand in a shortened season.

100% different circumstances. End of story.

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02-16-2013, 03:10 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I think Cory has earned the same benefit of doubt that Lu had.
Totally agree. I must have been drunk and missed Cory's Hart nomination, multiple Vezina nominations, and several playoff series wins, but I'll take your word that it happened too and they both deserve to be handled with the same benefit of doubt.

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02-16-2013, 03:10 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
So you're saying 2 wrongs make a right? AV mishandled that situation so he should botch this one equally? That's not a very good defense...
The reason Vigneault puts Schneider on the bench despite his hot play in favour of a struggling Luongo is the same reason that he puts the Sedins out for every powerplay start regardless of the Sedins' level of hotness: The team goes as far as its best players take them. The Canucks don't win anything if the Sedins/Luongo aren't playing at their best, and unfortunately, that means you have to make the short-term sacrifices for the long-term benefits.

Why doesn't Schneider get the benefit of the doubt this year? Because Luongo is still a better goaltender than Schneider. Vigneault can't start Luongo as much as he wants to because Schneider must be given playing time.


Do I agree, personally? I see the reason why- not the way I would do things, but I understand why.

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02-16-2013, 03:11 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I think Cory has earned the same benefit of doubt that Lu had.
Well, you're wrong. One guy has proven 10 times as much as the other.

That's like saying Cody Hodgson deserves the same benefit of the doubt as Henrik Sedin.

There's no bigger fan of Cory Schneider than me. But I don't let that cloud my judgement.

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02-16-2013, 03:14 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Easy. One guy has said and done all the right things and wants to be here. The other guy would like to move on.
If that's not an "ax to grind" with Luongo, then I don't know what is.

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02-16-2013, 03:18 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
That's like saying Cody Hodgson deserves the same benefit of the doubt as Henrik Sedin.
If Cody Hodgson had outperformed Hank for two seasons and Hank asked to be traded but was still playing ahead of Cody it would be the same.

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02-16-2013, 03:21 PM
  #385
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If Cody Hodgson had outperformed Hank for two seasons and Hank asked to be traded but was still playing ahead of Cody it would be the same.
He only theoretically asked to be traded because they benched him through very little fault of his own in favor of Schneider, signed Schneider to starter's money and apparently gave him the impression that he would start 75% of the games. It wasn't so much of a trade demand as a guy with a NTC facing the reality of the situation. He's not standing in the way of the club moving him because it was clear that's what they want to do.

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02-16-2013, 03:27 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
If Cody Hodgson had outperformed Hank for two seasons and Hank asked to be traded but was still playing ahead of Cody it would be the same.
2 seasons? In '10-11 Luongo was a Vezina finalist and Schneider's starts were hand picked muffins. Go take a closer look at how the goaltending was handled during the '10-11 season and you'll see why nobody agrees with you here...

Hodgson is outproducing Henrik this season. Something tells me he wouldn't be annointed our #1 centre because of it. Track record.

You still haven't made a case for why Schneider deserves more than 50% of the starts. You haven't even attempted to, which is telling.

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02-16-2013, 03:28 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Elbows of Bure View Post
I'm more confident in the Canucks defensive ability to stop the 2nd and 3rd chances this year, and I believe its because of the balanced (but complained about) defense pairings.

By the end of last season, both the forwards and defensemen were not focusing on clearing away the rebounds. This (to my untrained hockey eye) lack of clearing was the opposite of the 2011 Canucks, St. Louis, Nashville, Los Angeles, and Boston (in the finals)'s play. I really think that the Canucks will keep it up, especially with the deeper forward group, that's generally strong defensively. Last year, they just didn't look like they were into the game, and after the extended break, the players seem dialed in again.

Am I being too optimistic?
I can see where you're coming from where we have stability to our lines and defensive pairings like we did when we made the cup run. I want to be optimistic but we can't win when our top line (Sedins) don't do the most damage, we can have all the scoring by commitee but we need a dominant line and we just don't have one with the Sedins being a shell of themselves and not being playoff heros in the first place.

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02-16-2013, 03:34 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Easy. One guy has said and done all the right things and wants to be here. The other guy would like to move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
You still haven't made a case for why Schneider deserves more than 50% of the starts. You haven't even attempted to, which is telling.
I made my case. Cory is going to be our starting goaltender going forward and deserves to be treated like it.

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02-16-2013, 03:36 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
He only theoretically asked to be traded because they benched him through very little fault of his own in favor of Schneider, signed Schneider to starter's money and apparently gave him the impression that he would start 75% of the games. It wasn't so much of a trade demand as a guy with a NTC facing the reality of the situation. He's not standing in the way of the club moving him because it was clear that's what they want to do.
If Lu asked to be moved because he lost the net, what does that say about him? I actually think more of Lu then that.

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02-16-2013, 03:52 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I made my case. Cory is going to be our starting goaltender going forward and deserves to be treated like it.
That has nothing to do with performance. If Luongo is playing like the best goalie on the planet he should play. Schneider is lucky he's been given half the starts.

Luongo too has said all the right things and been a consumate professional throughout all of this.

Schneider should be treated like the starter when he's good enough to be our starter. That isn't the case right now and may not be until Luongo moves on.

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02-16-2013, 04:03 PM
  #391
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Luongo too has said all the right things and been a consumate professional throughout all of this.
I disagree with that. It is not professional to air your dirty laundry to the media the day after the season ends. It wasn't a controversy until Lu opened his mouth. He said he wanted what was best for the team but in reality what was best for the team was keeping his mouth shut.

Cory on the other hand has always said whatever he needed to keep it from becoming a controversy. Nobody would have blamed him for saying he wanted to play more or that he earned more playing time but instead he did what was best for the team rather than just saying he would.

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02-16-2013, 04:13 PM
  #392
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In b4 coaches corner and Cherry only talking about the Canucks tonight because they finally lost. 3 fights is the momentum change and apparently that's what made Schneids let in a couple softies

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02-16-2013, 04:18 PM
  #393
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In b4 coaches corner and Cherry only talking about the Canucks tonight because they finally lost. 3 fights is the momentum change and apparently that's what made Schneids let in a couple softies
Hel say the canucks got pushed around and are the same old team

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02-16-2013, 04:18 PM
  #394
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And Lu deserves to probably start right now because he's playing better.

It's the playoffs where this goalie stuff will be decided. And I'm still not sold on Luongo until he proves that he's not a nervous wreck in the playoffs.

The Canucks still need to see what the return is for both of them and take the deal that makes this team better

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02-16-2013, 04:27 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I disagree with that. It is not professional to air your dirty laundry to the media the day after the season ends. It wasn't a controversy until Lu opened his mouth. He said he wanted what was best for the team but in reality what was best for the team was keeping his mouth shut.

Cory on the other hand has always said whatever he needed to keep it from becoming a controversy. Nobody would have blamed him for saying he wanted to play more or that he earned more playing time but instead he did what was best for the team rather than just saying he would.
Everyone and their mother knew there was a controversy the moment Schneider started the playoff games. How would Luongo saying nothing be in the best interest of the team? Gillis would still have tried to move him and everyone still would have known he would be willing to move on.

Would Schneider have re-signed if he thought Luongo wasn't going to be moved eventually? I doubt it. He's already had his agent complaining for him. He's also the one who went public talking about being the new starter.

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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
If Lu asked to be moved because he lost the net, what does that say about him? I actually think more of Lu then that.
This is nuts. Schneider wouldn't have signed a long term deal to stay here if he wasn't going to be the starter.

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02-16-2013, 04:30 PM
  #396
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This is nuts. Schneider wouldn't have signed a long term deal to stay here if he wasn't going to be the starter.
I wouldn't call a 3 year deal a long term contract.

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02-16-2013, 04:31 PM
  #397
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I wouldn't call a 3 year deal a long term contract.
For him it is. He didn't sign on for an additional three years of being a backup.

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02-16-2013, 04:37 PM
  #398
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Opening game and Sharks game he was also sub-standard in games where the Canucks played at least even to their opposition. Plus, he's getting over 3 goals a game of support, so even if the team's defense is shaky, he shouldn't be losing this many games.
I agree that he didn't play stellar in those games, but we were completely dominated in the first game vs the Ducks and outplayed by the Sharks in our game vs them

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02-16-2013, 04:49 PM
  #399
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If that's not an "ax to grind" with Luongo, then I don't know what is.
Here is what I think.

I think Luongo was captain of the team. Whether that was a stunt by Gillis to suck up to him is debatable . But he was captain and its not Luongo's fault he was named captain.

Luongo singed a huge 12 year deal. Again, did his agent bend Gillis over? Thats debatable. But thats not Luongo's fault Gillis agreed to 12 years apposed to something reasonable like 7 .

Seven years or twelve, Luongo did not sign the contract to sit on the bench. So when Cory was ready, everyone -including Cory himself-expected him to be traded. But then the unexpected happened. Cory stole the job from Luongo.

now this WAS Luongo's fault. So he didnt complain. In fact, he never insisted that Schneider was 'cramping his style' so he did the right thing. He asked to be moved and let Schneider have the team.

I think him beaking all this in PUBLIC screwed Gillis over. But again, thats history now and what is done is done.

It doesnt mean Luongo WANTED to leave here, but if Schneider is the #1 , hes too good to just sit on the bench. I dont find this insulting to the canucks nor does it make Luongo look bad.

Luongo's mistakes were..........letting Cory steal the job off him, and then publicaly demanding a trade.

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02-16-2013, 05:05 PM
  #400
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Here is what I think.

I think Luongo was captain of the team. Whether that was a stunt by Gillis to suck up to him is debatable . But he was captain and its not Luongo's fault he was named captain.
That`s not entirely true. You don`t think Gillis spoke with Luongo before naming him the captain?

He could have declined it. Even afterwards, he said he thought the captaincy distracted him from playing goalie. (Maybe there's a freaking reason why goalies haven't been captain for like decades)

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