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Addressing the Sens Issue of that top line PF

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Old
03-20-2005, 10:10 AM
  #1
NFITO
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Addressing the Sens Issue of that top line PF

Seems that every day there's a new thread about the next deal going to Ottawa to address their "hole" on the top line LW.

Some players mentioned so far have been Bertuzzi, Smyth, Hartnell... Morrow in other threads, etc...

I think for the most part, most of these deals won't fit because of what the other team would need in return... for the Sens, the best deal would be to land a player like this, without giving up a core/key player from their lineup.

the most realistic solutions that I've seen so far has been Bertuzzi-Havlat (and whatever else in a deal)... but again from the Canucks POV, I don't see this as a trade that really helps them.

The canucks aren't a rebuilding team, and can't afford to really move Bertuzzi unless they have to.

Another name that has been brought up in other threads, as possibly available, is Shanahan (from the Wings thread about rebuilding)...

I don't know how realistic it is that Shanahan moves, but IMO, out of all the names mentioned so far he is by far the best fit.

His salary isn't at Bertuzzi's level... he's got 1 more year left on his deal, and likely wouldn't cost nearly as much as Bertuzzi, or Smyth or Morrow... and if Detroit is really thinking about rebuilding at any level, then moving Shanahan makes the most sense, since unlike Hatcher, or Whitney, he'd have more trade value overall.

So what would the Sens give up to land Shanahan? They have a deep cupboard of solid prospects at every position. For 1 year of Shanahan, which would no doubt make the Sens a formidable playoff team, would they be willing to part with Vermette? or Emery +?

I think overall Shanahan is the best fit... he brings experience, grit, toughness, and a scoring touch... he could be a good fit to create more room for Spezza and Hossa as well... and I doubt that the Sens would have to part with someone like Havlat to make it happen too - so they can either keep him, or move him in another deal to plug another hole if need be.

my proposal:

Shanahan to Ottawa
Emery, Kaigorodov, conditional pick to Detroit.

That conditional pick can be based on 1) how far Ottawa goes in the playoffs, and 2) whether they are able to re-sign Shanahan after his deal expires.

too much to give up? not enough incentive for Detroit? thoughts?

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Old
03-20-2005, 10:45 AM
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fine valuewise.

Detroit has tons of goalie prospects, probably doesn't need another. Also, I'm not very high on Emery.

On Ottawa's side, i guess its a good deal. Although, i'm not quite sure how much Shanahan will be the powerforward they've been craving. He's not much of one anymore. But, he's a good playoff guy and a team leader, would surely help in that department.

i'm 50-50 on it for both sides.

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03-20-2005, 11:28 AM
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Well, with this season gone I'm not sure whether Shanahan would be a good addition for the Sens. I mean he will be 37 next season and I have doubts that he will be a key player still. He numbers in Detroit was decreasing last year. I don't think this was a one year slumber (if you can call a 53 point season that) but a sign of decline. He has perhaps a few more seasons in him but I don't think as the player the Sens are looking for.

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03-20-2005, 12:18 PM
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I don't quite "get" how Shanahan...at his stage in his career and salary is worth THAT much.

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03-20-2005, 01:20 PM
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forget the points production with Shanahan at this stage... it's not needed for him to put up lots of points. The Sens have lots of offensive guns and Shanahan doesn't need to replace their role.

What Shanahan brings is Cup winning experience... he's the type of player that does well in the playoffs, and he's been there, and can share that experience with the rest of the Sens lineup. a 50pt Shanahan, given what the Sens already have, and what they need, is more valuable IMO than an 80-90 pt Bertuzzi, who's still learning playoff hockey.

and the key point here is that the Sens do not have to part with Havlat to add a Shanahan type... try doing that with Bert or Smyth or Morrow.

The Sens don't need a top scoring PF who's still young and has lots left in the tank... they need a gritty playoff vet who is a left winger and can play on the top unit... someone who can bring experience and leadership when it is needed most.

For the same pkg, IMO the Sens could find a few better solutions - but they just aren't going to get those types with the same pkg.

Why Shanahan makes sense to me is:

1) he's in the West - so whatever move either team makes, they aren't helping a conference rival;
2) he brings playoff experience and Cup winning experience
3) he can still play a solid top 6 role.
4) he won't cost as much to acquire as most top level (available) PF left wingers.
5) tied in with #4 - the Sens don't have to move a key/core player to make it happen... what's a better fit - Smyth or Shanahan AND Havlat?

The Sens don't need to add more scoring... the intangibles that Shanahan brings however is exactly what IMO the Sens do need to add to take it to the next level though.

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03-20-2005, 03:00 PM
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What about straight up for Mike Fisher?

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03-20-2005, 03:17 PM
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I think that first deal is pretty good...and the Wings should focus on Kaigorodov. He's having a great season in Russia, and there could perhaps be some chemistry with Datsyuk.

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03-20-2005, 03:24 PM
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Isn't Shanahan a Free Agent in the summer? If remember correctly, he did sign a one-year contract before the lockout.

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03-20-2005, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavel datsyuk
What about straight up for Mike Fisher?
Shanahan is 35 years old with a giant price tag, his trade value just isnt very high. Plus its clearly obvious he is on the decline 25 28 53 is not the all star pf numbers that he used to put up.

If the sens really wanted him they would have went after him in the UFA market this summer.

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Old
03-20-2005, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomACE
Isn't Shanahan a Free Agent in the summer? If remember correctly, he did sign a one-year contract before the lockout.
his contract has a team option for a year, i believe at 5 million

as far as the deal goes.. i guess it would depend on how confident the wings are in liv and howard.. maybe drop emery and just go kaigorodov and an actual draft pick, maybe a 2nd rounder..

shanahan would be great in ottawa imo, and any deal i've read on here with ottawa that makes me go 'boy, as a leaf fan i hope they don't land player X'.. makes me like the deal for them

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03-20-2005, 04:14 PM
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Tough choice? Do the Sens give away a Larionov clone in Kaygorodov to get a 37 yr old PF Shanahan or do we trade Havlat to get a Smyth, Cole or Hartnell type player? Or do we go to the UFA list and purchase a Glen Murray or Lindros and keep Havlat? Or do we do nothing, move players around to find the best fit from within our own organization? Everybody seems to have a different opinion.

Some think the Sens need more grit, others say we have enough grit we need playoff scoring, others say we need better goaltending. Those that think Lindros is a risk consider that Shanahan, Smyth and Cole have also had some serious injuries in their careers. Money aside, I still like the addition of Lindros and Murray, if it's possible, they bring size, grit and scoring.

Murray - Spezza - Hossa - size and scoring
Havlat - Lindros - Alfredson - scoring and size inside
Schaefer - Fisher - Varada - checking line
Smilnski - White - Neil - Vermette is a call up, if needed.

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Old
03-20-2005, 04:19 PM
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andora
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so why are lindros and murray signing with the sens?

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Old
03-20-2005, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora
his contract has a team option for a year, i believe at 5 million
as far as the deal goes.. i guess it would depend on how confident the wings are in liv and howard.. maybe drop emery and just go kaigorodov and an actual draft pick, maybe a 2nd rounder..

shanahan would be great in ottawa imo, and any deal i've read on here with ottawa that makes me go 'boy, as a leaf fan i hope they don't land player X'.. makes me like the deal for them

His contract is actually a player option at $3m for next season. It was $4m this past season. I imagine there will probably be some rollback with it.

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Old
03-20-2005, 04:43 PM
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andora
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damn, is it tkachuk then that has a team option for five? i know some big name guy does.. my apologies..

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03-20-2005, 04:53 PM
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To Ottawa-Camellarri and Klatt
To LA- Havlat and a defensman prospect

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03-20-2005, 04:56 PM
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oh jeez

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Old
03-20-2005, 04:58 PM
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Peter Griffin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 ft. pole
To Ottawa-Camellarri and Klatt
To LA- Havlat and a defensman prospect
Defenseman prospect? Nuts to that! With that offer, go for Chara!






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Old
03-20-2005, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 ft. pole
To Ottawa-Camellarri and Klatt
To LA- Havlat and a defensman prospect
I started laughing then remembered Cammalleri is having a huge season, still, not worth Havlat though, not yet at least.

Kind of funny that someone called 10 ft. pole would make an offer that the Sens wouldn't touch, even with a...


As for Shanahan, I also don't think he's worth giving up a top prospect, let alone two. Might as well go for someone who'll stick for more than 1 year or go the free agent route.

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Old
03-20-2005, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aragorn
Smilnski - White - Neil - Vermette is a call up, if needed.
I think Boga has the 4th line LW spot. He's reliable and seems to be playing well. Unless you trade Boga to Detroit for Shanahan.



In all seriousness, I think Shanahan could fit in well with the Sens. Move Havlat to 1st ine LW and have Shanahan on the 2nd line. Doesn't give him too much pressure, he can still be effective and will be given PP time. To me Shanahan could make sense because if the Sense were to go after say Bertuzzi they would have to dismantle a part of their core. To me they are a few pieces away from winning and should not dismantle their team to acquire a big name guy. A veteran PF would be the perfect fit in Ottawa imo.

They already have enough offence, they don't need to add a PF who will get 40 goals, if Shanahan get 20+ that will be more than enough support for Ottawa. If Detroit were willing to move him, I think Ottawa should consider looking into Shanahan. I'm not sure who the Sens would want to give up, but they do have enough assets and prospects to make a fair deal for Shanahan.

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Old
03-20-2005, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
Defenseman prospect? Nuts to that! With that offer, go for Chara!






Hey didn't you see his "sick trick" at the all-star game? His value is at an all-time high!

Havlat is a decent starting point, but I feel the Sens are going to go ahead and add another piece...Hossa? Spezza?

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Old
03-20-2005, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavel datsyuk
What about straight up for Mike Fisher?

INCONCEIVABLE!

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Old
03-20-2005, 09:54 PM
  #22
Bileur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 ft. pole
To Ottawa-Camellarri and Klatt
To LA- Havlat and a defensman prospect

:lol

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Old
03-21-2005, 05:19 PM
  #23
Vatican Roulette
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bert
Shanahan is 35 years old with a giant price tag, his trade value just isnt very high. Plus its clearly obvious he is on the decline 25 28 53 is not the all star pf numbers that he used to put up.

If the sens really wanted him they would have went after him in the UFA market this summer.

Well in Shanahan was putting up all-star #'s, then i wouldn't have suggested Mike Fisher.

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03-21-2005, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by SensGod
INCONCEIVABLE!

you're an insult to that movie.

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Old
03-21-2005, 06:27 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
Shanahan to Ottawa
Emery, Kaigorodov, conditional pick to Detroit.
Not a bad proposal at all. I agree, Shanny could do very well in Ottawa. I still don't think it would be a bad idea for Ottawa to trade a RW for a LW as long as that LW is capable of becoming part of their core (and improving on it). But Shanny would be a very good 'plan B' option.

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