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Ryan O'Reilly Headed to Offer Sheet or Trade? (Part 3)

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Old
02-17-2013, 01:17 PM
  #201
Crisp Breakout
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
I could work with that.

O'Reilly + McGinn + Palushaj + Zanon

for

Kulemin + Colborne + Gardiner
McGinn's a no go, but the rest I can live with. You can drop Colborne if you want too; he won't be amounting to anything.

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02-17-2013, 01:17 PM
  #202
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Bozak has very little value to Avs in a trade. He's a pending UFA and Avs season is done. They'll be fine rolling out Mitchell + Olver/Sgarbossa on the lower line for another 30 games.

If he wants to be an Avs player, he'll be available in the summer. If he gets locked up before that or signs elsewhere, it's not like he's the type of guy you kick yourself for passing over.

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02-17-2013, 01:21 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by islandermaniac View Post
first, your offer is not more than fair. you offered a national hockey league player who is an unrestricted free agent at season's end, and, by your own admission, 2 "b" level prospects. (we can have a conversation about whether or not percy and biggs are "b" prospects on a different board if you so choose...i would argue that they aren't regarded as anything more than "c" level). that does not approach coming close to fair value even if your assertion that colorado is in a difficult spot is correct.

second, bozak is not a great player. you are throwing that word around pretty loosely. yes, he is a capable faceoff man. but let's not get too carried away with how valuable he is defensively. player usage charts show that he started 53% of his shifts in the offensive zone. that would suggest that he is not leaned on by his coaching staff as a defensive stalwart, so why would i accept your proclamation here that he is?

third, you say that he could easily replace o'reilly? why don't the leafs just re-sign bozak and keep their two "good" prospects, then?

fourth, o'reilly is a rogue asset? yawn. there is nothing rogue about o'reilly at all. he is without a contract. he is not playing in the nhl because of that. there is nothing "rogue" there at all.

lastly, i may not have insider information from gm's within the national hockey league, or have access to their professional scouting reports, but i consider myself to be a pretty informed fan of the game...one who at least understands that a player who is an unrestricted free agent at the end of the year and two middling prospects won't fetch a player who, if gm's could re-do the 2009 draft, could conceivably be the #2 overall pick behind john tavares.
As per the part regarding face off starts.

I think you should closer at his line-mates as per the reason.

RC has other C options that compare with TB in that regard, ones that don't force him to break up a line to do it. Kessel/JVR are not our best wing options in our end.

Add in the factore of TOI distribution and wanting to save the JVR/Boz/Kess set for offensive FO situations.

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02-17-2013, 01:21 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Bozak has very little value to Avs in a trade. He's a pending UFA and Avs season is done. They'll be fine rolling out Mitchell + Olver/Sgarbossa on the lower line for another 30 games.

If he wants to be an Avs player, he'll be available in the summer. If he gets locked up before that or signs elsewhere, it's not like he's the type of guy you kick yourself for passing over.
Meh, it makes too much sense to swap them in a trade now. Not saying he would be a center piece but having him for 20 games and finding out who he works with and what he provides to the AVS is worth something to them. Both for going into next season and negotiating a contract with him.

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02-17-2013, 01:49 PM
  #205
DougGilmour93
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
McGinn's a no go, but the rest I can live with. You can drop Colborne if you want too; he won't be amounting to anything.
If McGinn's a no go than you have to replace him with someone of equal value.
I'd consider something like this...

O'Reilly + Jones + Sgarbossa + Zanon

for

Kulemin + Colborne/Ashton + Gardiner

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02-17-2013, 01:51 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
If McGinn's a no go than you have to replace him with someone of equal value.
I'd consider something like this...

O'Reilly + Jones + Sgarbossa + Zanon

for

Kulemin + Colborne/Ashton + Gardiner
Nah, not interested in giving up Sgarbossa.

I'd do ROR+Jones+Zanon <---> Kule + Gards, but you're getting ripped off there by taking on Jones contract. Believe me, you don't want that.

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02-17-2013, 01:51 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
If McGinn's a no go than you have to replace him with someone of equal value.
I'd consider something like this...

O'Reilly + Jones + Sgarbossa + Zanon

for

Kulemin + Colborne/Ashton + Gardiner
No x1,000

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Old
02-17-2013, 01:51 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
If McGinn's a no go than you have to replace him with someone of equal value.
I'd consider something like this...

O'Reilly + Jones + Sgarbossa + Zanon

for

Kulemin + Colborne/Ashton + Gardiner
Hahahathat is hilarious.

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Old
02-17-2013, 01:52 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
If McGinn's a no go than you have to replace him with someone of equal value.
I'd consider something like this...

O'Reilly + Jones + Sgarbossa + Zanon

for

Kulemin + Colborne/Ashton + Gardiner
Pass from this Avs fan.

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Old
02-17-2013, 01:52 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
No x1,000
Make it No x 1 000 000 for the Avs.
Ugh.

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Old
02-17-2013, 01:57 PM
  #211
DougGilmour93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
Nah, not interested in giving up Sgarbossa.

I'd do ROR+Jones+Zanon <---> Kule + Gards, but you're getting ripped off there by taking on Jones contract. Believe me, you don't want that.
Hmmm..


Kulemin + Ashton + Gardiner

for

Downie + O'Reilly + Zanon

All in all, pretty fair.

Downie = Kulemin
O'Reilly < Gardiner
Zanon > Ashton

I understand Downie is lost for the season.

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02-17-2013, 02:02 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Hmmm..


Kulemin + Ashton + Gardiner

for

Downie + O'Reilly + Zanon

All in all, pretty fair.

Downie = Kulemin
O'Reilly < Gardiner
Zanon > Ashton

I understand Downie is lost for the season.
No. Take out Downie and Ashton and that's what I expect to happen.

On a side note, has Ashton started using his frame yet?

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02-17-2013, 02:06 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
No. Take out Downie and Ashton and that's what I expect to happen.

On a side note, has Ashton started using his frame yet?
Sorry, I thought you were working with me and being reasonable.

I'd consider O'Reilly + Zanon + Palushaj (waiverwire pickup) for Gardiner.

Top pairing, smooth skating, PMD are harder to come by than 2nd line defensive centerman (who are also holding out)

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02-17-2013, 02:07 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Sorry, I thought you were working with me and being reasonable.

I'd consider O'Reilly + Zanon + Palushaj (waiverwire pickup) for Gardiner.

Top pairing, smooth skating, PMD are harder to come by than 2nd line defensive centerman.
You'll have to forgive me if I don't consider your valuations reasonable. On Ashton, I'll take that as a no. The last time I saw him, I wondered if he'd even stick in the AHL long term - yet you try to pawn him off as having value as you did Colborne.

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02-17-2013, 02:11 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Sorry, I thought you were working with me and being reasonable.

I'd consider O'Reilly + Zanon + Palushaj (waiverwire pickup) for Gardiner.

Top pairing, smooth skating, PMD are harder to come by than 2nd line defensive centerman (who are
also holding out)
If you're calling Gardiner a top pairing defensman, then I'm calling O'Reilly a #1 center.

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02-17-2013, 02:11 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
You'll have to forgive me if I don't consider your valuations reasonable. On Ashton, I'll take that as a no. The last time I saw him, I wondered if he'd even stick in the AHL long term - yet you try to pawn him off as having value as you did Colborne.
Sorry, I don't see a bright future for Ashton, nor Colborne. They are assets in need of a change of scenery and perhaps more of an opportunity from a big club. They aren't main components in any deal setting.

But like I stated earlier, Gardiner > O'Reilly. That's the premise I'm working with.

Zanon and Palushaj could finish the deal or break the deal. Either way. I'm good with keeping my PMD.

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02-17-2013, 02:11 PM
  #217
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Trading Ryan O'Rielly straight up for Jake Gardiner is more than fair and addresses team needs, IMO.

However, I doubt Jake would be traded straight up for Ryan, though. Multiple members of the media have been speculating that Gardiner would not be traded for anything less than a first line centre. I have my reservations about O'Reilly's ability to be a top line forward.

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02-17-2013, 02:13 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Sorry, I don't see a bright future for Ashton, nor Colborne. They are assets in need of a change of scenery and perhaps more of an opportunity from a big club. They aren't main components in any deal setting.

But like I stated earlier, Gardiner > O'Reilly. That's the premise I'm working with.

Zanon and Palushaj could finish the deal or break the deal. Either way. I'm good with keeping my PMD.
Please do. Frankly, I was being reasonable by limiting it to Gardiner and Kulemin. You'll either see soon enough or be re-signing Bozak as your #1 center.

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02-17-2013, 02:15 PM
  #219
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I don't think Avs would ever trade O'Reilly for Gardiner in a straight up trade. O'Reilly is worth more.

Friedman saying that Avs asked for MDZ+(possibly ++) for O'Reilly+depth d supports this. MDZ is worth more than Gardiner.

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02-17-2013, 02:15 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Trading Ryan O'Rielly straight up for Jake Gardiner is more than fair and addresses team needs, IMO.

However, I doubt Jake would be traded straight up for Ryan, though. Multiple members of the media have been speculating that Gardiner would not be traded for anything less than a first line centre. I have my reservations about O'Reilly's ability to be a top line forward.
Seems like a good portion of the media, you know ones without strong ties to Nonis, seem to think Ryan already is a #1 center. Some even went so far as saying he would have gone #2 overall in the 2009 draft.

Except for PJ Stock. So essentially, Leafs fans are the PJ Stock of this board. Which, ya know seems about right.

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02-17-2013, 02:18 PM
  #221
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Please do. Frankly, I was being reasonable by limiting it to Gardiner and Kulemin. You'll either see soon enough or be re-signing Bozak as your #1 center.
Just as well. O'Reilly will never be more than a #2 centerman anyways. We already have 2 of those already (Grabo + Bozak). We'll turn our attention to a true #1 centerman. Thank you.

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02-17-2013, 02:21 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
Seems like a good portion of the media, you know ones without strong ties to Nonis, seem to think Ryan already is a #1 center. Some even went so far as saying he would have gone #2 overall in the 2009 draft.

Except for PJ Stock. So essentially, Leafs fans are the PJ Stock of this board. Which, ya know seems about right.
Wow. Ok, now I understand the mentality of this board. Taking Friedman and Healy as if they know what they are talking about. Incredible. You go on taking their word for meaning anything...lol

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02-17-2013, 02:22 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I don't think Avs would ever trade O'Reilly for Gardiner in a straight up trade. O'Reilly is worth more.

Friedman saying that Avs asked for MDZ+(possibly ++) for O'Reilly+depth d supports this. MDZ is worth more than Gardiner.
And Nonis has said Gardiner is untouchable... GM's can say/ask whatever they want and it has little impact on what really happens.

Will MDZ+ be offered? Who knows.

Considering the circumstances Gardiner is great value for RoR and it does make a great deal of sense.

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02-17-2013, 02:22 PM
  #224
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Yep. Mitchell has 9 points in 12 games, Bozak has 10 in 15, Bozak plays alongside Phil Kessel, Bozak plays 15 minutes a game, Mitchell plays 13.

Yep, go ahead and carry on in your delusion that Bozak puts Mitchell to shame.
ROR had 55 points last year and is projected as a 1st line centre.. Do you see anybody who's watched him questioning this? Nope. What's the point here? Points aren't the end all be all.

John Mitchell was one of the most frustrating players the Leafs have had over the years, he didn't actually just get good all of a sudden like you seem to think.

Go ahead and carry your delusion that JOHN MITCHELL will stick with the Avalanche past his current contract. The guy is the epitome of a dime a dozen player.

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02-17-2013, 02:25 PM
  #225
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Just as well. O'Reilly will never be more than a #2 centerman anyways. We already have 2 of those already (Grabo + Bozak). We'll turn our attention to a true #1 centerman. Thank you.
That's an incredibly short-sighted thing to say. Especially since he's already gone above and beyond the expectations placed on him by scouts in his draft year.

It almost sounds as if you've not really watched any Avalanche games, if so then you'd see that your comment is very short-sighted.

What's funny is that a tremendous amount of Leafs fans are wanting to acquire him, but not give up anything of quality, that's just not going to cut it.

So you go ahead and keep Gardiner, who is a fine player, and we'll the Avs will turn towards other teams who know what O'Reilly's value is.

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