HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Winger Acquisition Thread | Part IV: In the Time Before Wingers Came into the World

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-18-2013, 06:41 PM
  #351
WarriorScholar
Registered User
 
WarriorScholar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,008
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
The thing I like more about Stewart than Setoguchi is that Stewart, over a 7 game series, would be so incredibly taxing to play against. That's a gigantic man with great speed and strength who can kill you if he gets a shot off in tight.

If we can get him to find a level of consistency, he'd make our top 6 so much harder to play against.
True, but I do like setoguchi's playoff experience. Battle tested against some solid teams. His last year with the sharks( 10-11) he played in 18 games netting 7 goals to go along with 43 hits and 65 shots. Not afraid to shoot that's for sure.

WarriorScholar is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 06:51 PM
  #352
eXile59
Shirts on.
 
eXile59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 16,530
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
We'll see. Catch a Blues game. Might change your opinion.
I've seen plenty of Blues games. That entire team looks like all stars right now.

I'm not saying he's a bad player. I'm saying if it's Despres we need to get more than that.

eXile59 is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 06:55 PM
  #353
mpp9
Registered User
 
mpp9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 19,013
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
I've seen plenty of Blues games. That entire team looks like all stars right now.

I'm not saying he's a bad player. I'm saying if it's Despres we need to get more than that.
He's been one of their best forwards most games. Why we have to give to get. If Shero views him as the next Neal, Despres is a goner if that's the price.

mpp9 is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 07:04 PM
  #354
Saints11
Registered User
 
Saints11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 422
vCash: 500
Not sure St. Louis moves Stewart; thinking the Flames moving Iggy is more of a certainty. That said I think a collective package to the Flames might be a better route to take. Not a fan of moving Despres, I think it showed yesterday in that we failed numerous times to get the puck out of our end against the Sabres that 47 was missing. Like most of you; I look forward to the day when we see some of our youngsters blossom; but the fact is; there are too many of them. Some have to be trading chips! I've read and heard how much they love Morrow. However, where does he fit on this club even next year? Is Dumoulin the heir apparent to Brooks? Can't see Orpik or Martin being dealt or bought out until the off season. You must use value to get value. It will be interesting to see what Shero does in the weeks ahead. I for one would rather see an early strike rather than waiting until the deadline be it Iggy, Stewart, Umberger, Kulemin, or whom ever.

Saints11 is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 07:07 PM
  #355
Malkinstheman
Registered User
 
Malkinstheman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints11 View Post
Not sure St. Louis moves Stewart; thinking the Flames moving Iggy is more of a certainty. That said I think a collective package to the Flames might be a better route to take. Not a fan of moving Despres, I think it showed yesterday in that we failed numerous times to get the puck out of our end against the Sabres that 47 was missing. Like most of you; I look forward to the day when we see some of our youngsters blossom; but the fact is; there are too many of them. Some have to be trading chips! I've read and heard how much they love Morrow. However, where does he fit on this club even next year? Is Dumoulin the heir apparent to Brooks? Can't see Orpik or Martin being dealt or bought out until the off season. You must use value to get value. It will be interesting to see what Shero does in the weeks ahead. I for one would rather see an early strike rather than waiting until the deadline be it Iggy, Stewart, Umberger, Kulemin, or whom ever.
Ultimately in 3-4 years i see our defence line up becoming like this:
Letang-Harrington
Poliout/morrow-Depres/dumoulin
roupp-samulesson

Harrington alowws letang to roam around while he can clean up any mistakes or break up plays. Pouliout or morrow provide most of our offence from the back end while elmer or domoulin do the same job harrington has. The last line becomes a mix of tougness and reliability, so basically our future shut down line.

Malkinstheman is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 07:08 PM
  #356
eXile59
Shirts on.
 
eXile59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 16,530
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
He's been one of their best forwards most games. Why we have to give to get. If Shero views him as the next Neal, Despres is a goner if that's the price.
I hate to ruin the surprise but he is not the next Neal. Even if he was 1st pairing D-man > 1st line winger.

eXile59 is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 07:11 PM
  #357
td_ice
Peter shows the way
 
td_ice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints11 View Post
Not sure St. Louis moves Stewart; thinking the Flames moving Iggy is more of a certainty. That said I think a collective package to the Flames might be a better route to take. Not a fan of moving Despres, I think it showed yesterday in that we failed numerous times to get the puck out of our end against the Sabres that 47 was missing. Like most of you; I look forward to the day when we see some of our youngsters blossom; but the fact is; there are too many of them. Some have to be trading chips! I've read and heard how much they love Morrow. However, where does he fit on this club even next year? Is Dumoulin the heir apparent to Brooks? Can't see Orpik or Martin being dealt or bought out until the off season. You must use value to get value. It will be interesting to see what Shero does in the weeks ahead. I for one would rather see an early strike rather than waiting until the deadline be it Iggy, Stewart, Umberger, Kulemin, or whom ever.
No, Dumoulin is nothing like Brooks. Not a very physical player at all. Will go into traffic areas, not afraid of contact, but not really not one to initiate contact.

td_ice is online now  
Old
02-18-2013, 07:13 PM
  #358
Malkinstheman
Registered User
 
Malkinstheman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 976
vCash: 500
I dont we should expect any moves for a while. It allows for the market to open up and the longer we wait the more the value increases of niskanen as a top-4 defencemen or the value of depres as a 1st pairing defencemen can be seen

Malkinstheman is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 07:13 PM
  #359
Saints11
Registered User
 
Saints11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 422
vCash: 500
I really feel in the long run; Dumoulin and Roupp will be the steals out of those trades. In fact, the Staal trade might go down as Shero's best move; even better than Dupuis and that throw-in for Colby, Christensen, Espo and a #1.

Saints11 is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 07:18 PM
  #360
Saints11
Registered User
 
Saints11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 422
vCash: 500
Replacing Brooks as our bigger bodied, BC guy.

Saints11 is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 07:18 PM
  #361
mpp9
Registered User
 
mpp9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 19,013
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
I hate to ruin the surprise but he is not the next Neal. Even if he was 1st pairing D-man > 1st line winger.
Pretty bold statement.

mpp9 is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 07:25 PM
  #362
Fire Shero*
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,440
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints11 View Post
I really feel in the long run; Dumoulin and Roupp will be the steals out of those trades. In fact, the Staal trade might go down as Shero's best move; even better than Dupuis and that throw-in for Colby, Christensen, Espo and a #1.
Wow. 2 guys who have never played in an nhl game and Sutter, who is a significant drop off from Staal. The trade could end up being a steal but Carolina clearly wins in the short term. When do you honestly expect pouliot do make our team? 3 years?

I would have liked the trade a whole lot more if they had drafted forsberg.

Fire Shero* is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 07:26 PM
  #363
Riptide
Moderator
 
Riptide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yukon
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,210
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
You're telling me you would rather draft a winger 25th overall that, you admitted, could be a very productive player in 5 years, then have Iginla for a run plus 2-3 year extension? I know this is Hockey's Future boards, but are you out of your mind?

It's one thing to say you wouldn't want to pay the price it'd take to get Iginla, but to say you'd rather move Niskanen (a proven 4-5 dman with upside) for Setogouchi than Maatta + a 1st is just really strange to me.

Are we forgetting how good Jerome Iginla is (and the small % of 1st rounder that will ever be as good as he is even in the latter stages of his career)?
If Jerome was 30 or even 32/33 I'd be all over that. But he's not... he's 35. He's off to a slow start now (1g/8a, -1 in 13 games). And he's not getting any younger. So no, if the cost of acquiring him is a 1st+ I wouldn't touch it.

It's about the risk. Seto has less of a history than Iggy, however he costs less and we would also have him next season vs running the risk of having to resign Iggy. Niskanen is replaceable from our prospect pool. We have 1 perhaps 2 potential top 6 forwards (I have high hopes on Blueger - however he's 3+ years away). So that pick could potentially be very valuable for us down the road.

If I had the option of gutting our prospect pool and guarantying a cup win... or the chance to be competitive/contenders for the next decade I'd take the latter over the former.

__________________
"I changed the whole game, man," Rinaldo said. "Who knows what the game would have been like if I didn't do what I did?" [after illegally running Letang from behind, slamming his head into the glass]
Riptide is online now  
Old
02-18-2013, 07:27 PM
  #364
Fordy
the kid signify
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 16,165
vCash: 500
I really really don't want to move Despres, but for Stewart I'd have to think about it. Hell no for Seto. I would like to see both on this team though.

Fordy is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:01 PM
  #365
jmelm
HFBoards Sponsor
 
jmelm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,782
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
Maatta's work ethic is out of this world apparently. I recall seeing an interview that discussed that some of him. They even had to convince him to tone it down in London (OHL) because if he didn't, he'd probably burnout before the playoffs would commence.
Maatta's work ethic is great, but he is prone to brain farts at times. It's too early to say, but I think his decision making could prevent him from being a top-4 Dman. And, most importantly, with the progression of Despres and Dumoulin, and if we keep them both, we really don't need Maatta when you factor in Harrington/Morrow/Dumoulin. I think it's very simple: if we trade Despres, Dumoulin or Morrow, then we keep Maatta. But if we see those 3 former guys as untouchables (preferably), then Maatta is a sensible trade chip.

And I do agree with the premise that Maatta was chosen because he was the best asset available at the time of our selection. I would move hiim for a "lesser" player like a Setoguchi or Josh Bailey, if they were made available. And with BB coming in, and hopefully some great selections in this draft, that just may be enough to set us up for the future long-term.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leafspensfan View Post
Could trade Dumoulin than...I'm fine with that, don't know much about him tho...
Dumoulin is not only a better prospec than Matta, he's 2 inches and 20lbs bigger, and borderline NHL ready. I see Dumoulin as an "untouchable" because we need to keep some size on our blueline to compensate for some of the smaller players we have (Letang, Morrow, Pouliot).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkinstheman View Post
Pouliout was compared to letang during the draft but i honestly dont see that happening. Pouliout is dynamic offensively but to even get on letangs level he needs to cleap up his defense in a big way.
Well, he's got all the time in the world, and most importantly, the hockey sense and determination to do that. Give him some time, please. (I don't think he'll ever be quite as good as Letang, but even if he tops out as a Brian Campbell or Letang-lite with better PP-QB ability, I'll happily take that on our roster).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyTwoTimes View Post
Get Iginla as a rental , win the cup, let him return to Calgary. Trade maata/ Harrington or whoever else and a pick for Stewart for long term solution.

Dupuis- Crosby - Iginla
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - Stewart

Try to beat those 3 lines .
That's the dumbest idea I've seen on this thread, no offense. Whoever gets Iginla will have to pay a signifcant price to do so (probably a 1st round pick), and there are ZERO indications he wants to stay in CGY. So thank you, but I'll either trade a TK+Maatta+2nd package with the mindset of re-signing Iginal to an extension, or we'll look for a younger guy to trade for now, and look at Iginla as a UFA in the summer. We're a contending team now, and while one player would help us, I don't think we need 2 wingers, we just need one.

jmelm is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:06 PM
  #366
Malkinstheman
Registered User
 
Malkinstheman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post


Well, he's got all the time in the world, and most importantly, the hockey sense and determination to do that. Give him some time, please. (I don't think he'll ever be quite as good as Letang, but even if he tops out as a Brian Campbell or Letang-lite with better PP-QB ability, I'll happily take that on our roster).


I agree with you that he has all the time in the world. I wasnt try to sound like i think pouliout doesnt have it in him, i am okay with waiting its just that im not sure if he has enough work ethic to full acheive his ceiling.

Malkinstheman is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:07 PM
  #367
IcedCapp
IcedCapp The White
 
IcedCapp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,457
vCash: 500
You know who I want, if we could get every GM in the league drunk and convince them to give us a player they'd never trade?

JVR. Kid is blossoming in Toronto. He'd be great here.

IcedCapp is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:10 PM
  #368
Malkinstheman
Registered User
 
Malkinstheman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
You know who I want, if we could get every GM in the league drunk and convince them to give us a player they'd never trade?

JVR. Kid is blossoming in Toronto. He'd be great here.
In exchange they would prob want a center back. Add in the fact that they are doing pretty good with 3 of their big guys injured id say they want to keep their team intact unless theyre out of the playoffs byt the deadline.

Malkinstheman is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:12 PM
  #369
IcedCapp
IcedCapp The White
 
IcedCapp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,457
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkinstheman View Post
In exchange they would prob want a center back. Add in the fact that they are doing pretty good with 3 of their big guys injured id say they want to keep their team intact unless theyre out of the playoffs byt the deadline.
They won't trade him - and they shouldn't - even if they are out of it. He'll be part of the solution. But he's a good, young, physical player who is really an offensive threat on the Leafs.

IcedCapp is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:18 PM
  #370
JTG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Sierra Leone
Posts: 38,967
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyTwoTimes View Post
True, but I do like setoguchi's playoff experience. Battle tested against some solid teams. His last year with the sharks( 10-11) he played in 18 games netting 7 goals to go along with 43 hits and 65 shots. Not afraid to shoot that's for sure.
Setoguchi has been known to score some pretty timely goals too.

JTG is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:20 PM
  #371
JTG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Sierra Leone
Posts: 38,967
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
I hate to ruin the surprise but he is not the next Neal. Even if he was 1st pairing D-man > 1st line winger.
He may not be a PPG player, but I see no reason why he couldn't return to his Colorado form. And in Colorado, he wasn't being fed puck from a one of the best centers in the game. I could definitely see him racking up big point totals here.

JTG is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:22 PM
  #372
jmelm
HFBoards Sponsor
 
jmelm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,782
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
You seem pretty sure of that. Why? Because Bort was steady for a few games with sheltered minutes? That's a world away from lining up against the likes of Giroux, Nash, and Ovechkin every shift. I like to not take risks when it comes to trying for the Cup thank you very much.
I do actually think Bort, provided he plays contnually and stops being sat, is absolutely ready for full-time NHL duty, and even more so than Despes. The biggest issue is just that Simon is a lefty (who is not ready, or even the right partner at all, to play with Letang), and Bortuzzo is a righty who needs a left-side partner. That's our problem. I would like to see Bortuzzo get solid minutes paired with Engelland on left side, because that is the only combo that makes sense. Then, next season when one or more of Orpik/Martin are gone, we'll be able to fit both of those guys in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
How many on here would deal Despres for Stewart.
Tempting, but it depends less on Stewart and more about how the Pens' own scouts/management feels about Dumoulin, Mattta, Samuelsson, and some of our other guys. I get the impression they like Despres, and wouldn't move him for anything less than a Bobby Ryan type of return. There's nothing we can do but speculate in this regard, and because I'm not in the board room talking with the scouts about how they feel about Stewart or the other prospects I mentioned, it's impossible for me to answer that. I would think that Niskanen + Maatta (+TK if necessary) should be enough to land Stewart without giving up Despres. Maybe a 2nd or 3rd if they didn't want Kennedy. I wouldn't go any further than that, right now, because I think that kind of package lands us Setoguchi + Mario Lucia or even Charlie Coyle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
This is the other reason I don't see a big name coming back in during the season. I just can't see Shero dealing one of his top-4 guys during the year. Off-season, yea, but not during a year in which he expects to win the cup.

I still think dealing Despres' contract is a mistake in future years, but if it gets you a surefire, long-term solution in the top-6... I guess you have to reluctantly do it.
I agree. You have to think of the multi-year plan. Unless we get a cheap "star" on an entry level deal (Kreider, Coyle, Niederreiter, etc.) that is capable of producing immediately, we're probably going to look at the trade market for Martin and/or Niskanen and/or Orpik (and I think only 1 of those guys is retained after the summer is over). Trading those kind of players (save Martin who has one more year left of his deal and the best of the bunch) is just good asset/cap management now, and it's hard not to imagine those guys not bring in good returns. So trading one top-Dprospect like Maatta, and one of those 3 vets should be more than enough to get one single winger to go along with Bennet next season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
The problem is, Despres is a better fit as Letang's partner than Niskanen. Niskanen is a fit with Engelland or with Orpik, but not Letang.

Just because Despres was a scratch the last game, that doesn't mean he isn't the top in-house option to play next to Letang right now.

TOTALLY disagree. Letang does not look comfortable AT ALL playing with Despres, because Letang likes to pinch and doesn't feel Desres is consistent enough denfensively to play his game comfortably. Also, Despres likes to join the offense, and it's not good to pair 2 of those same guys togther, especially given how much Letang does it. Despres better partner in the future will be Bortuzzo, Engelland or Martin next season (if he is retained and Orpik traded), and Letang's best partners would Orpik (if retained over Martin), Dumoulin or Harrington. I think each Letang and Despres have to play with more of a steady, stay-at-home type of guy.

jmelm is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:25 PM
  #373
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,900
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints11 View Post
Not sure St. Louis moves Stewart; thinking the Flames moving Iggy is more of a certainty. That said I think a collective package to the Flames might be a better route to take. Not a fan of moving Despres, I think it showed yesterday in that we failed numerous times to get the puck out of our end against the Sabres that 47 was missing. Like most of you; I look forward to the day when we see some of our youngsters blossom; but the fact is; there are too many of them. Some have to be trading chips! I've read and heard how much they love Morrow. However, where does he fit on this club even next year? Is Dumoulin the heir apparent to Brooks? Can't see Orpik or Martin being dealt or bought out until the off season. You must use value to get value. It will be interesting to see what Shero does in the weeks ahead. I for one would rather see an early strike rather than waiting until the deadline be it Iggy, Stewart, Umberger, Kulemin, or whom ever.
You take the deal when it becomes available. The real question is whether Shero is willing to pay the price. Neal deals, where there's a perfect alignment of team assets and needs for a larger, longer term deal, happen very rarely, but who knows if he'll settle for anything less.

KIRK is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:26 PM
  #374
Saints11
Registered User
 
Saints11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 422
vCash: 500
I didn't think it was real intelligent on the Flyers part to move JVR in the first place.

Saints11 is offline  
Old
02-18-2013, 08:28 PM
  #375
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,900
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
They won't trade him - and they shouldn't - even if they are out of it. He'll be part of the solution. But he's a good, young, physical player who is really an offensive threat on the Leafs.
Watching a little of that game . . . Carlyle has that whole team playing some really good hockey.

KIRK is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:43 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.