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2013 Leafs Trades/Proposals/Signings: Version VI - Just trade O'Reilly Already!

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Old
02-22-2013, 03:01 PM
  #776
Chandrashekhar Limit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
I seriously hope we can trade grabovski for some kind of decent deal for us. (1st, prospects, etc)

I don't mind the guy. But Kule-Mcc-Kom.....can do the exact same work for half the price.

And that is one hell of a 3rd line.
Having Grabovski there allows us to have 3 scoring lines. Having McClemment as the C does not. Yes, they are playing a shutdown role, but Grabo makes his line a threat in the offensive zone as well.

What do we need the cap space for right now? We can buy out Komi and trade Liles to free up 9M in the offseason.

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02-22-2013, 03:06 PM
  #777
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Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
I seriously hope we can trade grabovski for some kind of decent deal for us. (1st, prospects, etc)

I don't mind the guy. But Kule-Mcc-Kom.....can do the exact same work for half the price.

And that is one hell of a 3rd line.
That's the assumption bad not really the case... Grabo is being talked about like he will never score again sure he's not scoring at the moment at the rate people would feel comfortable for what he makes but he is getting chances ,when it's all said and done he'll have his share of goals which the trio you have wont have to balance the line out and justify having a shut down line play so much due to Carlyle's heavy line matching. His speed causes problems for the oppositions top players who tend to get a little lazy on the back check that alone has created scoring opportunities something the trio of Kule-Mcc-Kom wont have if he's gone.

Grabo has turned into a complete player his offense will come and all this BS about him is unwarranted since he does help the team win games something we can't say about Mac the passenger. Kulemin does have to start scoring again he needs to be in the 15 goal+ range to justify him playing on a line that plays so much. The shut down line is a two way line and at some point we will see more scoring from them just too skilled and talented not to.

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02-22-2013, 03:23 PM
  #778
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
Having Grabovski there allows us to have 3 scoring lines. Having McClemment as the C does not. Yes, they are playing a shutdown role, but Grabo makes his line a threat in the offensive zone as well.

What do we need the cap space for right now? We can buy out Komi and trade Liles to free up 9M in the offseason.
Being a threat is one thing, but actually producing is another. Grabovski needs to produce offensively or he's not worth his contract, simply because we can get his defensive game from McClement.

I'm a Grabovski fan and think he can be a solid offensive guy still. But he needs to produce.

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02-22-2013, 03:28 PM
  #779
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Originally Posted by GoLeafsGo96 View Post
Being a threat is one thing, but actually producing is another. Grabovski needs to produce offensively or he's not worth his contract, simply because we can get his defensive game from McClement.

I'm a Grabovski fan and think he can be a solid offensive guy still. But he needs to produce.
How many games has he struggled for? 5, maybe 8? So you are willing to move him because of a small stretch of offensive struggles?

No forward in this league plays well every game. There are always stretches of games where players don't seem to be worth their contract. Grabo is a notoriously slow starter, and also a very streaky player. In due time, he will start heating up.

Now if he doesn't produce for 2 straight years, then we might have an issue. Using a 15 game sample size to determine his effectiveness is laughable.

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02-22-2013, 03:31 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
How many games has he struggled for? 5, maybe 8? So you are willing to move him because of a small stretch of offensive struggles?

No forward in this league plays well every game. There are always stretches of games where players don't seem to be worth their contract. Grabo is a notoriously slow starter, and also a very streaky player. In due time, he will start heating up.

Now if he doesn't produce for 2 straight years, then we might have an issue. Using a 15 game sample size to determine his effectiveness is laughable.
He hasn't been the same offensive player for the entire year barring a stretch of two, maybe three games.

I not once said we need to trade him. I'm saying if it continues to play out the way it has so far there will need to be a change.

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02-22-2013, 03:37 PM
  #781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
How many games has he struggled for? 5, maybe 8? So you are willing to move him because of a small stretch of offensive struggles?

No forward in this league plays well every game. There are always stretches of games where players don't seem to be worth their contract. Grabo is a notoriously slow starter, and also a very streaky player. In due time, he will start heating up.

Now if he doesn't produce for 2 straight years, then we might have an issue. Using a 15 game sample size to determine his effectiveness is laughable.
Especially considering he just signed a 5.5 million dollar a year contract, he knows theres pressure on him so he's trying to do more, instead of playing his game. Soon enough he'll start scoring and getting points again, similarily to Kessel.

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02-22-2013, 03:39 PM
  #782
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Originally Posted by calcal798 View Post
Especially considering he just signed a 5.5 million dollar a year contract, he knows theres pressure on him so he's trying to do more, instead of playing his game. Soon enough he'll start scoring and getting points again, similarily to Kessel.
This.. He's overthinking and trying to do too much .. He's just gotta simplify his game

He'll be fine

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02-22-2013, 03:39 PM
  #783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoLeafsGo96 View Post
He hasn't been the same offensive player for the entire year barring a stretch of two, maybe three games.

I not once said we need to trade him. I'm saying if it continues to play out the way it has so far there will need to be a change.
The entire year is 18 games old. That's the problem with the source of your worries.

If this streatch has anyone worried about Graboski's production, they have not followed him the last 3 years. This is how he starts every year, and heats up at the 20-25 game mark.

Things need to continue playing out like this for multiple years before dealing him is a realistic outcome AKA its a topic not worth worrying about right now.

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02-22-2013, 04:01 PM
  #784
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Originally Posted by dimi78 View Post
That's the assumption bad not really the case... Grabo is being talked about like he will never score again sure he's not scoring at the moment at the rate people would feel comfortable for what he makes but he is getting chances ,when it's all said and done he'll have his share of goals which the trio you have wont have to balance the line out and justify having a shut down line play so much due to Carlyle's heavy line matching. His speed causes problems for the oppositions top players who tend to get a little lazy on the back check that alone has created scoring opportunities something the trio of Kule-Mcc-Kom wont have if he's gone.

Grabo has turned into a complete player his offense will come and all this BS about him is unwarranted since he does help the team win games something we can't say about Mac the passenger. Kulemin does have to start scoring again he needs to be in the 15 goal+ range to justify him playing on a line that plays so much. The shut down line is a two way line and at some point we will see more scoring from them just too skilled and talented not to.
Part of being a good shutdown line is playing hockey in the other teams end just not being good in your own end. If the Grabbo line has the puck and is putting the pressure in the offensive zone the other teams top line does not have the puck and cannot score so 2 ways to look at a shutdown line.

Now that being said there have been a few goals against where Grabbo was not in the right position down low in his zone or not hard enough on the puck but hopefully with a coach like RC will provide him with feedback to get better.

Don't forget last year RW had no concept of D just run and gun hockey so players now are adjusting to being in the right spot in the D zone.

So is Grabbo making tons of money for a checking centre sure but I don't see McClement being as good offensively to pin other big lines in the D zone. McClement is killer for us this year though.

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Old
02-22-2013, 04:07 PM
  #785
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Grabovski's line has been used as our shutdown line for the entire year. He has one of the highest amounts of defensive zone starts in the NHL. Every shift he is playing against the other teams top players.

Blame Carlyle for his lack of production, but the team is winning.

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02-22-2013, 04:08 PM
  #786
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Originally Posted by Flowzie View Post
Grabovski's line has been used as our shutdown line for the entire year. He has one of the highest amounts of defensive zone starts in the NHL. Every shift he is playing against the other teams top players.

Blame Carlyle for his lack of production, but the team is winning.
A winning team is kind of a foreign concept to the younger fans.

Prior to the last lock-out it was expected, now people put individual achievement above team achievement because it is all they've ever known.

Team sucks but they are young and Kessel scored 30 as a 23 year old!

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The magazine said Tuesday that Montreal is second at $1.18 billion, followed by Toronto at $1.15 billion.
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02-22-2013, 04:16 PM
  #787
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Very well put. I dont post much but I check in and read alot. The level of ignorance of some posters for ignoring overall play and all of the nuances, all the while focusing only on production astounds me.

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02-22-2013, 04:28 PM
  #788
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Very well put. I dont post much but I check in and read alot. The level of ignorance of some posters for ignoring overall play and all of the nuances, all the while focusing only on production astounds me.
Scott Stevens goes from a high scoring defender to a Stanley Cup winner.

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02-22-2013, 04:33 PM
  #789
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Scott Stevens goes from a high scoring defender to a Stanley Cup winner.
Carter and Richards didn't come close to their best seasons in Phili last year when they were with LA, but they were huge in the cup win for the Kings

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02-22-2013, 04:37 PM
  #790
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McClement would fair just as well if not better than Grabovski in the shutdown role.

I'm not saying Grabovski can't produce but in order for him to be effectively worth the money he's making he needs to put up some better numbers. Maybe not amazing numbers, but better ones. That's not saying trade him, that's saying should he continue to not produce, the organization will have to make a decision.

Kessel, Gardiner, Kadri, Reimer, Frattin, Bozak, and more will have to be re-signed in the near future. Then factor in the hopes in bringing a #1C in, + another top four D. Having a shutdown C making 5.5M who's shutdown capabilities are replaceable isn't great for cap management.

I hope he picks it up though.

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02-22-2013, 04:39 PM
  #791
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Carter and Richards didn't come close to their best seasons in Phili last year when they were with LA, but they were huge in the cup win for the Kings
Watching Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Lidstrom shutting down Malkin and Crosby to win the Stanley Cup 07-08 was a thing of beauty.

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02-22-2013, 04:41 PM
  #792
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Scott Stevens goes from a high scoring defender to a Stanley Cup winner.
Scott Stevens also had two hall of famers in Niedermayer and Brodeur come along. Having Nieds allowed Stevens to be utilized and focused more every game on the defensive zone of the game.

I could see something similar happening in Toronto down the road with Phaneuf. Phaneuf is are everything minute dman right now but down the road he could see his offensive role decreased (which is already happening by having him switched to the left side) but this will be increased once Gardiner and Rielly start to make big impacts.

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02-22-2013, 04:54 PM
  #793
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Part of being a good shutdown line is playing hockey in the other teams end just not being good in your own end. If the Grabbo line has the puck and is putting the pressure in the offensive zone the other teams top line does not have the puck and cannot score so 2 ways to look at a shutdown line.

Now that being said there have been a few goals against where Grabbo was not in the right position down low in his zone or not hard enough on the puck but hopefully with a coach like RC will provide him with feedback to get better.
Don't forget last year RW had no concept of D just run and gun hockey so players now are adjusting to being in the right spot in the D zone.

So is Grabbo making tons of money for a checking centre sure but I don't see McClement being as good offensively to pin other big lines in the D zone. McClement is killer for us this year though.
People expect perfection and that's a LeafNation issue thinking mistakes or missed assignments wont occur if player X from another team they don't see game in and game out was in place of player Y on the Leafs. If people got to watch both Crosby and Malkin game in and game out they will be amazed at the amount of mistakes they make that result in goals against, point is there's no such thing as perfect mistake free hockey yet LeafNation expects it with how they turncoat on players which is a large list of players over time that have been criticized for nonsense other than the tunnel vision on mistakes they make with the blind eye of the good things they have done.

Grabo is a warrior and you would be hard pressed to find a skilled guy like him to compete as hard and take a challenge like this placed on his shoulders to play the hardest minutes from all the forwards and still be asked to be an offensive threat. For the most part he's been successful and will be HUGE come playoff time with such a player on the shutdown line.

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02-22-2013, 05:10 PM
  #794
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Weiss vs Grabovski

who would you rather have?

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02-22-2013, 06:30 PM
  #795
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who would you rather have?
grabo. weiss willl be looking for a similar contract to grabos and he is the lesser of the two . Not to mention, Florida tends to make their players look better than they are, but they turn up as 3rd liners on other teams or stop scoring as much (jokinen, horton, luongo,boumeester).

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02-22-2013, 07:53 PM
  #796
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I think we'll see trade activity pick up a couple of weeks before the deadline this season. Only 10 or so games after the deadline, I think teams will be looking to improve with 25 or so games left for their acquisitions to make a real impact to the playoff standings.

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02-22-2013, 09:56 PM
  #797
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Scott Stevens goes from a high scoring defender to a Stanley Cup winner.
I think every poster under 30 on these boards should be forced to study Stevens and Chelios' carreers.

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02-22-2013, 10:00 PM
  #798
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Scott Stevens also had two hall of famers in Niedermayer and Brodeur come along. Having Nieds allowed Stevens to be utilized and focused more every game on the defensive zone of the game.

I could see something similar happening in Toronto down the road with Phaneuf. Phaneuf is are everything minute dman right now but down the road he could see his offensive role decreased (which is already happening by having him switched to the left side) but this will be increased once Gardiner and Rielly start to make big impacts.


Thank you.

I have been saying that Phaneuf needs a more offensive D partner, contrary to the more popular get Dion a Defensive partner so Dion can go crazy on offense idea.

I think Dion is more valuable focussing on Defense and letting a Gardiner type do the rushing of the puck.

Now if Dion is ready to accept such a role is another row to hoe all together.

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02-22-2013, 10:05 PM
  #799
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I think we'll see trade activity pick up a couple of weeks before the deadline this season. Only 10 or so games after the deadline, I think teams will be looking to improve with 25 or so games left for their acquisitions to make a real impact to the playoff standings.
I'm flipping between the Nashville/Vancouver and SJ/Chicago games... Clowe looks decent, Luongo looks great, Kassian looks lost, and Bieksa left in the 2nd and didn't return from a lower body (leg) injury. Vancouver may be added to the list of teams in the market.

San Jose's up 1-0 now but if they don't win tonight they too might be interested in some sizable moves. I thinkn we might see a few teams (NYR, Edmonton, Colorado and Washington come to mind right away) engage well before the deadline. Think beginning of March.

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02-22-2013, 10:07 PM
  #800
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Thank you.

I have been saying that Phaneuf needs a more offensive D partner, contrary to the more popular get Dion a Defensive partner so Dion can go crazy on offense idea.

I think Dion is more valuable focussing on Defense and letting a Gardiner type do the rushing of the puck.

Now if Dion is ready to accept such a role is another row to hoe all together.
i am salivating over a Rielly-Phaneuf pairing down the road.

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