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Old
03-20-2005, 12:01 PM
  #1
Lowetide
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Choose Your Poison

Oilers management has teased the fan base a little over the last while by naming specific areas of improvement for next year (or whenever). Suggested were top line C and a puck moving defenseman. Doug Weight and Janne Niinimaa for lack of better examples.

The purpose of this thread isn't just to specify who you'd like to see (I think I saw igor mention Lindros and someone mentioned ufa Gonchar as a possibility. was that speeds?) in those spots, but what the Oilers might have to give up to get one or both of these players.

Assuming a ufa will be part of the equation (Tommy's 3.5 is a nice down payment on someone), what (honestly) do the Oilers have to offer in order to get the other piece of the puzzle?

Would the 2005 first round pick be attractive?

Do you think someone like Rob Schremp has enough value to be a big part of a deal like this?

What about Eric Brewer or Alexei Semenov? Remember, the Oilers gave lots of minutes to Cross (34 years old now) and Ulanov (36 in October) so some of that backline won't be around a long time once they start up again. Staios is 32 in July, Smith is 32 in November.

Would Woywitka or Lynch help get a deal done? Based on their current seasons?

Does Brad Isbister and his guaranteed 40 healthy games a season have value?

Is Georges Laraque part of this package?

What about Yaw-nee?

Ales Hemsky? It'll kill me but what about Ales Hemsky?


So, here's your question:


Which current Oiler, draft picks, Oilers prospect or any combination of same would you suggest the Oilers dangle in a deal for either a #1C or puck moving D?


Thanks in advance, and be as specific as you like about what may come back.

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03-20-2005, 01:07 PM
  #2
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Possible Players / Prospects / Picks

Nice question Lowetide....really got me thinking!

Current roster:

Eric Brewer becuase of the fact that he took the team to arbitration and more was expected of him and his price goes up and up and he isn't signed long term like Smith and Staios and with Lynch and Woywitka a year away, his value is pretty decent at the moment and I am sure I heard somewhere that Woywitka plays like Brew

Semenov - keys attributes - young and cheap (22 and makes less then 800 000) and a huge defenseman with physical abilities would command some interest.

Prospects

Niinimaki and or Schremp: becuase they are young and cheap (until you sign them of course) and could be packaged with vets to get a front liner

One of Lynch or Woywitka but noth both as you can't delpete the defenseman in AHL as Smith, Thompson will not be NHL regulars and you don't know how Greene and Gilbert will adapat to AHL and Woywitka and Lynch have 2 years AHL experience under there belt and are NHL ready

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03-20-2005, 01:40 PM
  #3
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Trade Brewer,Hemsky,Schremp and a first rounder for Olli Jokinen.

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Old
03-20-2005, 01:52 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodsport
Trade Brewer,Hemsky,Schremp and a first rounder for Olli Jokinen.
If I could reach through my computer screen and slap you right now, I would.

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Old
03-20-2005, 01:52 PM
  #5
Guy Flaming
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My targets:

Chicago's Cam Barker or Brent Seabrook (not both ).

Is this enough or too much? 2005 2nd round pick, Eric Brewer, Georges Laraque, Marty Reasoner, Brad Isbister and one of (Jani Rita, Tony Salmelainen or Alexei Mikhnov... the latter preferably). That's 4 veteran NHL players, a very good prospect for a organization with a lot of youth, and a very high draft pick. Chicago has Barker, Seabrook and Babchuk (and I don't want a Russian)... they've got excess on the blueline.

Barker or Seabrook would vault into the top 3 (if not the top spot) on EDM's top 20 list.


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Old
03-20-2005, 01:53 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodsport
Trade Brewer,Hemsky,Schremp and a first rounder for Olli Jokinen.
I think Florida would take the deal even minus the first rounder or Schremp..

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Old
03-20-2005, 02:07 PM
  #7
YKOil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Flaming
Is this enough or too much? 2005 2nd round pick, Eric Brewer, Georges Laraque, Marty Reasoner, Brad Isbister and one of (Jani Rita, Tony Salmelainen or Alexei Mikhnov... the latter preferably). That's 4 veteran NHL players, a very good prospect for a organization with a lot of youth, and a very high draft pick. Chicago has Barker, Seabrook and Babchuk (and I don't want a Russian)... they've got excess on the blueline.

Barker or Seabrook would vault into the top 3 (if not the top spot) on EDM's top 20 list.
Too much I would think. Brewer, Isbister, Rita and a 2nd should be more than enough to land a Cam Barker (we're not talking about a Bouwmeester or a Phaneuf here). We MIGHT have to pick up another player in the deal from Chicago if they have anyone they want to salary dump and just don't value that highly.

Barker and Seabrooke might not turn out any better than Brewer after all is said and done.

Brewer, Hemsky, Schremp would be LOTS (i.e. too much) for Jokinen as well.


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Old
03-20-2005, 02:09 PM
  #8
Guy Flaming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YKOil
Too much I would think. Brewer, Isbister, Rita and a 2nd should be more than enough to land a Cam Barker (we're not talking about a Bouwmeester or a Phaneuf here). We MIGHT have to pick up another player in the deal from Chicago if they have anyone they want to salary dump and just don't value that highly.

Barker and Seabrooke might not turn out any better than Brewer after all is said and done.

Brewer, Hemsky, Schremp would be LOTS (i.e. too much) for Jokinen as well.


YKOil
Funny, I had him in my original post and then pulled him out because I don't think FLA would move him ever. But he was in my mind too.

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Old
03-20-2005, 02:27 PM
  #9
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OT- sorry

Ha ha. I just saw your location Guy and the first thing I thought was. Oh man. That would suck. Why would anyone want to be in the press box.

Then I saw who.

Don't mind me. I'm sleepy.

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Old
03-20-2005, 02:31 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Flaming
My targets:

Chicago's Cam Barker or Brent Seabrook (not both ).

Is this enough or too much? 2005 2nd round pick, Eric Brewer, Georges Laraque, Marty Reasoner, Brad Isbister and one of (Jani Rita, Tony Salmelainen or Alexei Mikhnov... the latter preferably). That's 4 veteran NHL players, a very good prospect for a organization with a lot of youth, and a very high draft pick. Chicago has Barker, Seabrook and Babchuk (and I don't want a Russian)... they've got excess on the blueline.

Barker or Seabrook would vault into the top 3 (if not the top spot) on EDM's top 20 list.
I don't think Barker would get dealt, simply because it seems that once a team has made a commitment to a player, they're loath to alter the situatin. Excluding extenuating circumstances (Berard for Redden), the only non-Milbury high selection I can remember being moved is Chris Pronger.

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Old
03-20-2005, 03:12 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowetide
Oilers management has teased the fan base a little over the last while by naming specific areas of improvement for next year (or whenever). Suggested were top line C and a puck moving defenseman. Doug Weight and Janne Niinimaa for lack of better examples.

The purpose of this thread isn't just to specify who you'd like to see (I think I saw igor mention Lindros and someone mentioned ufa Gonchar as a possibility. was that speeds?) in those spots, but what the Oilers might have to give up to get one or both of these players.

Assuming a ufa will be part of the equation (Tommy's 3.5 is a nice down payment on someone), what (honestly) do the Oilers have to offer in order to get the other piece of the puzzle?

Would the 2005 first round pick be attractive?

Do you think someone like Rob Schremp has enough value to be a big part of a deal like this?

What about Eric Brewer or Alexei Semenov? Remember, the Oilers gave lots of minutes to Cross (34 years old now) and Ulanov (36 in October) so some of that backline won't be around a long time once they start up again. Staios is 32 in July, Smith is 32 in November.

Would Woywitka or Lynch help get a deal done? Based on their current seasons?

Does Brad Isbister and his guaranteed 40 healthy games a season have value?

Is Georges Laraque part of this package?

What about Yaw-nee?

Ales Hemsky? It'll kill me but what about Ales Hemsky?


So, here's your question:


Which current Oiler, draft picks, Oilers prospect or any combination of same would you suggest the Oilers dangle in a deal for either a #1C or puck moving D?


Thanks in advance, and be as specific as you like about what may come back.

Brewer - I think he's a keeper. For all his faults, he's still relatively young and at the very least is a decent #2 or #3 (not saying he won't improve). A problem with him is that there's too much offensive burden placed on him. If a true offensive D can be found, he can shift his game to a more defensive role and I think that suits him more. With the new CBA, I don't think his salary will be going up much in the near future.

Isbister - keeper. Simply b/c he's at an absolute rock bottom and I don't think he's worth anything in the trade market.

Hemsky - definitely a keeper. If (BIG IF) everything goes right he's our future franchise. Perhaps even our #1 C.

Laraque - trade him. After all these years, he is what he is - a 4th line grinder who shows up 5 games per year. I think his worth is based on his reputation and perhaps as a marketing tool, esp to some non-traditional hockey markets. And if the NHL is serious about opening up the game, he's dead weight.

Schremp - trade him. His value is arguably at a high right now. With a bunch of stars in London graduating this year, all his flaws will be exposed next season. However, somehow I have a feeling that he's just not valued too highly around the NHL...

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Old
03-20-2005, 03:47 PM
  #12
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Mike York.

I know someone will be all over me for the suggestion, but I'd argue he's our most valuable trading piece. We have 3 left wingers that want top 2 line minutes (Smyth, Torres, York). Lowe loves Torres, the city loves Smyth, and while both love York, I think it's fair to say that he has more value than either. I also really don't like seeing him play center.. he gets beat up, and IMO is much better suited to the wing. Unless the coaching staff thinks they could convert him to a RW though, I think he'd be the guy to deal.. combined with a mid round pick he could very likely pick up a good quality center who's a bit of a salary dump.

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Old
03-20-2005, 04:08 PM
  #13
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I don't follow other teams enough to name who we need but what we need is an offensive centre. I am willing to wait a little longer on the d to see if we have a homegrowner but the centre position needs to be addressed. What am I willing to give up?

Well the usual list of suspects will not get us there but there is a surplus of 3rd and 4th liners who could all be added in to even things out. I have been trying to trade Georges forever and although I really like things about every other 3rd and 4th liner on this team they are what they are and we have too many so we have options.

I would offer Jason Smith and our first round pick in 2005. We have a lot of guys in the pipleline and another guy in the pipeline is just that. He could turn into anything from a bust to a star. But you can only develop so many at a time and the whole point of stockpiling them is to use them as pieces to upgrade if possible.

Jason Smith? Nothing against Smith at all. I just think that we will never see how good Brewer can be until he is the undisputed leader on the back end. IMO his personality will never allow him to seize control from the captain and you will only see him reach potential if you place the burden on his shoulders. IMO he played his best hockey last year from about the fifth game after Smith went down and he looked around and realized if he didn't do it it wasn't going to get done. I would not give up on Brewer - I would clear his path a little.

I think with Smith and a first rounder plus a serviceable 3rd liner you can go shopping and pick up an under 25 year old offensive centre who looks like he is on the verge of figuring it out. Who that is I don't know.

Thank you Lowetide for rescuing me from the cba. Sometimes I think I am still at work when I come here this season. All business - no hockey.

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Old
03-20-2005, 04:48 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choppystride
Hemsky - definitely a keeper. If (BIG IF) everything goes right he's our future franchise. Perhaps even our #1 C.
Hemsky's not a centerman...

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Old
03-20-2005, 04:49 PM
  #15
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Puck moving D? Use part of Salo's contract and sign Mironov (he is a UFA, right?).

Then, offer St.Louis Isbister, Lynch and 1st rounder for Weight, provided Edmonton doesn't pay more than 5.5 for Weight.

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03-20-2005, 05:41 PM
  #16
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I really do beleive the Oilers are going to go after Eric Lindros again. I like the idea of the SLY line. I think the big E is one of the players who has benifited most from this lock-out by allowing him valuable time to heal his wounded brain. The Oilers would be the perfect place for him to resurect his career. He is a solid two way player with hands. He also completes our first line.

The only downside is that Eric wants to play for the laughs... We can hope though.

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Old
03-20-2005, 07:00 PM
  #17
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Smith, Rita, and 2nd for Handzus
sign Oleg Tverdovsky , he's 29 ; league will decide draft pick compensation 2006;

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Old
03-20-2005, 07:30 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilersRRRock/Kim
Smith, Rita, and 2nd for Handzus
sign Oleg Tverdovsky , he's 29 ; league will decide draft pick compensation 2006;

No way can we afford to pry Oleg out of Russia. He makes 3 million US tax free. We can't match that

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Old
03-20-2005, 07:36 PM
  #19
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I'd be willing to deal these guys ahead of these guys:

Smith, Staios, York, Reasoner, Isbister, Laraque, Dvorak

ahead of

Hemsky, Torres, Semenov, Brewer, Smyth, Moreau

The two most attractive assets in the first group are, in my opinion, York and Smith. I think both players would fill a need for a lot of teams. Smith is a steady second pairing defenseman. He's a leader, he's tough, he plays through pain and doesn't have any baggage. York is a good scoring winger who can play all 3 forward positions and he'd also relatively young. Due to injury we have never seen him at (or even near) 100% in a playoff situation. He does have a little bit of an injury history developing having missed 33 games over the last two seasons. I'm a very big York fan, but if it comes down to it I would trade him. He has value. The other guys don't have a high value.

I would think a trade for a guy like Jokinen would cost J. Smith and M. York, I'd go a little higher, but not much. I don't think Florida could expect more than that. The thing with Jokinen is that he's Florida's captain, he's affordable and he's not old.

A top 6 of Smyth, Jokinen, Hemsky
Torres, Horcoff, Dvorak
would be an improvement for sure.

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Old
03-20-2005, 07:55 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilersRRRock/Kim
Smith, Rita, and 2nd for Handzus
sign Oleg Tverdovsky , he's 29 ; league will decide draft pick compensation 2006;
I agree that we should trade for Zeus. That would be ausome.

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Old
03-20-2005, 08:11 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Flaming
My targets:

Chicago's Cam Barker or Brent Seabrook (not both ).

Is this enough or too much? 2005 2nd round pick, Eric Brewer, Georges Laraque, Marty Reasoner, Brad Isbister and one of (Jani Rita, Tony Salmelainen or Alexei Mikhnov... the latter preferably). That's 4 veteran NHL players, a very good prospect for a organization with a lot of youth, and a very high draft pick. Chicago has Barker, Seabrook and Babchuk (and I don't want a Russian)... they've got excess on the blueline.

Barker or Seabrook would vault into the top 3 (if not the top spot) on EDM's top 20 list.
I was a huge fan of Seabrook and was very disappointed when chicago selected him so much earlier than I thought he would go. He is the exact type of defenceman that this organization needs. Chicago has two very good offensive guys in Barker and Seabrook. Do you think that they would trade for Woywitka or Lynch? We would have to add in a little more however I believe that they would be interested in something like that. I think that Barker is out of reach as he was just drafted and was drafted so high.

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Old
03-20-2005, 09:59 PM
  #22
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I don't think this team can afford to lose either Smith or Brewer. Cross and Ulanov don't have many years left in their careers, and I don't see either of them here 2 years from now. Woywitka, Lynch, and Greene are promising young defencemen, but I wouldn't want to see a defense that's that inexperienced. Especially when you already have Semenov and Bergeron in the fold.

Defence is definately a strong point in the system, but rather than throwing around names like Smith and Brewer, we should be thinking about Lynch, Woywitka, and Semenov (although this is probably the wrong place to suggest that).

IMO, the best option is to target a team who will be forced to rebuild due to a new economic system in the NHL (St. Louis, Detroit, Toronto, Philly, Dallas, etc.), or a team currently in a rebuild and offer a package of picks and prospects, and maybe a few spare parts for players they will need to shed for salary reasons anyway. Rather than targeting the young players that teams will want to hold on to, the focus should be on guys who can help the team now like Weight, Roenick, Niewendyk, Arnott, Lang (at reduced rates of course).

I'm sure any one of those teams would rather have some good young prospects and draft picks for these players over being forced to buy them out and get nothing in return.

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Old
03-20-2005, 10:24 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit
I don't think this team can afford to lose either Smith or Brewer. Cross and Ulanov don't have many years left in their careers, and I don't see either of them here 2 years from now. Woywitka, Lynch, and Greene are promising young defencemen, but I wouldn't want to see a defense that's that inexperienced. Especially when you already have Semenov and Bergeron in the fold.

Defence is definately a strong point in the system, but rather than throwing around names like Smith and Brewer, we should be thinking about Lynch, Woywitka, and Semenov (although this is probably the wrong place to suggest that).

IMO, the best option is to target a team who will be forced to rebuild due to a new economic system in the NHL (St. Louis, Detroit, Toronto, Philly, Dallas, etc.), or a team currently in a rebuild and offer a package of picks and prospects, and maybe a few spare parts for players they will need to shed for salary reasons anyway. Rather than targeting the young players that teams will want to hold on to, the focus should be on guys who can help the team now like Weight, Roenick, Niewendyk, Arnott, Lang (at reduced rates of course).

I'm sure any one of those teams would rather have some good young prospects and draft picks for these players over being forced to buy them out and get nothing in return.
I'm going to disagree Misfit. I agree that losing Smith would leave a big hole but one of Lowe's strengths has been finding those Cross, Staios, and Ulanov players. Finding another one while waiting to see what emerges from the triumvirate of Lynch, Woywitka and Greene does not seem to me to be such a stretch and although I don't think they will match Smith I think it will allow Brewer to emerge. I do not want to give up on any of the youth yet because they have not yet sorted themselves out yet in terms of long term worth and I do believe that trading them off for short term minor improvement will take us back to the last days of the Sather regime where we could sneak into the playoffs to disappoint perpetually. I want Lowe to go for the cup and that requires a core group growing together in the economic climate that is Edmonton.

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03-21-2005, 02:12 AM
  #24
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I agree that Smith can be replaced. First off, this is Ryan Smyth's team. He's brutal in interviews, but he's the face of the Oilers and the on ice leader. Moreau and Staios also play big roles on that front.

Look what it took for Calgary to get Andrew Ference. All you have to do is pick up a guy when his value is lowest. The real question is whether Semenov can step into a 20Min/Game role when play resumes. I'm betting he can. I think if they were to deal Smith they'd have to bring in another body and give Woywitka and Lynch both another year in the AHL. If they believe one of them (likely Woywitka) can step in and play 40 games then they might just go with what they have. Brewer, Semenov, Staios and Ulanov are a decent top-4 and Bergeron and Cross can play the 5-6 roles just fine.

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03-21-2005, 02:16 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM
I agree that Smith can be replaced. First off, this is Ryan Smyth's team. He's brutal in interviews, but he's the face of the Oilers and the on ice leader. Moreau and Staios also play big roles on that front.

Look what it took for Calgary to get Andrew Ference. All you have to do is pick up a guy when his value is lowest. The real question is whether Semenov can step into a 20Min/Game role when play resumes. I'm betting he can. I think if they were to deal Smith they'd have to bring in another body and give Woywitka and Lynch both another year in the AHL. If they believe one of them (likely Woywitka) can step in and play 40 games then they might just go with what they have. Brewer, Semenov, Staios and Ulanov are a decent top-4 and Bergeron and Cross can play the 5-6 roles just fine.
Won't happen. Every Oilers player is undervalued by the other 29 teams. To get a good players, the Oilers would have to overpay big time and they'll be fleeced and the other GM will go away laughing. The Oilers will be lucky to get a decent prospect from the other team as that's how the players on the Oilers are undervalued by the other 20 teams.

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