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It's Time to Tank: Who Gets Moved

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Old
04-02-2013, 06:48 AM
  #601
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Can we stop winning games already! Just our luck win when we want to lose! Although we are still mathematically in it there are just way too many teams to leap frog so it cannot be done. How are teams letting us beat them? Come to play and and keep us at the bottom please! And Craparelli, you better not win us another game like you did the other day!

I'd rather suffer 12 more games and reap the benefits of adding Mac & Bjugs to the team next season!
The next game against the Bolts will probably be a make or break for the tank..
Calgary and Colorado both continue to lose their respective games.

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04-02-2013, 09:14 AM
  #602
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we have already secured ourelves a top 5 pick rather we keep winning markstrom doing spectacular and huberdeau doing his thing. No id rather see our team come together now as a sign that theyre going to hit the ground running next season.

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04-02-2013, 10:25 AM
  #603
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Originally Posted by KWGoon View Post
According to CapGeek, Panthers are 20th in spending. That means they are below average, which by my definition, PARTICULARLY in the context of how well DT has set the team up for the next several years, equals being cheap.

Yormark sets the tone for earnings by the corporation, and he's tone deaf. Thus it affects the franchise's future adversely. Also, I disagree that fans need to turn out FIRST to fund the possibility that the team may subsequently succeed, buoyed by the influx of cash it generates. No. Real hockey team owners realize that they have to put a consistently winning product on ice FIRST, and people will come after that. The owners take the risk, and if they do well, they will reap the rewards. It's quite simple.

This team got a major break that -- given all the injuries -- this is a short season. It's almost a freebie for them to tank one more time. But starting next season they must start to deliver or they'll lose the interest of the people and the young core. Thus spending the extra $5M or so is actually quite critical.
Im going to split the Baby between You and Coolburn.

Yormark has very little if anything to do with our success. In fact since he can sell ice cubes to eskimos, his maintaining of advertising streams lends to keeping team afloat. That doesn't exonerate him from ridiculous moves like not improving the minitron and the timing/placement of club dead. That said, you cant tie him to "the franchise success.

"They need the fan turnout to actually afford to spend more and that's not happening unless we are PERENNIAL winners, which isn't happening right now ...... When we are that, I'm sure our owners will spend more" Ridiculous. You don't get customers first, and then have the capital to put out a good product. You put up an entertaining product, and THEN the fans will come. See Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago Boston. Empty arenas when the product sucked. SPEND THE MONEY PUT OUT A GOOD PRODUCT AND THE ARENA WILL SELL OUT...JUST LOOK SOUTH TOWARDS THE AA ARENA. Or look back in history how the Miami arena sold out and then our arena sold out the first couple of years prior to the teams demise.

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04-02-2013, 10:28 AM
  #604
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Originally Posted by PanthersHockey1 View Post
we have already secured ourelves a top 5 pick rather we keep winning markstrom doing spectacular and huberdeau doing his thing. No id rather see our team come together now as a sign that theyre going to hit the ground running next season.
100% correct. Those 2 gaining confidence >>> a couple of spots either way.

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04-02-2013, 10:33 AM
  #605
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Panthers have recalled Greg Rallo again. Far as I know, no one knew is hurt, this implies a forward getting moved soon. Not that that's surprising or anything.

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04-02-2013, 10:43 AM
  #606
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Panthers have recalled Greg Rallo again. Far as I know, no one knew is hurt, this implies a forward getting moved soon. Not that that's surprising or anything.
The obvious would be UFAs Smithson or Santorelli, maybe Goc if the right offer came along.

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04-02-2013, 10:50 AM
  #607
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The obvious would be UFAs Smithson or Santorelli, maybe Goc if the right offer came along.
Gonna bet Smithson. Im going to also bet Goc is kept; ownership loves him.

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04-02-2013, 10:52 AM
  #608
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Gonna bet Smithson. Im going to also bet Goc is kept; ownership loves him.
I'm guessing it's Smithson too, probably a 4th/5th round pick.

Santo has no value what so ever, maybe a conditional 7th lol.

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04-02-2013, 10:55 AM
  #609
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Originally Posted by KWGoon View Post
If the Panthers had an owner/owners who didn't impose their own artificial salary cap, and a team president who actually makes decisions based on hockey success, this would be one of the most desirable destinations for FAs, especially forwards.

1) Young talent with more young talent yet to come -- check
2) Expected to get better each year -- check
3) Lacking an established (Hubie hopefully to be there soon though) big time forward right now -- check
4) If player development is done right, yearly playoff team -- check
5) If player development is done really right, possible top 3 team year after year for quite some time -- check

Any other team GM outside of Penguins, Bruins, and Chicago would love to be in DT's shoes right now. Their options would be wide open. EXCEPT for the stingy know nothing owners and the clueless low-IQ president.
Also:
1) No state income tax
2) Beautiful women and good weather
3) You can live somewhat of a normal life as a pro athlete since you won't be recognized

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04-02-2013, 11:23 AM
  #610
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May have jumped the gun on anything yet:

#FlaPanthers recall Greg Rallo ... Drew Shore questionable for #tbLightning

From GR on twitter.

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04-02-2013, 12:47 PM
  #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
"They need the fan turnout to actually afford to spend more and that's not happening unless we are PERENNIAL winners, which isn't happening right now ...... When we are that, I'm sure our owners will spend more" Ridiculous. You don't get customers first, and then have the capital to put out a good product. You put up an entertaining product, and THEN the fans will come. See Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago Boston. Empty arenas when the product sucked. SPEND THE MONEY PUT OUT A GOOD PRODUCT AND THE ARENA WILL SELL OUT...JUST LOOK SOUTH TOWARDS THE AA ARENA. Or look back in history how the Miami arena sold out and then our arena sold out the first couple of years prior to the teams demise.
This probably isnt the best place for this discussion but (and this is since I'm an IT guy) I'll just say, look at it like we're a startup business. As a startup business, no one can afford to spend $10,000,000 (exaggeration yes) until you have customers that are interested in what you're selling. As a startup, you build slowly and then as you start making money, you can reinvest it back into the company. If you spent that much money as a startup and had minimal customer support, you would just be losing money. So lets make a deal if you think we should be spending money like Pittsburgh, Washington, Boston, etc, you give me $10,000 right now and maybe I'll be able to give you that $10,000 back with interest and maybe not. You willing to take that bet right now cause I'd love $10,000

We're not a market here in south FL that is traditional in any way. Even our AA Arena with the defending champion Miami Heat has been empty to start a game because people dont care to be there that early (that doesnt happen in another market IMO). So what if we do like the NY Rangers did for many yrs and just spend money and not get good value and were still a bad team? They could do that because their market & fan base wouldnt care (another exaggeration) and just keep going. If we're a bad team, it doesnt matter how much money is being spent, no one is gonna come.

When the Heat spent the money they did, they did it by getting the #1 player in the league, a top 5 player in the league and then a top 15 player in the league. You cant even do the equivalent in hockey because those first 2 players are almost never available in free agency. It would be the equivalent of signing Crosby, Malkin and like Shea Weber all at the same time, it'll never happen in our lives I bet. The teams you mentioned, mostly developed their own talent that they selected early in the draft too. Crosby & Malkin were top picks in 2 consecutive drafts, Chicago drafted Kane & Toews in 2 consecutive drafts, Washington took Ovechkin #1 overall and got Backstrom 2 yrs later at #4, Boston was able to parlay a young player in Kessel into 2 first rounders and one turned into Seguin all while they developed Bergeron, Krejci, Lucic, Marchard from their own draft picks. All those teams you highlighted as big spenders are also teams that had high draft picks that turned into superstar players. If we get the same thing, then we can be spenders too (hopefully Huberdeau is one superstar and we can get another this yr).

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04-02-2013, 01:11 PM
  #612
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Good post Coolburn. I'd also like to add that spending money in the NHL is a lot riskier than spending it in the NBA. There are more variables in hockey that determine success and we simply can't afford to take on that risk at this point in time. When we do invest in big money into a player, it will be via a trade (imo) like we did with Campbell. The time isn't right yet to splurge on a big name free agent either. There isn't much out there unless you wanted a guy like Mike Ribeiro.

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04-02-2013, 01:18 PM
  #613
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Jagr is now a BRUIN.

Derek Roy is now a CANUCK.

Let the Deadline Drama begin. Is the Cup going to an EAST or WEST team this year?

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04-02-2013, 01:37 PM
  #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
This probably isnt the best place for this discussion but (and this is since I'm an IT guy) I'll just say, look at it like we're a startup business. As a startup business, no one can afford to spend $10,000,000 (exaggeration yes) until you have customers that are interested in what you're selling. As a startup, you build slowly and then as you start making money, you can reinvest it back into the company. If you spent that much money as a startup and had minimal customer support, you would just be losing money. So lets make a deal if you think we should be spending money like Pittsburgh, Washington, Boston, etc, you give me $10,000 right now and maybe I'll be able to give you that $10,000 back with interest and maybe not. You willing to take that bet right now cause I'd love $10,000

We're not a market here in south FL that is traditional in any way. Even our AA Arena with the defending champion Miami Heat has been empty to start a game because people dont care to be there that early (that doesnt happen in another market IMO). So what if we do like the NY Rangers did for many yrs and just spend money and not get good value and were still a bad team? They could do that because their market & fan base wouldnt care (another exaggeration) and just keep going. If we're a bad team, it doesnt matter how much money is being spent, no one is gonna come.

When the Heat spent the money they did, they did it by getting the #1 player in the league, a top 5 player in the league and then a top 15 player in the league. You cant even do the equivalent in hockey because those first 2 players are almost never available in free agency. It would be the equivalent of signing Crosby, Malkin and like Shea Weber all at the same time, it'll never happen in our lives I bet. The teams you mentioned, mostly developed their own talent that they selected early in the draft too. Crosby & Malkin were top picks in 2 consecutive drafts, Chicago drafted Kane & Toews in 2 consecutive drafts, Washington took Ovechkin #1 overall and got Backstrom 2 yrs later at #4, Boston was able to parlay a young player in Kessel into 2 first rounders and one turned into Seguin all while they developed Bergeron, Krejci, Lucic, Marchard from their own draft picks. All those teams you highlighted as big spenders are also teams that had high draft picks that turned into superstar players. If we get the same thing, then we can be spenders too (hopefully Huberdeau is one superstar and we can get another this yr).
Thank you for your detailed response.

The investor has to understand his risk, his working capital, etc prior to his investment. If he has the tolerence, great. No one has asked Cliff to spend indiscriminately.

How we get a good product is irrelevant to me, through FA, or draft, or trade. If its through draft, as we basically are, and that keeps spending down that's just fine by me. My only point is DONT EXPECT FANS TO COME OUT AS SOME SORT OF ENTITLEMENT UNTIL THE PRODUCT TURNS. Again Im fine with home grown and filling in; I just laugh when people think the fans should pay to attend while we suck out of some kind of loyalty.

Entertain, and they shall come.


Last edited by adam graves: 04-02-2013 at 01:45 PM.
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04-02-2013, 01:38 PM
  #615
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Good post Coolburn. I'd also like to add that spending money in the NHL is a lot riskier than spending it in the NBA. There are more variables in hockey that determine success and we simply can't afford to take on that risk at this point in time. When we do invest in big money into a player, it will be via a trade (imo) like we did with Campbell. The time isn't right yet to splurge on a big name free agent either. There isn't much out there unless you wanted a guy like Mike Ribeiro.
I didn't ask Cliff to buy the team, its his risk. I risk 5000 every year that ill be entertained. Comes a time ill stop my risk.

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04-02-2013, 01:38 PM
  #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Good post Coolburn. I'd also like to add that spending money in the NHL is a lot riskier than spending it in the NBA. There are more variables in hockey that determine success and we simply can't afford to take on that risk at this point in time. When we do invest in big money into a player, it will be via a trade (imo) like we did with Campbell. The time isn't right yet to splurge on a big name free agent either. There isn't much out there unless you wanted a guy like Mike Ribeiro.
Agreed and if you look at it, this summer could be a good way to trade for some top end talent (potentially). In the NHL, the best way to acquire good talent that you didnt draft is more frequently done via trades. Look at LA last yr, they drafted Kopitar, Doughty, Brown but traded for guys like Carter and Richards. I think the only key guy from their team last yr that was signed as a free agent was Willie Mitchell and he wasnt really a top free agent either.

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04-02-2013, 01:40 PM
  #617
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I didn't ask Cliff to buy the team, its his risk. I risk 5000 every year that ill be entertained. Comes a time ill stop my risk.
He might have more patience than you.

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04-02-2013, 01:42 PM
  #618
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Agreed and if you look at it, this summer could be a good way to trade for some top end talent (potentially). In the NHL, the best way to acquire good talent that you didnt draft is more frequently done via trades. Look at LA last yr, they drafted Kopitar, Doughty, Brown but traded for guys like Carter and Richards. I think the only key guy from their team last yr that was signed as a free agent was Willie Mitchell and he wasnt really a top free agent either.
Yup, and with the cap coming down, teams will have to move players to make space. We should be looking for another Campbell type trade, imo.

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04-02-2013, 01:43 PM
  #619
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I would be trying to get rid of Upshall and Kuba right now. Get whatever we can at this point.

I can't believe both have a NMC.

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04-02-2013, 01:50 PM
  #620
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He might have more patience than you.
I speak to him frequently, he is very accessible between periods, and enjoys talking to fans between periods. Like the guy.

Not sure if he has the financial depth to sustain a winning product, but I hope he does hes a good fan. He even joined us in cheering post game last yr.

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04-02-2013, 01:55 PM
  #621
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I didn't ask Cliff to buy the team, its his risk. I risk 5000 every year that ill be entertained. Comes a time ill stop my risk.
Soooo for 17 years even at a $4,000 annual average considering inflation, you've spent how much on Florida Panthers tickets/gas/food/jerseys/hats/etc?

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04-02-2013, 02:01 PM
  #622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
How we get a good product is irrelevant to me. If its through draft, as we basically are, and that keeps spending down that's just fine by me. My only point is DONT EXPECT FANS TO COME OUT AS SOME SORT OF ENTITLEMENT UNTIL THE PRODUCT TURNS. Again Im fine with home grown and filling in; I just laugh when people think the fans should pay to attend while we suck out of some kind of loyalty.

Entertain, and they shall come.
Do you think they all just expect fans to come out while the product isnt top notch though? I think thats where there's a disconnect here in that no one was saying they expect the fans to come out to support a losing team. Otherwise, our ticket prices wouldnt be as low as they are right now. No one market in the NHL could you get season tickets for the price you're talking about.

And no team is ever assured of being an entertaining product, even if they are a top spender. Everyone takes a risk as a STH, hoping they are entertained. Honestly (and I said this last yr before we even started the season), even if we're not winning, I can be entertained if we're competitive night-in and night-out. How we've played in the last 2 weeks is what I call entertaining and we've basically been a .500 team at 4-4. So what I'm saying is entertaining does not need to equal winning even though we know that winning does equal entertaining (for the most part)...you can be entertained without the actual winning if the team is showing heart on the ice IMO. That heart was missing for most of this season and it made the losing worse if you ask me.

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04-02-2013, 02:04 PM
  #623
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Soooo for 17 years even at a $4,000 annual average considering inflation, you've spent how much on Florida Panthers tickets/gas/food/jerseys/hats/etc?
Don't make him think about that its painful and I've only had tickets for 6 years. lol

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04-02-2013, 02:16 PM
  #624
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I speak to him frequently, he is very accessible between periods, and enjoys talking to fans between periods. Like the guy.

Not sure if he has the financial depth to sustain a winning product, but I hope he does hes a good fan. He even joined us in cheering post game last yr.
You speak to Viner often? I don't suppose you have his email or phone numbee( office # is good) I'd like to speak to him myself but I haven't gone to a game in awhile and nothing is listed online

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04-02-2013, 03:41 PM
  #625
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Soooo for 17 years even at a $4,000 annual average considering inflation, you've spent how much on Florida Panthers tickets/gas/food/jerseys/hats/etc?
Don't remind me.

But honestly have raised my kids in that arena and I would do it all over again.


Perhaps next time with a better product tho?

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