HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Jarmo might trade Jack Johnson.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-20-2013, 12:41 AM
  #251
glovesave_35
Name
 
glovesave_35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Korea
Country: United States
Posts: 15,010
vCash: 250
Never been a big fan of Jack Johnson. I have a feeling he'll be traded by the draft.

glovesave_35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2013, 06:50 AM
  #252
EucaLEAFtys
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: In the Underdark
Posts: 2,332
vCash: 500
I haven't read the entire thread, so I don't know if the following idea has even been considered:

If Jack Johnson is a black-hole defensively, rather than thinking about trading him, why not convert him into a winger? He probably wouldn't be as much of a defensive liability as a winger and, as a winger, he could be an offensive threat.

Make him a winger, and if that doesn't improve his game in any way, then trade him. Either that, or get someone who can teach him how to be a defensively responsible defenceman.

Since it currently looks highly likely that Columbus will end up in the bottom 5 this season, why not try this experiment? There's really nothing for Columbus to lose at this point; if it diesn't work out, then JJ can get traded in theh summer.

EucaLEAFtys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2013, 08:23 AM
  #253
Double-Shift Lassé
Moderator
Just post better
 
Double-Shift Lassé's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Superurban Cbus
Country: United States
Posts: 17,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
NO offense - but you need 6 d-men. Add in - in the VAST majority of cases, d-men aren't ready to carry the load as teenagers. It's REALLY rare for d-men to be able to anchor a blueline until at LEAST 22+, which means that Murray and Seth Jones (potentially) MIGHT be ready in 2016-2017. Add in, it's REALLY helpful to have a vet who can help ease them into that role. From everything I've heard, Johnson is a very good teammate who has REALLY embraced his role on a rebuilding team.

Also, he's locked up to a great contract for a LONG time. Given that CLM is unlikely to be able to attract the upper tier UFA's, that's a HUGE benefit.


Just from my perspective, JJ catches a lot of grief for having a reputation as being bad defensively. I haven't seen that since he's come to CLM, and I think he'd have very strong value if it came to a trade. He's obviously not a "perfect" d-man, but given the fact that he's logging a TON of minutes on the worst team in the league, there are going to be pretty rough stats.

I think that the thread title is terrible. Obviously, Jarmo "might" trade anyone on the Jackets roster. I don't see how JJ is any more likely to be dealt than anyone else. The thought that the Jackets should trade everyone that has value is ludicrious. All that guarantees is that they get brutalized for an extended period of time and they don't have framework to add their talented prospects too. You get an Islanders type situation where the young guys are just thrown to the wolves. That's not good for development IMO.
Great post, but I've bolded the part most integral to the discussion. I guess this thread has given us a good time reading posts by people who don't watch him play, though, so good on the OP I guess.

I await the next great (fill in blanks) "someone" "might do" "something" thread. It's like Mad Libs!

__________________
"Every game, every point is a necessity." -- Ty Conklin, January 2007
"I'll have a chance to compete for the post of first issue. This is the most important thing." -- Sergei Bobrovsky, June 2012
Double-Shift Lassé is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2013, 09:12 AM
  #254
CornKicker
Locked Out
 
CornKicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,464
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
I sure hope Jarmo doesn't put much stock into advanced stats. I know he has said he does which greatly worries me.

Advanced stats are like the horoscopes of sports.
lol i agree completely, thay can help to get a good idea of a player compared to peers but until these stats take into account compete levels and heart they can cram their stats.

CornKicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2013, 09:56 AM
  #255
fsanford
Registered User
 
fsanford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,376
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
Great post, but I've bolded the part most integral to the discussion. I guess this thread has given us a good time reading posts by people who don't watch him play, though, so good on the OP I guess.

I await the next great (fill in blanks) "someone" "might do" "something" thread. It's like Mad Libs!
Watched JJ pretty much every game with the Kings. I like many, really like Jack the guy, team USA etc, unfortunately it blinded us to Jack the player.

The guy had a tendency to just make bad mistakes at the worst possible time.
There were streaks, where you would say there is JMFJ, there is a top line defensmen, but they did not last long. The longer streaks were the Kings fishing the puck out of the net, and crowd yelling c'mon Jack.

Columbus is still in a honeymoon period with this guy, let them be married a couple of years and see what they will say then.

Checking this years stats, Jack sits at a -8 through what 15 games.. Now Columbus fan will say "but he does so much more." Its not unlike King fans trying to defend him. Its more about reputation than ability.

The fact of the matter is the guy contributes more to losses than to win's on a night in night out basis. It would not surprise me if Columbus looked to move him

fsanford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2013, 10:01 AM
  #256
Fro
Yes Cbus has hockey
 
Fro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Drinking With Carts
Country: United States
Posts: 14,435
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsanford View Post
Watched JJ pretty much every game with the Kings. I like many, really like Jack the guy, team USA etc, unfortunately it blinded us to Jack the player.

The guy had a tendency to just make bad mistakes at the worst possible time.
There were streaks, where you would say there is JMFJ, there is a top line defensmen, but they did not last long. The longer streaks were the Kings fishing the puck out of the net, and crowd yelling c'mon Jack.

Columbus is still in a honeymoon period with this guy, let them be married a couple of years and see what they will say then.

Checking this years stats, Jack sits at a -8 through what 15 games.. Now Columbus fan will say "but he does so much more." Its not unlike King fans trying to defend him. Its more about reputation than ability.

The fact of the matter is the guy contributes more to losses than to win's on a night in night out basis. It would not surprise me if Columbus looked to move him
you have a point...and time will tell...but on a team lacking top end scoring threats, its hard to be a plus...

Fro is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2013, 10:02 AM
  #257
Gagnefan924
Need Moar AmericanZ
 
Gagnefan924's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsanford View Post
Watched JJ pretty much every game with the Kings. I like many, really like Jack the guy, team USA etc, unfortunately it blinded us to Jack the player.

The guy had a tendency to just make bad mistakes at the worst possible time.
There were streaks, where you would say there is JMFJ, there is a top line defensmen, but they did not last long. The longer streaks were the Kings fishing the puck out of the net, and crowd yelling c'mon Jack.

Columbus is still in a honeymoon period with this guy, let them be married a couple of years and see what they will say then.

Checking this years stats, Jack sits at a -8 through what 15 games.. Now Columbus fan will say "but he does so much more." Its not unlike King fans trying to defend him. Its more about reputation than ability.

The fact of the matter is the guy contributes more to losses than to win's on a night in night out basis. It would not surprise me if Columbus looked to move him
But LA and CBJ are two totally different teams. One was pretty successful and the other, not so much. As much as Jack plays and as much as the Jackets lose, it's not surprising he's a minus. Jack is by far our best all around dman. If you still care to hold your opinion of Jack when he was in LA and not bother to make up another one, you fit in with 90% of the posters in this thread. Jack has been our best defensive defender as well. Watch one game, you'll change your mind.

Gagnefan924 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2013, 10:04 AM
  #258
oilinblood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,350
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSGJ View Post
First of all what kind of GM is Jarmo Kekäläinen?



http://www.sbnation.com/2013/2/13/39...ger-introduced

Secondly, what kind of player is Jack Johnson according to the advanced stats guys?



http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/2/24...on-is-not-good

It isn't just Derek Zona on Copper n' Blue who is not a fan. I read several advanced stats bloggers and they all agree about Jack Johnson, which makes me think that Jarmo would agree as well.

I think Jarmo will try to trade JJ to a GM who buys into Johnson's reputation and don't look at the underlaying stats. An incompetent GM in other words.

The reason this might not happen is that JJ is the biggest name on a very depleted team and that he was the return on a big trade. It wouldn't be a popular trade, but Jarmo ought to do it for the best of the team.
I have never liked JJ. Personally i get squeemish every time he is available because i have this idea that once Tambo learns how to contact other GMs-and that he has that freedom- that he will ruin our team

Its sad when have so little faith in a GM that i prefer he leave the team with holes and just continues the suck train rather than seeing what he does in making big aquisitions to fill those holes.

oilinblood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2013, 11:20 AM
  #259
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,396
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
Great post, but I've bolded the part most integral to the discussion. I guess this thread has given us a good time reading posts by people who don't watch him play, though, so good on the OP I guess.

I await the next great (fill in blanks) "someone" "might do" "something" thread. It's like Mad Libs!
I can guarantee you that, if Johnson were moved, we'd see the same thing with him as with Kovalchuk. And that is the whole idea of "changing his game" and "playing completely differently than he did".

No one paid enough attention to Atlanta to notice how Kovalchuk played, then acted shocked when he actually turned out to be pretty good in all zones. And no one (outside of us) pays enough attention to Columbus to see that he looks completely different than he did with the Kings.

Mayor Bee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2013, 11:50 AM
  #260
fsanford
Registered User
 
fsanford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,376
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
But LA and CBJ are two totally different teams. One was pretty successful and the other, not so much. As much as Jack plays and as much as the Jackets lose, it's not surprising he's a minus. Jack is by far our best all around dman. If you still care to hold your opinion of Jack when he was in LA and not bother to make up another one, you fit in with 90% of the posters in this thread. Jack has been our best defensive defender as well. Watch one game, you'll change your mind.
Seen him play a couple of times when he played the Kings. He showed that flash of what he can do last game against the Kings, rushing it up the ice late in the 3rd period nice pass. But also watched him cough it up , and just make that bad play that would cause us to groan. Granted its only a 2 game sample so cannot say that is what happens across most games.

I would not say I am like 90% of the fans given I have seen him play a lot more than most the posters in this thread and most Columbus fans. Most posters just feed off of what they hear, some of us have watched a player for a large number of games.

At the end of the day Johnson was part of a very good defensive team in Los Angeles and he was considered by most to be the poorest of the best.

In Columbus not sure how you would rate the defensemen over all, I would speculate he is the best of an average bunch based on Columbus fans pointing out the challenges their team has.

Maybe its all how you look at it.

And at the end of the day Columbus fans are happy with his level of play, that is all that matters.

fsanford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2013, 11:52 AM
  #261
Fro
Yes Cbus has hockey
 
Fro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Drinking With Carts
Country: United States
Posts: 14,435
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsanford View Post
Seen him play a couple of times when he played the Kings. He showed that flash of what he can do last game against the Kings, rushing it up the ice late in the 3rd period nice pass. But also watched him cough it up , and just make that bad play that would cause us to groan. Granted its only a 2 game sample so cannot say that is what happens across most games.

I would not say I am like 90% of the fans given I have seen him play a lot more than most the posters in this thread and most Columbus fans. Most posters just feed off of what they hear, some of us have watched a player for a large number of games.

At the end of the day Johnson was part of a very good defensive team in Los Angeles and he was considered by most to be the poorest of the best.

In Columbus not sure how you would rate the defensemen over all, I would speculate he is the best of an average bunch based on Columbus fans pointing out the challenges their team has.

Maybe its all how you look at it.. And at the end of the day Columbus fans are happy with his level of play, that is all that matters.
personally, even before the 1st round pick is used, i consider it a win/win

Fro is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2013, 12:19 PM
  #262
Beukeboom Fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,530
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsanford View Post
Watched JJ pretty much every game with the Kings. I like many, really like Jack the guy, team USA etc, unfortunately it blinded us to Jack the player.

The guy had a tendency to just make bad mistakes at the worst possible time.
There were streaks, where you would say there is JMFJ, there is a top line defensmen, but they did not last long. The longer streaks were the Kings fishing the puck out of the net, and crowd yelling c'mon Jack.

Columbus is still in a honeymoon period with this guy, let them be married a couple of years and see what they will say then.

Checking this years stats, Jack sits at a -8 through what 15 games.. Now Columbus fan will say "but he does so much more." Its not unlike King fans trying to defend him. Its more about reputation than ability.

The fact of the matter is the guy contributes more to losses than to win's on a night in night out basis. It would not surprise me if Columbus looked to move him
While I agree with you that JJ made poor decisions in LA - I haven't seen that as much in CLM. Making ANY evaluation of his current play based on +/- is absolutely ludicrous considering he's playing 28 minutes/game on the worst team in the league.

Have you watched ANY of JJ's games in CLM? It seems like there are a bunch of people who are absolutely ripping on JJ, and I get the impression that they're basing their opinion on JJ from 2-3 years ago in LA.

Beukeboom Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2013, 12:49 PM
  #263
Frolov 6'3
Unregistered User
 
Frolov 6'3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 8,787
vCash: 500
Why from 2/3 years ago ? He was still here one year ago..

Actually I would take that opinion more seriously than 37 games with Colombus despite the fact he's playing on a different team. I still think he makes too many turnovers for a #1 defenseman, but his positioning is his main problem. When somebody scores, JJ is always in the neighbourhood on the wrong side of the puck. Awful.

Personally I've always said he's a very good 2nd pairing defenseman and decent on the PP. Its more than logical that he's a minus on such a bad team so I wouldnt put too much stock into that, but its ironical though.

Frolov 6'3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2013, 01:37 PM
  #264
Double-Shift Lassé
Moderator
Just post better
 
Double-Shift Lassé's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Superurban Cbus
Country: United States
Posts: 17,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsanford View Post
Columbus is still in a honeymoon period with this guy, let them be married a couple of years and see what they will say then.
OK but according to this thread, he's getting traded... maybe. So there won't be any "couple of years married."

Quote:
Checking this years stats, Jack sits at a -8 through what 15 games.. Now Columbus fan will say "but he does so much more." Its not unlike King fans trying to defend him. Its more about reputation than ability.
This is exactly what I'm talking about, except I mean it in the exact opposite way you do. People bashing his play are basing it on what they saw before he came to CBJ.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
but his positioning is his main problem. When somebody scores, JJ is always in the neighbourhood on the wrong side of the puck.
I have seen this as well. It's very different, though, from what is being said by some folks in this thread. Frustrating, but you take the bad with the good - or in this case, better.


Quote:
Personally I've always said he's a very good 2nd pairing defenseman and decent on the PP.
Yes I'd prefer this too. CBJ doesn't really have a better option at the moment.


JJ is playing better. He's stronger in his own end but not outstanding. We'll take it. He is a young blueliner who can play in all situations who is on a friendly contract. Moving him creates an unnecessary hole on the CBJ blueline which could ultimately be filled from within but it's way too soon to suggest that time is now.

Double-Shift Lassé is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2013, 08:01 PM
  #265
RAZZIE King
König von Schaben
 
RAZZIE King's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Roach Motel
Country: United States
Posts: 15,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
I haven't read the entire thread, so I don't know if the following idea has even been considered:

If Jack Johnson is a black-hole defensively, rather than thinking about trading him, why not convert him into a winger? He probably wouldn't be as much of a defensive liability as a winger and, as a winger, he could be an offensive threat.

Make him a winger, and if that doesn't improve his game in any way, then trade him. Either that, or get someone who can teach him how to be a defensively responsible defenceman.

Since it currently looks highly likely that Columbus will end up in the bottom 5 this season, why not try this experiment? There's really nothing for Columbus to lose at this point; if it diesn't work out, then JJ can get traded in theh summer.
I was saying this for a few years before he got traded...

RAZZIE King is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:01 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.