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12-13' Prospects Thread Version XV: Rielly Wins WHL Eastern Conf. Dman of the Year

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02-21-2013, 01:01 AM
  #126
charliolemieux
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It's amazing that a scout can determine Biggs should go before Jenner. Like that would be criminal based on how they're playing now.
Yup.

And Pavel Datsyuk should have been drafted in the top 5.

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02-21-2013, 06:44 AM
  #127
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Biggs can percolate in the AHL for a few years. Hopefully he is given loads of PP time in order to hone some offensive skills.

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02-21-2013, 06:54 AM
  #128
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The gamble on Biggs was always if his offensive potential could rise up.

He was always an intriguing prospect because of his intangibles, size and physicality but his question mark, and the main reason why he fell, was his offensive potential/consistency.

Right now I don't think he has met the expectations of where the Leafs saw his potential to be, but he still has the qualities you want in a NHL player.

He may never be a superstar or even a star, but players like Biggs in the NHL are still pretty valuable. The only downfall to this is that we did move up to grab him.

At this point, he's only 19 years old. There's still plenty of time for him to develop his scoring touch.

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02-21-2013, 07:19 AM
  #129
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I see Biggs as a project right now, certainly not like some that are pencilling him into the Leafs one day. I would catergorize his development as slightly disappointing to date.

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02-21-2013, 07:39 AM
  #130
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Add me to the list of people who came away unimpressed. He's a decent prospect I guess, but if we had a redo, I'd rather not spend a first rounder on the guy.

EDIT: Oh, and the second, too. Wasn't it like, Rakell and Gibson for Biggs? Ugh.
Well we could have just drafted Joe Morrow instead of Biggs.

If we kept the pick we could have had guys like Jensen, Saad, Gibson, Jenner and Percy.

But who knows. In another two years after playing in the AHL for a while and working with Eakins, he could be closer to the player we were expecting.

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02-21-2013, 07:59 AM
  #131
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I see Biggs as a project right now, certainly not like some that are pencilling him into the Leafs one day. I would catergorize his development as slightly disappointing to date.
Obviously Biggs is behind in his development, he's 19 years old and has played a whopping 134 games of upper level junior hockey in his entire life. In comparison, Milan Lucic had played 183 games of junior hockey by the age of 18. Coming up through the US Development system and playing in college limits the amount of time you see the ice. Give him more time people!

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02-21-2013, 08:04 AM
  #132
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Obviously Biggs is behind in his development, he's 19 years old and has played a whopping 134 games of upper level junior hockey in his entire life. In comparison, Milan Lucic had played 183 games of junior hockey by the age of 18. Coming up through the US Development system and playing in college limits the amount of time you see the ice. Give him more time people!
NOTHING you said there contradicts my assertion he's a project. Nobody is writing Biggs off, but to think he's going to be a Leaf one day is an IFFY proposition. Don't understand why people get so defensive the minute you question a Leafs prospect.

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02-21-2013, 08:32 AM
  #133
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Those top 2 picks in 2011 were the definition of "safe picks". Both players have good potential, but not great potential, but because of what they naturally possess, have a high likelihood of playing on the bottom line/pairing regardless of whether or not they reach full potential.

I'm fine with them, and happy to have them, but the idea of being aggressive (in moving up, and reaching pretty big for Percy), just to pick conservatively, makes ZERO sense to me. There were better players than both on the board when they were picked, so it's kind of hard to wrap my head around.

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02-21-2013, 08:42 AM
  #134
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Those top 2 picks in 2011 were the definition of "safe picks". Both players have good potential, but not great potential, but because of what they naturally possess, have a high likelihood of playing on the bottom line/pairing regardless of whether or not they reach full potential.

I'm fine with them, and happy to have them, but the idea of being aggressive (in moving up, and reaching pretty big for Percy), just to pick conservatively, makes ZERO sense to me. There were better players than both on the board when they were picked, so it's kind of hard to wrap my head around.
Kind of like the Schenn pick. Taking a defensive d-man at 5.

Biggs fell from 5 at mid-season, because (as has been mentioned) his perceived lack of offense. He was high because of his leadership.

Looks like the type that plays his ELC in the AHL. No problem the Leafs have a full line up in the NHL. Sure it doesn't have any kids on it but that time has passed and they are out of tank category.

Unless the prospects blow away the NHL players they'll be staying in the minors.

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02-21-2013, 08:44 AM
  #135
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What??

Stu Percy is a great pick IMO. Reminds me of Carl Gunnarsson but more offense.

He can be a top 4 D and the PPQB of the 2nd PP unit.

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02-21-2013, 08:51 AM
  #136
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Kind of like the Schenn pick. Taking a defensive d-man at 5.

Biggs fell from 5 at mid-season, because (as has been mentioned) his perceived lack of offense. He was high because of his leadership.

Looks like the type that plays his ELC in the AHL. No problem the Leafs have a full line up in the NHL. Sure it doesn't have any kids on it but that time has passed and they are out of tank category.

Unless the prospects blow away the NHL players they'll be staying in the minors.
I never liked the Scenn pick. I wanted Hodgson, Boedker, or Eberle (in a trade down to add picks scenario). I was hoping for Patrice Cormier in the second too, along with Markstrom.

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02-21-2013, 08:55 AM
  #137
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What??

Stu Percy is a great pick IMO. Reminds me of Carl Gunnarsson but more offense.

He can be a top 4 D and the PPQB of the 2nd PP unit.
I've seen lots of him in person, and lots on the tele, and i get that he has the potential to be a top 4 guy, but I've never come away that impressed.

He's steady, like Gunnar, and often quiet like him too. He's a guy that goes unnoticed often, not necessarily the worst trait. I just had a preference for others, and he was a reach.

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02-21-2013, 08:59 AM
  #138
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In that 2011 draft, I wanted to draft Puempel and Jenson. I would rather have Biggs + Percy now.

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02-21-2013, 09:06 AM
  #139
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In that 2011 draft, I wanted to draft Puempel and Jenson. I would rather have Biggs + Percy now.
I was an advocate of Biggs/Puempel with the first pick, and Jurco/Rattie/Jenner with the second. Would still rather have any of the others at the second pick, but I wouldn't complain. Percy is a good prospect in his own right.

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02-21-2013, 09:45 AM
  #140
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I think what's happened right now with Biggs is that he has hit a wall. This is the most hockey he's played in a season, plus he's played significant minutes, and went overseas for WJC.

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02-21-2013, 09:50 AM
  #141
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It's amazing that a scout can determine Biggs should go before Jenner. Like that would be criminal based on how they're playing now.
Things can change quickly in a year. I watched Jenner quite a few times in his draft year, and he looked a decent two way player with size. He's really improved his quickness and puck handling. I wasnt a huge fan of Biggs either, but as we have seen this year with Kadri, we seem to have a very good development program in place with the Marlies.

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02-21-2013, 09:58 AM
  #142
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I see Biggs as a project right now, certainly not like some that are pencilling him into the Leafs one day. I would catergorize his development as slightly disappointing to date.
I didn't really like the pick at the time, reading scouting reports it just seemed to me that players with his qualities can often be found later on in the draft. With that being said, you can kind of see what the thinking was. Lets take Zack Phillips and Matt Puempel as examples. If they arent able to produce offence at the NHL level, they are likely headed for a career in the AHL. At least with Biggs, if he isnt able to score at the NHL level, he could still be used as a big, tough, defensively responsible 3rd line winger.

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02-21-2013, 10:04 AM
  #143
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Those top 2 picks in 2011 were the definition of "safe picks". Both players have good potential, but not great potential, but because of what they naturally possess, have a high likelihood of playing on the bottom line/pairing regardless of whether or not they reach full potential.

I'm fine with them, and happy to have them, but the idea of being aggressive (in moving up, and reaching pretty big for Percy), just to pick conservatively, makes ZERO sense to me. There were better players than both on the board when they were picked, so it's kind of hard to wrap my head around.
I think thats pretty much consensus from everyone. Not so much WHO we picked that draft, but the fact we gave up a 2nd rounder in a draft where the wide spread opinion was that talent was pretty balanced between the 15th and 40th picks. In fact, we may have been able to stand pat and got the same players we traded up to get.

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02-21-2013, 10:04 AM
  #144
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Things can change quickly in a year. I watched Jenner quite a few times in his draft year, and he looked a decent two way player with size. He's really improved his quickness and puck handling. I wasnt a huge fan of Biggs either, but as we have seen this year with Kadri, we seem to have a very good development program in place with the Marlies.
Kadri was about as dominant as you'll ever see from an OHL'er.. Don't compare him to Biggs who looks replaceable.

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02-21-2013, 10:09 AM
  #145
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Kadri was about as dominant as you'll ever see from an OHL'er.. Don't compare him to Biggs who looks replaceable.
Patrick Kane says Hello

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02-21-2013, 10:09 AM
  #146
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I never liked the Scenn pick. I wanted Hodgson, Boedker, or Eberle (in a trade down to add picks scenario). I was hoping for Patrice Cormier in the second too, along with Markstrom.
You wanted Eberle? That seems a bit of a stretch.
I actually remember during that draft rumours had the Leafs looking closely at Boedker and Hodgson if we stood still. Wasnt karlsson drafted later that year too?

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02-21-2013, 10:15 AM
  #147
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You wanted Eberle? That seems a bit of a stretch.
I actually remember during that draft rumours had the Leafs looking closely at Boedker and Hodgson if we stood still. Wasnt karlsson drafted later that year too?
From what I remember, Eberle was actually viewed favourable by many scouts, especially after his play at the U-18s.

THe big concern was whether his scoring touch would translate to the NHL, and it wasnt without good reason. He has made huge strides since then, but he was definitely seen as a guy with upside

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02-21-2013, 10:18 AM
  #148
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Kadri was about as dominant as you'll ever see from an OHL'er.. Don't compare him to Biggs who looks replaceable.
No he wasn't. I'm a huge kadri fan, but he struggled when he first went back to junior after his first training camp and unless you've been off this board for years....his potential was getting questioned on here on a daily basis.

I'm not comparing the style of Biggs and Kadri, I'm comparing the fact there NHL potential was getting questioned.

Look at the players who played for the Marlies and made the jump to the NHL this year. They have all contributed this year and have done every well. Eakins is a valueable asset we have in our organization, IMO.

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02-21-2013, 10:29 AM
  #149
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You wanted Eberle? That seems a bit of a stretch.
I actually remember during that draft rumours had the Leafs looking closely at Boedker and Hodgson if we stood still. Wasnt karlsson drafted later that year too?
I wanted Eberle if we dropped back into the 11-20 range. He was a leader and a dynamic offensive player. He was hard not to like.

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02-21-2013, 10:30 AM
  #150
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