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Tatar and Nyquist, are they really the answer?

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Old
02-18-2013, 06:47 AM
  #26
Henkka
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Originally Posted by mindfly View Post
Tank and draft Jones with 1st overall and Hägg with 31st overall

Kronwall-Jones
Ouellet-Sproul
Bäckman-Smith

HM's: Hägg, Marchenko

There's the solution. Two pairs has one righty and one lefty (if marchenko turns out great replace smith with him), each pair has a more defensive minded Dman and one offensive. (Kronwall is not the no.1 D, they're listed as they would play as Left D and right D)
Solution for which year? 2015?

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02-18-2013, 07:03 AM
  #27
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Solution for which year? 2015?
2014 or 2015 yes

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02-18-2013, 09:52 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post

With Nyquist, we've seen flashes of a high skill level and creativity. Not on a Datsyuk level, but enough to believe he could be a real good top 6 forward that sparks the offense. Much like Datsyuk though, he has to get a lot stronger to maximize his skill. So there's definitely a lot of potential there, but he has to want it and be committed to it like Pav and Z were.

Tatar on the other hand doesn't have the pure skill or creativity as the other 3 IMO, but he still has the skill set to be a real good player. And as we've recently seen, he's further along than Nyquist and more of a sure thing. Nyquist has a higher ceiling though. But Tatar's skating, puck control, and offensive sense is already at an NHL ready. He can be an effective 3rd liner with some offensive flare, or he could develop into a 1st or 2nd line winger. I really like the growth we've seen out of him and I love the passion and intensity in his game. His time in the AHL should effectively be over with now.
Very well put, I totally agree! Nyquist hasn't played that well for the Wings but he's amazing in Grand Rapids (and actually everywhere else he's been). Holland and Babcock just have to be patient with his development while at the same time giving him some exposure to the NHL.
Tatar on the other hand shouldn't play in the AHL anymore. He has 4 points in 7 games and could very well have had two goals yesterday as well. Also, these are not fluke goals and assists, he's just been by far the most dangerous bottom 6 forward the last couple games and, unfortunately, he was also way better than Filppula IMO.

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02-18-2013, 10:05 AM
  #29
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I agree. Tatar has shown that he belongs in the NHL. He puts himself on the scoreboard, creates lots of scoring chances and plays with great energy. Even with the injured players coming back, he should not be sent down again, as he brings a serious boost to the lineup.

I also think that Nyqvist has even more potential, but he never really got a fair chance this season. Against Anaheim, he played on Filpullas line, who was awful that night. Would have liked if they kept the Griffins line togeather and let him play with Tatar and Andersson.
Im a bit concerned about this strength though.

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02-18-2013, 10:25 AM
  #30
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Yeah, putting guys on Filppula's line is not the spark some players would need (this year, that is).
I also don't really understand why Babcock didn't put Nyquist together with Tatar and Andersson, using the chemistry this trio obviously has.

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02-18-2013, 10:29 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Claypool View Post
Tatar and Nyquist are still in their early 20's. I don't think anyone expected Datsyuk to evolve into one of the best players in the game back in 2002. Same with Zetterberg. Things take time.
I think you might be surprised. There was already talk about Datsyuk in camp back in 2002. And Bowman seemed to put a great deal of trust in him. Moreover, rewatching some clips of Datsyuk in his rookie season, you can hear the announcers (from ESPN! REMEMBER WHEN THEY DID HOCKEY?) gushing about him, about how he was going to be something special.

Getting Datsyuk that late was a freaking miracle. The guy had talent that was almost instantly obvious as soon as he came to the NHL.

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Originally Posted by Rael View Post
Yeah, putting guys on Filppula's line is not the spark some players would need (this year, that is).
I also don't really understand why Babcock didn't put Nyquist together with Tatar and Andersson, using the chemistry this trio obviously has.
Chemistry they have because they played together for a long time on the Griffins.

Why they don't give the guy that same kind of consistency to develop chemistry with the Wings is beyond me.

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02-18-2013, 01:58 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by mindfly View Post
2014 or 2015 yes
I guarantee if you take that route it will be nearly impossible to re-sign top players like Datsyuk. Players like that will not want to "tank" and wait 2-3 seasons to get back on track.

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02-18-2013, 02:02 PM
  #33
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Tatar looks hungry. He is young and he looks like he could be a legit top six player in the future or on the third line of a very deep team that can legitimately role three scoring lines.

I still dont know what to make of Nyquist. His AHL stats should have been enough to warrant bringing him up full time this year. Sadly, The Wings have so many forwards that it's impossible to keep him up. Gotta make sure Sammy and Cleary get all the ice time..........

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02-18-2013, 02:07 PM
  #34
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Only Datysuk and Zetterberg look better than Tatar right now. Here's hoping Nyquist can get to that level of play soon and remain on the roster. I'm tired of seeing him recalled then reassigned, I can't imagine how he feels.

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02-18-2013, 02:08 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by JDrake28 View Post
Only Datysuk and Zetterberg look better than Tatar right now. Here's hoping Nyquist can get to that level of play soon and remain on the roster. I'm tired of seeing him recalled than reassigned, I can't imagine how he feels.
I will tweet him and see if he responds.

I tweeted the Wings last night asking why Cleary was still on the PP. Maybe my magic will work again.

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02-18-2013, 02:16 PM
  #36
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Speaking of doing amazing things with the puck Thomas Jurco has Datsyukian skill set POTENTAIL with the puck. It will be interesting to see him develop. Before anybody freaks out I know that he is maybe 2 years from NHL ready but that's something to consider.

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02-18-2013, 02:20 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
I will tweet him and see if he responds.

I tweeted the Wings last night asking why Cleary was still on the PP. Maybe my magic will work again.
It's because Holland loves to collect fossils and Babcock's hand is forced to play them.

Hopefully your magic does work, don't have a good feeling vs Nashville tomorrow

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02-18-2013, 02:31 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by JDrake28 View Post
It's because Holland loves to collect fossils
Hahahahahahahahahaha

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02-18-2013, 02:35 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by JDrake28 View Post
It's because Holland loves to collect fossils and Babcock's hand is forced to play them.

Hopefully your magic does work, don't have a good feeling vs Nashville tomorrow
Really last I checked he has loved scratching the younger guys he has got and limiting ice time. I don't want a different GM or coach, but the people in these camps can't have it both ways, Holland and Babcock both have their quirks, especially with the older players and development of younger guys.

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02-18-2013, 02:39 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Really last I checked he has loved scratching the younger guys he has got and limiting ice time. I don't want a different GM or coach, but the people in these camps can't have it both ways, Holland and Babcock both have their quirks, especially with the older players and development of younger guys.
Babcock might secretly love Holland. They both love veterans way too much.

Assuming every coach in the NHL was available if you fired Babcock, who would you pick to replace him?

I honestly cant think of anyone.

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02-18-2013, 02:41 PM
  #41
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If Babcock always has something against young guys, why is Lashoff playing on the top pairing?

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02-18-2013, 02:44 PM
  #42
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Clearly Cleary is the answer.

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02-18-2013, 02:45 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
I think you might be surprised. There was already talk about Datsyuk in camp back in 2002. And Bowman seemed to put a great deal of trust in him. Moreover, rewatching some clips of Datsyuk in his rookie season, you can hear the announcers (from ESPN! REMEMBER WHEN THEY DID HOCKEY?) gushing about him, about how he was going to be something special.

Getting Datsyuk that late was a freaking miracle. The guy had talent that was almost instantly obvious as soon as he came to the NHL.
He was a rookie at what? Age 24? Datsyuk wasn't a dominant NHL player until about 27 or 28.

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02-18-2013, 03:19 PM
  #44
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Both Gus and Tatar need and deserve STINTS with the wings. Not 1 game her and there. 5-10 games minimum. Gus is a ppg+ player (NCAA and AHL) he has so much to contribute to this team. He is out for blood every time he touches the puck. There are too many players that haven't done damn thing but take up space (Sammy, Cleary). I don't care how much we are paying them, if they aren't contributing don't put them on the ice. Put someone who produces on the ice. And Tatar plays with an intensity that is awesome to see. He does something the team needs to do more often Put the puck on net.

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02-18-2013, 03:21 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Really last I checked he has loved scratching the younger guys he has got and limiting ice time. I don't want a different GM or coach, but the people in these camps can't have it both ways, Holland and Babcock both have their quirks, especially with the older players and development of younger guys.
That was my joke / point.

Holland is a capable GM, he needs to adjust his gameplan. The major one being his habit of signing veterans in hopes they perform like they did in their prime. He was able to do that when it's talented guys like Shanny and Hull. But it doesn't work the same way with guys like Cleary and Sammy. People have joked about it but if he signed Cleary to a multi-year contract in the off-season it wouldn't be surprising.

Babcock is the best coach in the game, that's all that needs to be said.

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02-18-2013, 03:30 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Babcock might secretly love Holland. They both love veterans way too much.

Assuming every coach in the NHL was available if you fired Babcock, who would you pick to replace him?

I honestly cant think of anyone.
I don't think Babcock loves veterans so much as he's really picky and stubborn. He only trusts certain players. But if you win him over, he'll love you forever. Even if you play poorly.

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02-18-2013, 03:53 PM
  #47
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Babcock loves to win, that's why he can't help himself from playing Datsyuk and Z 20+ minutes a game. Babcock needs talent to win, he could be managing things better, but he still needs talent.

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02-18-2013, 04:04 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Babcock might secretly love Holland. They both love veterans way too much.

Assuming every coach in the NHL was available if you fired Babcock, who would you pick to replace him?

I honestly cant think of anyone.
That is why I don't want him fired. I do the same thing with GMs, my point is I don't understand how you can be in ones guys camp to the loyalty of which you want the other guy gone. Have seen it a lot around here and it just confuses me, nobody is going to do their jobs better. Or at the very least they should both be given a chance as in a couple years to figure this out.

They could always pay somebody huge money to come to Detroit in either spot. Not real interested in who that would be and they are much better about getting permission to speak. My guess is Nill would be the answer if Holland decided to leave (not fired) he would probably just go upstairs. But they could throw a boatload of cash at a David Poile type, doubt that would happen though. On Babs, I just worry his message isn't getting through anymore. It is hard for a coach to stay in one place for a real long time, with similar players.

I don't want either guy fired, but if I had to make the choice I have a lot more faith in a coaching change giving the team a kick in the *** than I do firing a HHOF builder. We stole Devellano away from NYI they have never been the same, we lost perhaps the greatest coach in the history of sports and six years later we won again.

They are both HHOF guys and in my opinion they are both the best at their particular profession maybe not in landslides. But you can argue Holland is the best GM and Babcock the best coach.

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02-18-2013, 04:07 PM
  #49
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That was my joke / point.

Holland is a capable GM, he needs to adjust his gameplan. The major one being his habit of signing veterans in hopes they perform like they did in their prime. He was able to do that when it's talented guys like Shanny and Hull. But it doesn't work the same way with guys like Cleary and Sammy. People have joked about it but if he signed Cleary to a multi-year contract in the off-season it wouldn't be surprising.

Babcock is the best coach in the game, that's all that needs to be said.
What has Babcock done in the last couple years to make you think he's the best coach in the game?

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02-18-2013, 04:09 PM
  #50
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What has Babcock done in the last couple years to make you think he's the best coach in the game?
Who do you think is best?

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