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Tatar and Nyquist, are they really the answer?

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Old
02-18-2013, 09:04 PM
  #76
VladTheImpaler
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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
I don't know why, but I think Sproul and/or Ouellet have a chance to become stars in this league. That being said, its pretty unlikely.
Those two along with Backman definitely seem like they have #2-4 potential. It still is early in each of their developments, but those three specifically are maturing very nicely.

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02-18-2013, 09:08 PM
  #77
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I think Sproul has #1 capabilities written all over him. I'm not sure what the likelihood of him reaching that potential is but I don't think there are many better offensive defenseman prospects in hockey right now.

I agree with the Nose, I have high hopes that one or both of Sproul/Ouelette become stars in this league.

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02-18-2013, 09:13 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
I don't know why, but I think Sproul and/or Ouellet have a chance to become stars in this league. That being said, its pretty unlikely.
At this point it's too early to write anyone off. Just priority-wise we need some defensemen that can eat up minutes and be postive players so desperately.

I think Nyquist will become pretty close to what Filppula is, I think he'll be a good complimentary scoring line player. My hope is that Tatar can become a player similar to Brad Marchand, a small energetic scorer. Maybe a Marchand-lite without the grit. I don't think he's really that much like Hudler, the guy is looking to score all the time.

The wild card is Jarnkrok. Andersson likens him to a young Zetterberg, so he definitely has a high ceiling. He is also the most unknown commodity of the bunch, and may be the highest risk/reward of the 3.

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02-18-2013, 09:29 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
At this point it's too early to write anyone off. Just priority-wise we need some defensemen that can eat up minutes and be postive players so desperately.

I think Nyquist will become pretty close to what Filppula is, I think he'll be a good complimentary scoring line player. My hope is that Tatar can become a player similar to Brad Marchand, a small energetic scorer. Maybe a Marchand-lite without the grit. I don't think he's really that much like Hudler, the guy is looking to score all the time.

The wild card is Jarnkrok. Andersson likens him to a young Zetterberg, so he definitely has a high ceiling. He is also the most unknown commodity of the bunch, and may be the highest risk/reward of the 3.
No doubt, this season has made it painfully obvious that we need a solid top pairing D-man who can eat up minutes. The potential issue there, though, is that if Smith ends up not being that guy, the Sproul/Ouellet crowd is still a ways off from making a big impact on the Wings given how slowly they seem to develop defensemen. So Kenny may have to make a deal to acquire that top pairing guy unless he chooses to go defense by subpar committee for a while.

I think that Flip had a career year last year but isn't going to remain at that level of production, so if either Gus or Tats can replace him in the lineup for a lower cap hit, I'd think about letting him walk after the season (or a sign and trade, not sure how frequent that occurs in the NHL vs the NBA where they are commonplace), slot the young guy in Flip's role in the top 6, and use the cap space towards a bigger scoring forward or top pairing D-man.

I think the Wings need a legit scoring line center sooner rather than later, so I hope Jarnkrok picks up the NA game quickly, and perhaps more importantly, Babs and Kenny get on the same page with trusting a young guy to perform (again, assuming his game is good enough). This lineup is dead in the water right now if either D or Z misses significant time to injuries, as Flip apparently forgot how to play center and the rest of our C's all have bottom 6 talent.

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02-18-2013, 09:32 PM
  #80
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I think Jurco could really be a stud. Hes a real young guy in the A right now, but he could be real good someday.

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02-18-2013, 09:38 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Townsend Beasley View Post
I think Jurco could really be a stud. Hes a real young guy in the A right now, but he could be real good someday.
He has all the tools to be a really good top 6 guy. He's drawn plenty of comparisons to Hossa.
Next year in GR will be very important for him.

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02-18-2013, 09:50 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Dolph Lundgren View Post
He has all the tools to be a really good top 6 guy. He's drawn plenty of comparisons to Hossa.
Next year in GR will be very important for him.
Hossa is a terrible comparison. Hossa skates like a beast and never gives up on plays.

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02-18-2013, 09:59 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Hossa is a terrible comparison. Hossa skates like a beast and never gives up on plays.
From Red Wings Central
Tomas Jurco:
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Described by assistant GM Jim Nill as a “Marian Hossa-type player” in an MLive.com article in May 2012
Where do you get the impression that Jurco's skating is questionable or that he gives up on plays?

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02-18-2013, 10:32 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by JDrake28 View Post
How many years, after they've been bounced out of the playoffs, has he said this team needs a legitimate top 6 winger? It still holds true, Brunner doesn't really count.
Did he say it in 2011, when he was playing Hudler on the third and fourth line in the playoffs and even sitting him?

If he did, it sounds like a problem of his own making in that instance.

And last year, the Wings' top six *should* have scored, except that Datsyuk was injured, Bertuzzi was Bertuzzi, Franzen thought it was still the regular season, and Flip simply disappeared. The team had plenty of talent, it's just that the only scoring forwards who actually were threats were Z, Hudler, and Dats. Everyone here is saying Brunner is an upgrade on Hudler. If that's the case, then adding a second-line forward in Samuelsson (pending health and continued play level - i.e. not turning into Cleary v.2) should be that extra "top-six forward". The real problems are getting the defense sorted out (like playing Kindl, for starters) and actually being healthy.

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02-18-2013, 10:42 PM
  #85
VladTheImpaler
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Did he say it in 2011, when he was playing Hudler on the third and fourth line in the playoffs and even sitting him?

If he did, it sounds like a problem of his own making in that instance.

And last year, the Wings' top six *should* have scored, except that Datsyuk was injured, Bertuzzi was Bertuzzi, Franzen thought it was still the regular season, and Flip simply disappeared. The team had plenty of talent, it's just that the only scoring forwards who actually were threats were Z, Hudler, and Dats. Everyone here is saying Brunner is an upgrade on Hudler. If that's the case, then adding a second-line forward in Samuelsson (pending health and continued play level - i.e. not turning into Cleary v.2) should be that extra "top-six forward". The real problems are getting the defense sorted out (like playing Kindl, for starters) and actually being healthy.
This goes back to what I said earlier. The difference between our top-six vs some other top-six groups like Chicago, Pittsburgh or San Jose is that their group actually PLAYS like a top-six group. Either of those teams' top two lines is capable of carrying their team through a game.

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02-18-2013, 11:10 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolph Lundgren View Post
From Red Wings Central
Tomas Jurco:

Where do you get the impression that Jurco's skating is questionable or that he gives up on plays?
I don't care what Jim Nill tells the Detroit News. He's saying Hossa because that's a name people recognize. And IMO, I'm getting kind of tired of the these stupid comparisons. "Pulkinnen is like Brett Hull."

Jurco's skating is his biggest issue. His second issue is work ethic. There have been questions about his work ethic.
If he can improve his skating and learn to compete consistently, he's going to be a good player.

But Hossa? There's no comparison to Hossa, one of the best two-way wingers to play over the last 10 years.

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02-18-2013, 11:30 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Tartar is dangerous. He is hard to compare players too because few play his game.

He is like a Grittier less accurate Brunner. The guy just loves to get in the slot and sling the puck at the net. His cycle is actually pretty decent as well. He is without a doubt the best bottom 6er on this team right now. I cant wait to see a Helm Tartar Abdelkader line. (Tartar shows the most chemistry with Abdelkader so far).

I think he notched a spot on this team for the rest of the year. He just plays the way Babcock wants. (similar to Brunner). Of course that means Nyquist might be waiting till next year.
Even Tatar Helm Tootoo would be awesome. Tootoo could round out the sandpaper for that line.

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02-19-2013, 12:19 AM
  #88
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I am also not as high on these guys as everyone else around here, I would trade them for a solid 2nd line winger with 25-30 goals annually in a flash. a Tomas Fleischmann type for Pav or Z's line. I would do it in a flash!

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02-19-2013, 01:31 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolph Lundgren View Post
From Red Wings Central
Tomas Jurco:

Where do you get the impression that Jurco's skating is questionable or that he gives up on plays?
Captain Bob and I went back and forth on this in the summer. Nill did say it, but we now have quite a bit of pro evidence. Jurco has a lot of gifts but not near the on ice work ethic of Hossa to date. Most alarming as someone who watches a lot of Griffins games is that he needs to improve his skating a fair amount something I never anticipated watching him in junior. His explosiveness isn't great and he rarely actually hits top speed something I attribute to not reacting and thinking through everything. Was the least impressive player on the Griffins when I got to see them in person. I know he is a rookie, but Sheahan jumped out a lot as did Austin Watson both rookies at that level.

Jurco has a lot to work on this off-season. I still think he has a lot to offer, but he is a long ways off from some of his more lofty comparisons and has to do considerable work to get in that neighborhood.

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02-19-2013, 03:33 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Maize and Blue View Post
I am also not as high on these guys as everyone else around here, I would trade them for a solid 2nd line winger with 25-30 goals annually in a flash. a Tomas Fleischmann type for Pav or Z's line. I would do it in a flash!
Bad trade. Half the benefit of grooming your own guys is getting them cheap. Barring Nyquist and Tatar reaching stardom right away, we will have them at bargain deals as long as they're RFA's. Not to mention I like the odds of at least one of them being at Fleischmann's level in a few years.

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02-19-2013, 02:41 PM
  #91
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Babcock might secretly love Holland. They both love veterans way too much.

Assuming every coach in the NHL was available if you fired Babcock, who would you pick to replace him?

I honestly cant think of anyone.
Trotz.

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02-19-2013, 03:11 PM
  #92
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Trotz.
Last time I checked, he is still employed by the Predators head coaching job.

Our next head coach will be Jeff Blashill.

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02-19-2013, 03:21 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Capsized View Post
Trotz.
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Last time I checked, he is still employed by the Predators head coaching job.

Our next head coach will be Jeff Blashill.
The question was:

Quote:
Assuming every coach in the NHL was available if you fired Babcock, who would you pick to replace him?

I honestly cant think of anyone.

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02-19-2013, 03:39 PM
  #94
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Our next head coach will be Jeff Blashill.
I'd bet more money on Renney.

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02-19-2013, 03:44 PM
  #95
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If I could have any coach for our current team it would be Hitchcock, but only for a season or 2.

I think he would instill a defensive system for our forwards that would mask a lot of the deficiencies of our defence. His lifespan isn't very long in places he coaches but he would be good for long enough for some of our stud defensive prospects to develop.

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02-19-2013, 03:57 PM
  #96
Jurky
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Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
If I could have any coach for our current team it would be Hitchcock, but only for a season or 2.

I think he would instill a defensive system for our forwards that would mask a lot of the deficiencies of our defence. His lifespan isn't very long in places he coaches but he would be good for long enough for some of our stud defensive prospects to develop.
Basically this, however if I could have any coach long term it'd be Trotz

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02-19-2013, 04:06 PM
  #97
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Basically this, however if I could have any coach long term it'd be Trotz
I would not, the guy has never gotten passed the 2nd round in the plyoffs, while he has done a lot with very little offensive talent I feel he would limit our offensive potential. If I couldn't have Babcock I would want either Bylsma or Tippett

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02-19-2013, 04:08 PM
  #98
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Dave tippet is my choice. The guy can work with nothing and make a playoff team and he can work with star players.

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02-19-2013, 04:35 PM
  #99
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I would not, the guy has never gotten passed the 2nd round in the plyoffs, while he has done a lot with very little offensive talent I feel he would limit our offensive potential. If I couldn't have Babcock I would want either Bylsma or Tippett
I don't EVER see Bylsam leaving leaving Pittsburgh for the wings.

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02-19-2013, 04:56 PM
  #100
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Dave tippet is my choice. The guy can work with nothing and make a playoff team and he can work with star players.
Great coach, I want no part of watching his system for 82+ games a year though. That might sound silly, but watching Tippett teams play is like watching paint dry.

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