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Tatar and Nyquist, are they really the answer?

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Old
03-02-2013, 08:06 PM
  #126
Heaton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratego View Post
If the Wings don't make the playoffs, Babcock will be fired and Renney will take over. Renney was hired specifically because he is young player friendly.

The current players hate how hard Babcock is on them, while Babcock also hates young guys. Renney is the polar opposite. He'll be the friendly player's coach and coddle all the young guys we have coming up. Datsyuk will leave after having to prop up Cleary and Abs for so long, and the gas left in Zetterberg's tank will be wasted in the Renney era as he tries to get the kids up to speed. Oh, and if Brunner pots 20 in this shortened season, there's no way we'll spend/match the money needed to retain him.

I'm not looking forward to being a Wings fan the next few years.
Haha, this post is the definition of absolute worst case scenario.

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03-02-2013, 08:19 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by GeoSacks View Post
I see a lot of talk of trading Filppula at the deadline...
You all understand how deadline trades work, right? Non-playoff teams trade their players on short contracts to playoff-teams for prospects and picks. It's not impossible but trading Filppula for a valuable player at the deadline would be very difficult as he will have no value to most teams who are selling.
I think that Holland moves Flip in a trade only if the Wings are out of the playoff picture, which isn't likely. I don't think they'll get in, but they'll be in the neighborhood. In any event, I think he should look to move him whether or not the playoffs are realistic. But if Kenny was to move Flip, this would be a great season to do so as it will definitely be a seller's market with so many teams in the playoff hunt- he'd get a decent return for a deadline trade to an EC contender (Lord knows we wouldn't want Flip to come back and haunt us in the WC ).

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03-02-2013, 08:28 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratego View Post
If the Wings don't make the playoffs, Babcock will be fired and Renney will take over. Renney was hired specifically because he is young player friendly.

The current players hate how hard Babcock is on them, while Babcock also hates young guys. Renney is the polar opposite. He'll be the friendly player's coach and coddle all the young guys we have coming up. Datsyuk will leave after having to prop up Cleary and Abs for so long, and the gas left in Zetterberg's tank will be wasted in the Renney era as he tries to get the kids up to speed. Oh, and if Brunner pots 20 in this shortened season, there's no way we'll spend/match the money needed to retain him.

I'm not looking forward to being a Wings fan the next few years.
Any... support for this? Babcock likes a few young guys. He loves Helm and Lashoff. Seems to like Smith.

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03-02-2013, 08:48 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
Any... support for this? Babcock likes a few young guys. He loves Helm and Lashoff. Seems to like Smith.
I should have phrased it "he likes big strong young skaters, but doesn't trust them worth a damn in any situation except the most protected of matchups."

The only support is the same off the record conversations with personalities that you can expect when it comes to something other than to tow the company line and give traditional hockey answers.

I can tell you that Renney wasn't on Babcock's initial radar until it was 'heavily suggested' he get a player friendly guy behind the bench. It sucks to have to hire your replacement.

Its a planned for, and scary, reality we are headed to.

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03-02-2013, 08:50 PM
  #130
Heaton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratego View Post
I should have phrased it "he likes big strong young skaters, but doesn't trust them worth a damn in any situation except the most protected of matchups."

The only support is the same off the record conversations with personalities that you can expect when it comes to something other than to tow the company line and give traditional hockey answers.

I can tell you that Renney wasn't on Babcock's initial radar until it was 'heavily suggested' he get a player friendly guy behind the bench. It sucks to have to hire your replacement.

Its a planned for, and scary, reality we are headed to.
He's always had a 'player friendly' guy behind the bench. MacLean, McCrimmon, etc...

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03-02-2013, 09:50 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratego View Post
I should have phrased it "he likes big strong young skaters, but doesn't trust them worth a damn in any situation except the most protected of matchups."

The only support is the same off the record conversations with personalities that you can expect when it comes to something other than to tow the company line and give traditional hockey answers.

I can tell you that Renney wasn't on Babcock's initial radar until it was 'heavily suggested' he get a player friendly guy behind the bench. It sucks to have to hire your replacement.

Its a planned for, and scary, reality we are headed to.
Where did you here that?

I ultimately think Babcock is done here.
He had a big opportunity to regain his voice in the room with a new captain and by bringing up a bunch of kids...
But his decision making has been off-the-wall stupid.

It didn't help Babcock that Holland brought back retreads (Quincey/Sammy) and did virtually nothing to replace Stuart and Lidstrom

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03-02-2013, 09:57 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Haha, this post is the definition of absolute worst case scenario.
Meh. I think the sooner we change, the better.
Firing Babcock might be a best case scenario.

I don't think we win a cup by replacing Babcock with Renney...but I think it will rejuvenate some players and make them happier.

I have a friend who is "in the know" and he says Franzen and Filppula absolutely hate Babcock.

Now, to a certain extent, I would expect that...because these are guys who play soft, uninspired hockey too often.
But what Babcock is doing to make them hate him isn't making them play better.

Babcock isn't Scotty Bowman.

He's Mike Keenan. That's still pretty good. But he's a limited shelf-life coach.

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03-02-2013, 09:59 PM
  #133
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Franzen hating Babcock shouldnt surprise anyone. A lazy POS like Franzen must hate a hard*** like Babcock. Franzen is also the only member of the core who gets publicly disciplined. (Demoted to third/fourth line.)

Flip is more of a mystery. Probably feels he doesnt get enough credit or isn't being used properly by Babcock.

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03-02-2013, 10:04 PM
  #134
Heaton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Meh. I think the sooner we change, the better.
Firing Babcock might be a best case scenario.

I don't think we win a cup by replacing Babcock with Renney...but I think it will rejuvenate some players and make them happier.

I have a friend who is "in the know" and he says Franzen and Filppula absolutely hate Babcock.

Now, to a certain extent, I would expect that...because these are guys who play soft, uninspired hockey too often.
But what Babcock is doing to make them hate him isn't making them play better.

Babcock isn't Scotty Bowman.

He's Mike Keenan. That's still pretty good. But he's a limited shelf-life coach.
In a sense i think you're right. Babcock gets a team to the championship level, but he needs certain pieces in place. Holland is doing some weird version of a rebuild that his coaching style doesn't necessarily fit with. The problem is, even getting a change of voice doesn't do any good if the players being brought in are old veterans with nothing left in the tank. So basically, I don't think letting Babcock go now is a good scenario at all and it could actually end up hurting the process.

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03-02-2013, 10:06 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Flip is more of a mystery. Probably feels he doesnt get enough credit or isn't being used properly by Babcock.
That's why I don't believe Filppula hates Babcock. From the start of Filppula's NHL career Babcock has put him in positions to succeed. In the top 6, centering the 2nd line, playing with Zetterberg or Datsyuk. It's not Babcock's fault Filppula has been hurt this year and still doesn't understand he needs to shoot to score. And if I had a nickle for every time a fan on a message board claimed to have inside info and it actually was on the money I'd have about 5 bucks.

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03-02-2013, 10:22 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
That's why I don't believe Filppula hates Babcock. From the start of Filppula's NHL career Babcock has put him in positions to succeed. In the top 6, centering the 2nd line, playing with Zetterberg or Datsyuk. It's not Babcock's fault Filppula has been hurt this year and still doesn't understand he needs to shoot to score. And if I had a nickle for every time a fan on a message board claimed to have inside info and it actually was on the money I'd have about 5 bucks.
I agree it's makes no sense for Flip to hate Babcock. Just trying to think of any reason as to why Flip would hate Babs. I personally never got the vibe that Flip is a boat rocker or someone who causes problems for his coach.

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03-02-2013, 11:50 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
Any... support for this? Babcock likes a few young guys. He loves Helm and Lashoff. Seems to like Smith.
I think for Babcock to like you, you need to be one of a few things.

1. Physical and/or gritty
2. Defensively minded
3. Big and strong
4. A good skater

So Helm is physical, defensively minded, and a good skater. Tatar is somewhat gritty (so he gets half credit) and a good skater. That's not good enough. Nyquist is only a good skater. Definitely not good enough.

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03-03-2013, 12:49 AM
  #138
Heaton
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Brunner? Coaches like good players, period.

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03-03-2013, 12:52 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Meh. I think the sooner we change, the better.
Firing Babcock might be a best case scenario.

I don't think we win a cup by replacing Babcock with Renney...but I think it will rejuvenate some players and make them happier.

I have a friend who is "in the know" and he says Franzen and Filppula absolutely hate Babcock.

Now, to a certain extent, I would expect that...because these are guys who play soft, uninspired hockey too often.
But what Babcock is doing to make them hate him isn't making them play better.

Babcock isn't Scotty Bowman.

He's Mike Keenan. That's still pretty good. But he's a limited shelf-life coach.
I know a person who was "in the know" with Magglio Ordonez and Miguel Cabrera, so in the know that I got to sit in Magglio's personal suite at Comerica and meet him. According to this person Magglio and Miggy absolutely hated Jim Leyland and were doing everything in their power to get him fired.

This was in Magglio's last or second to last year with the Tigers. Yet Jim is still there and Cabrera just hit for the triple crown and talked about how much he loved Jim Leyland in every interview he gave and showed great affection for him after many of games.

Point is, "in the know" information is usually pretty useless. If Franzen hates Babcock so much, then how about he void his contract or prove the guy wrong. Franzen has been given every opportunity to succeed here and after he got his money he completely stopped competing. Babcock, at his core, is all about skating hard and competing hard and the guys who play well under Babcock do those things, I.e. Franzen when he was good.

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03-03-2013, 01:30 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Franzen hating Babcock shouldnt surprise anyone. A lazy POS like Franzen must hate a hard*** like Babcock. Franzen is also the only member of the core who gets publicly disciplined. (Demoted to third/fourth line.)

Flip is more of a mystery. Probably feels he doesnt get enough credit or isn't being used properly by Babcock.
Since Babcock has shown he has no problem scratching guys like White and Kindl, why hasn't Franzen ever been scratched or more often moved down? The guy is pretty consistently lazy out there. I rag on Abby and Cleary because they're in the wrong roles, but I've never called them lazy. Franzen is pretty much the only guy that noticeably floats out there. And has been for a couple years now.

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03-03-2013, 02:25 AM
  #141
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Oddly enough, anyone who frequents downtown Royal Oak's drinking establishments over the past years has probably heard Dan Cleary *****ing about how much he hates Babcock too, which makes me seriously consider Babcock is playing Cleary so much for public embarrassment

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03-03-2013, 05:08 AM
  #142
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The rumors about Wings players hating Babcock are pretty funny. Buncha Strickland mouthpieces. Guys get frustrated with their coach from time to time, especially one like Babcock, and then people talk about so-and-so 'absolutely hating' their coach. It's sheer exaggeration. Good for a message board I guess.

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03-03-2013, 08:31 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
Since Babcock has shown he has no problem scratching guys like White and Kindl, why hasn't Franzen ever been scratched or more often moved down?
Last season he was demoted to 3rd line. And played his best hockey after that.

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