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Gilbert Perreault vs Darryl Sittler

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04-24-2013, 04:13 PM
  #1
Stephen
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Gilbert Perreault vs Darryl Sittler

Out of these two Hall of Fame centermen drafted in 1970, who was better?

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04-24-2013, 05:13 PM
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Nice one.

Perreault was the number one pick in the draft, Sittler went number 8. A look at final career stats:

Games Goals Assists Points PIMS

Sittler 1096 484 637 1121 948

Perreault 1191 512 814 1326 500

Neither player ever won a cup. Sittler broke 100 points twice, so did Perreault.

The case for Sittler: 2nd team all star in 1978, four all star appearances, top ten in points five times. Scored ten points in a single game.

The case for Perreault: Calder trophy (top rookie), lady bing trophy once, 2nd team all star twice, six all star appearances. Top ten in points five times.

Not as close as I thought at first, Perreault by three lengths.

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04-24-2013, 05:20 PM
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I think Perreault is a bit overrated, but he has to be the winner of this one.

Top 10 finishes Perreault
Goals: 6, 7, 7, 9
Assists: 3, 4, 5, 8, 9
Points: 3, 4, 5, 8, 9

Top 10 finishes Sittler
Goals: 6, 8, 9
Assists: 2, 8
Points: 3, 8, 8, 9, 9

Small but distinct advantage for Perreault on the raw stats, the consider that Perreault likely was hurt statistically by playing on Buffalo's smaller rink.

Sittler was probably a bit better defensively, but not enough to make up the gap in offense.

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04-24-2013, 05:20 PM
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Thats an interesting and Id say a fairly even handed & well thought out comparison there Stephen. Well done.... by way of qualifying my perspective and decision here a bit, as a life-long Leafs fan youve really created a conundrum, as Im struggling to be objective, but I have to tell you, I'm going with Perrault, and heres why;

Skating; Perrault
Speed; Perrault
Power & Strength; Perrault
Body Checking; Even
Back Checking; Sittler
Hockey IQ; Sittler (he wasnt quite as innately talented, but he was I believe smarter)
Stickhandling; Even
Snap & Flick Shot; Sittler
Deke; Sittler
Wrist Shot; Perrault
Slapshot; Perrault
Checking; Perrault
Leadership; Even, maybe a slight edge to Sittler
Consistency; Perrault
Statistics; More or Less Even (at the NHL level excl Sittlers Flyer years)

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04-24-2013, 05:21 PM
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Lot of respect for Sittler but Perrault by 3 lenghths.When Scotty Bowman has Perrault has high on his top 100 list nothing needs to be explained.Gilbert was better than Dionne stats don't show but he was.Sittler is underated by many but with so many great centers its hard to argue.Sittler was an essential part of Team Canada 1976 when he scored winning goal against czecholvakia.

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04-24-2013, 05:31 PM
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Perreault, but I do think Sittler is becoming one of hockey's lost stars over time. Outside of TO, he has become very underrated.

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04-24-2013, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Perreault, but I do think Sittler is becoming one of hockey's lost stars over time. Outside of TO, he has become very underrated.
There was a "grittyness" to Sittler early in his career. However, after Ballard, who shouldve been taken out by a CraZEd FAn after unceremoniously doin what he did to Dave Keon & Darryl inherited the mantle of "leadership" (something I personally never did agree with, not leadership material) and proceeded to basically fail to seal the deals post season, pretty much reaffirmed what Id suspected & thought all along.... Dude was self absorbed. Wilfully vain.... Terrible thing to say? Of course. But I really didnt care then nor do I now if Im "politically correct". Eff that. Spades a Spade Baby.

Lets be honest instead shall we? This is a guy who when Brewer comes back out of retirement in an experiment under Imlach thinks Carl's a Punch Spy, whispering campaign, the idiots having no idea about the actual history between Imlach & Brewer, directs the rest of the team to refrain from so much as passing Brewer the puck in a frikin game situation? WTF is that?! Then he he takes a pair of scissors to his Leafs jersey & cuts off the 'C' because he doesnt like the fact that his linemate & best friend Lanny McDonald gets traded? Once again, what the Sam Hell is that? And so out of misplaced anger goes out and has a 10pt night against Boston? Ok. Your an idiot. Plain & simple. Your capable of that only under extreme duress pretty boy? How more selfish, "Im bigger than the team" can ya get? Absolutely gutless. Our. Cherished. Leader. Well, excuse me all ta Smithereens. Aint workin for me. Didnt work then, not workin today 30yrs later when I look back on it & just wonder what mightve been....

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04-24-2013, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Perreault, but I do think Sittler is becoming one of hockey's lost stars over time. Outside of TO, he has become very underrated.
I don't know. This looks like respect to me. In the last All Time Draft he went before

Jimmy Thomson, D
Henrik Zetterberg, C/LW
Billy Smith, G
Sweeney Schriner, LW
Harvey Pulford, D
John LeClair, LW
Paul Kariya, LW
Pat Lafontaine, C
Babe Dye, RW
Hap Day, D
Luc Robitaille, LW
Allan Stanley, D
Mats Sundin, C

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04-24-2013, 06:23 PM
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There was a "grittyness" to Sittler early in his career. However, after Ballard, who shouldve been taken out by a CraZEd FAn after unceremoniously doin what he did to Dave Keon & Darryl inherited the mantle of "leadership" (something I personally never did agree with, not leadership material) and proceeded to basically fail to seal the deals post season, pretty much reaffirmed what Id suspected & thought all along.... Dude was self absorbed. Wilfully vain.... Terrible thing to say? Of course. But I really didnt care then nor do I now if Im "politically correct". Eff that. Spades a Spade Baby.

Lets be honest instead shall we? This is a guy who when Brewer comes back out of retirement in an experiment under Imlach thinks Carl's a Punch Spy, whispering campaign, the idiots having no idea about the actual history between Imlach & Brewer, directs the rest of the team to refrain from so much as passing Brewer the puck in a frikin game situation? WTF is that?! Then he he takes a pair of scissors to his Leafs jersey & cuts off the 'C' because he doesnt like the fact that his linemate & best friend Lanny McDonald gets traded? Once again, what the Sam Hell is that? And so out of misplaced anger goes out and has a 10pt night against Boston? Ok. Your an idiot. Plain & simple. Your capable of that only under extreme duress pretty boy? How more selfish, "Im bigger than the team" can ya get? Absolutely gutless. Our. Cherished. Leader. Well, excuse me all ta Smithereens. Aint workin for me. Didnt work then, not workin today 30yrs later when I look back on it & just wonder what mightve been....
hilarious stuff Killion

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04-24-2013, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gmm View Post
I don't know. This looks like respect to me. In the last All Time Draft he went before.
Man, I dont know about that. Some seriously decent
players on that list, and Sittler got ranked above them?

you people, all of you, on drugs.

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04-24-2013, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by gmm View Post
I don't know. This looks like respect to me. In the last All Time Draft he went before

Jimmy Thomson, D
Henrik Zetterberg, C/LW
Billy Smith, G
Sweeney Schriner, LW
Harvey Pulford, D
John LeClair, LW
Paul Kariya, LW
Pat Lafontaine, C
Babe Dye, RW
Hap Day, D
Luc Robitaille, LW
Allan Stanley, D
Mats Sundin, C
Is that the order the above guys went in the ATD?

Sundin should be ahead of him and Zetts will be once his career is over one would think.

Pat, Paul and John all have a case as well I would think.

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04-24-2013, 07:23 PM
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Sundin should be ahead of him and Zetts will be once his career is over one would think.
... doesnt make sense to me Hv. Zetterberg alone, superior player. I could rifle through the rest of them but what for?... Hap Day. Beyond SOLID.... Jimmy Thompson probably the closest to Sittler, and no, not alive when that mustache'od knumbknut played for the Leafs, was the Captain. Sent to Chicago & purgatory by Major Smythe for being a "traitor", a "Quizzling" as he called anyone who questioned his munificence & brilliance... if anything, if a Time Machine existed & I could go back, Id look Conn Smythe up. Damn straight. No one ever called him on his ****. The ego & legend just grew out of all proportion. I have no problem with anyone taking the 06'rs down, calling a spade a spade. Keep swingin.

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04-24-2013, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmm View Post
I don't know. This looks like respect to me. In the last All Time Draft he went before

Jimmy Thomson, D
Henrik Zetterberg, C/LW
Billy Smith, G
Sweeney Schriner, LW
Harvey Pulford, D
John LeClair, LW
Paul Kariya, LW
Pat Lafontaine, C
Babe Dye, RW
Hap Day, D
Luc Robitaille, LW
Allan Stanley, D
Mats Sundin, C
The all time draft people know their stuff. I'm talking about the general hockey watching public.

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04-24-2013, 08:01 PM
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The all time draft people know their stuff. I'm talking about the general hockey watching public.
Howd'ya figure that pork chop hoser? Closest approximation would be John
LeClair or Thompson. Not exactly Tri-Stellar comparisons. Whatre' you thinkin?

Darryl's a frikin Gawd?

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04-24-2013, 08:24 PM
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Wow, this one blew my mind. I would have guessed that Sittler outscored Perreault, because he had that really big season in 77-78. So I was going to say Sittler for scoring and Perreault for sheer skill, but...Unfortunately, I think the devil here is the stress playing for the Leafs had on Sittler's career. I think he could have done a little better had he played in a healthy environment. At the very least, lasted longer. So Perreault wins this for me, but he's funny in that he always left me wanting more. I think of Perreault's skills on par with Lafleur's in many ways. I think the lack of a good puck moving/rushing defenseman really hurt Perreault's chances at scoring titles.

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04-24-2013, 08:40 PM
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Wow, this one blew my mind. I would have guessed that Sittler outscored Perreault, because he had that really big season in 77-78. So I was going to say Sittler for scoring and Perreault for sheer skill, but...Unfortunately, I think the devil here is the stress playing for the Leafs had on Sittler's career. I think he could have done a little better had he played in a healthy environment. At the very least, lasted longer. So Perreault wins this for me, but he's funny in that he always left me wanting more. I think of Perreault's skills on par with Lafleur's in many ways. I think the lack of a good puck moving/rushing defenseman really hurt Perreault's chances at scoring titles.
Dionne also suffered from this but trying really hard to come up with a better Offensive Dman for Gilbert than Jerry Korab, which is pretty lousy for his best offensive Dman.

Guevremont?

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04-24-2013, 08:46 PM
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Wow, this one blew my mind. I would have guessed that Sittler outscored Perreault, because he had that really big season in 77-78. So I was going to say Sittler...
... Ug. Fact is, he wasnt up to it. Promoted to a rank over his head. Why do we have to spend anytime apologising for failures from the past LBD? Yet here we are, trying to explain Darryl Sittler. Mistake. Fact is, the guy was a selfish, narcissistic player who couldnt even hold Keons' jock strap let alone Armstrongs or Kennedys before him.

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04-24-2013, 08:55 PM
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... Ug. Fact is, he wasnt up to it. Promoted to a rank over his head. Why do we have to spend anytime apologising for failures from the past LBD? Yet here we are, trying to explain Darryl Sittler. Mistake. Fact is, the guy was a selfish, narcissistic player who couldnt even hold Keons' jock strap let alone Armstrongs or Kennedys before him.
Never thought of him that way, but didn't follow it as closely as I was about 11 when the events you described in your post above transpired. Don't forget though, **** flows downhill. It all starts at the top. Although Sittler may have made some questionable judgment calls, look at the sickness he had to breathe in everyday. Ballard a complete abusive idiot, Imlach, the dinosaur control freak, sexual abuse going on in the Garden that I'm sure everyone heard of and no one did anything about, firing Neilson and rehiring him and asking him to wear a paper bag, etc...Insanity. Lanny was lucky. He got out and redeemed a career that was going nowhere. Maybe Sittler was trying to do the same while he could still have an impact. Lots of kids run away from abusive homes because they can. Contracts don't allow you to do that.

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04-24-2013, 10:17 PM
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... Ug. Fact is, he wasnt up to it. Promoted to a rank over his head. Why do we have to spend anytime apologising for failures from the past LBD? Yet here we are, trying to explain Darryl Sittler. Mistake. Fact is, the guy was a selfish, narcissistic player who couldnt even hold Keons' jock strap let alone Armstrongs or Kennedys before him.
You know, it's kind of interesting to hear someone with a historic perspective like yourself talk about Sittler in those terms. As a younger guy born in the mid 80s, my only exposure to Sittler was through the usual historic accounts of the Ballard era and what a miserable regime he presided over. But then in the back of my mind, I always felt the whole McDonald trade/captaincy/Nielsen/Imlach/Brewer ostracism to have been a tad bit dramatic and cliquey, like I couldn't imagine a Sakic or Yzerman behaving that way. Anyway, I never went through that era first hand, so it's hard to really have too strong an opinion on the characters involved.

One thing that adds an extra wrinkle to the story is Punch Imlach is the guy who drafted Perreault and built a strong Buffalo Sabres contender around him, despite feuding with his players, and was fired before he could dismantle that club as it went into decline in the late 70s. Then he lands on his feet in Toronto and decimated the Leafs.

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04-24-2013, 10:20 PM
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Contracts don't allow you to do that.
No, but life does. If your employed by a Despot, EXIT stage left. Very simple.

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04-24-2013, 10:45 PM
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I think many people would disagree on Killions take on Sittler.

Sittler was also an underrated fighter, who when push came to shove could hold his own with guys who were known mostly for their fistic prowess.

Harold Ballard was as crazy a sports owner as there has ever been. He put his own ego way ahead of winning. I admire Sittler for standing up to him. Personally I think he was right up there with Bobby Clark as the best on ice leader in the game in the mid to late 70's.

For the record I am not a Leafs fan. Sittler was awesome. Plain and simple. Perrault was more talented, but in a winner take all playoff game, it would take me a fraction of a second to choose Sittler over Perrault.

Who had the better overall career?
I'd say Perrault. But put him in TO, and make him play under Ballards lunacy, and I'm not so sure things would have gone so well.

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04-24-2013, 11:31 PM
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No, but life does. If your employed by a Despot, EXIT stage left. Very simple.
Snagglepuss!

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04-25-2013, 12:09 AM
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Don't forget though, **** flows downhill.
Thats pretty disgusting LBD. My Granny was around, Sunlight Soap. Bar of it, straight down yer pie hole.

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I think many people would disagree on Killions take on Sittler.
Oh really? What, you think previous generations of beyond proud Torontonians just sat on their hands or bit their knuckles? Lemme tell you something Sport, my frikin 83 year old Aunt watched Sittler as a Rookie. Goes "that lads got talent, but he's got an ego problem". After several shots of Sherry of course. But tell ya what? The damned Octogenarian knew exactly what she was talking about. Having seen every single major player play the damn game since about 1917.

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You know, it's kind of interesting to hear someone with a historic perspective like yourself talk about Sittler in those terms.
Wasnt even close to Wendel, Gilmour or Sundin in terms of leadership. Ballard had that guy decked out as a False Prophet. Not unlike Rick Vaive.... Fact is, he was beyond Weak. Pathetic player, leader.... just forget it. That he's wrapped in false glory... by God knows who I have no idea. Talk about Revisionism. Hero to Generations Who Dont Know Any Better... the idiot supported Alan Eagleson before sentencing for Christ Sake. What else do you need to know?.

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04-25-2013, 12:26 AM
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Lemme tell you something Sport, my frikin 83 year old Aunt watched Sittler as a Rookie. Goes "that lads got talent, but he's got an ego problem". Hero to Generations Who Dont Know Any Better... the idiot supported Alan Eagleson before sentencing for Christ Sake. What else do you need to know?.
Okaaaaay. That I did not know. Eagleson must have boosted his ego so much that Sittler couldn't see the forest through the trees. That's really telling. I grew up not liking Sittler because my dad didn't like him. He used to say things similar to your aunt. How he would hesitate to pass to his foreign wingers. But my dad loved to watch the Russians which I couldn't understand at a young age. Why isn't he just cheering for Canada? So my brain got all mixed up. Anyway, I'm not backing down from for my trickle down theory. I've been a victim of following the leader too...as an adult. We always forget to ask ourselves, probably because our big ego is getting something out of the deal, what's really going on here? Where there are sheep, you will always find a wolf in sheep's clothing.

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04-25-2013, 12:53 AM
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Where there are sheep, you will always find a wolf in sheep's clothing.
No really true Leaf fan did like Sittler LBD. We just didnt like Sittler. Why? Goofball. Idiot. If your a Leafs fan do you like Phaneuf? Same thing. Beyond apparent the Dudes a Moron. Zero characte.. Anyhoo.. thats what it is. Yer old Dad?. He's right. Ya reckon he'd like ta have a drink or 63 with me?

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