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Phaneuf talks contract

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Old
02-18-2013, 07:07 PM
  #126
BillyD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Dion Phaneuf's +/- is even in his career through 500+ NHL games all of which are played on two terrible teams...Calgary and Toronto (so far).

The guy plays 27 minutes a game...he was a -8 at one point because of the two terrible games we had on our NY road trip.
I think thats called "damning with faint praise"

makes him a number one eh?

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Old
02-18-2013, 07:22 PM
  #127
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We'll see if he takes a paycut, I doubt it though.

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02-18-2013, 07:32 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Fearless Leaf View Post
No, Dion doesn't play a responsible defensive game.
Care to prove this? Logic suggests that playing against top lines and only allowing 3 EV strength goals in the games played in Feb that he is a good defensively.

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02-18-2013, 08:00 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Parkdale View Post
To clarify, 2nd pairing D meaning the 2nd best D on the team like the way the Leafs use defensemen pairings. Dion has many great aspects to his game, and I'm glad he is on the team, but I think there is room for improvement for our #1. Hard to get in a trade, probably has to be developed from within.
Agreed. This kind of thing goes unnoticed so much. A Cup contender team is usually going to split up their number 1 and 2.

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Old
02-18-2013, 08:01 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Id be happy if we could get him signed longterm at 5.5-6. Considering Wideman, Wizniewski, Burns, etc have. I cant see it being any lower, and could still be up near 6.5. Hopefully not though.

This, the first 2 guys i thought of were Matt Carle and Brent Burns

I can see his new contract in the 5.5 - 6.2 range. He also wont make less than Grabo

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02-18-2013, 08:04 PM
  #131
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I would be satisfied at 6m per, ecstatic at 5.5m per, and pretty much creaming myself (exaggeration noted) if he got 5m per for about 5 years. The guy is a great top pairing d-man, but he's a #2D, not a #1. I would hope in the future, Rielly will fill up that spot, allowing Dion to play his shutdown role.

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02-18-2013, 08:22 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Donmega View Post
We'll see if he takes a paycut, I doubt it though.
Agreed, I just don't want him to get a raise. I think the same salary would be acceptable, though we'd all love him to take less.

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02-18-2013, 09:21 PM
  #133
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another great performance from our dominant #1 dman tonight.

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Old
02-18-2013, 09:41 PM
  #134
The Magic Man
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Why is everyone so focused on him taking a 1M pay cut? When we have Komi at 4.5M riding the pines. Grabs at 5.5M crapping the bed offensively, and Liles at 3.8M.

So many other poor decisions by Burke when resigning. I hope Nonis had little to do with those. All of those players are ~1M or more overpaid and have almost nothing to do with our success. Dion is one of the biggest reasons we are winning and your focused on his salary?

He would get more as a FA. I'd bet both nuts if I could.

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Old
02-18-2013, 09:46 PM
  #135
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I hope one of these leafs - between lupul, liles, kessel or phaneuf take a hometown discount. There will not be cap space flexibility soon.

Also Phaneuf is way overpaid at his salary.

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02-18-2013, 09:50 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by zapy View Post
Most overrated player in the NHL in my opinion,1. has the worst +/- on our team. I think just trade him, because I wouldn't want to pay him anything more than 3.5/year but he'll probably want more.

You bring a defencemen from the marlies and you can count on him more than Phaneuf. How many times I've seen Phaneuf make a mistake or cost us a goal. 2. His shot sucks too, he always misses the net or hits one of our players.

He's supposedly a good 'leader' in the locker room, well any team should have some of those and that doesn't mean he should be paid more (or significantly more) for that.

The other thing I really dont like him is he's not someone you can count on. He's not good defencibly and he has one of the worst shots (aim) of any defencemen I've seen in the NHL.

I think this is a good time to trade him. For 6.5mil/year we can get an actual good player.

So much fail in this thread. I'm glad this is the first post I've seen of yours in a while.

1. Worst +/- = terrible? By that logic, Mark Fraser is one of the best players in the entire league. Oh...

2. Common myth, just like the idea that Phaneuf is bad person. People need to be able to let go of the past. Jeeze, I wonder how some of you people carry relationships with actual people with the way you hold things against Phaneuf.

3. Statements like these make LeafsNation look stupid, and is part of the reason that people around the league think Phaneuf is a bum.

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02-18-2013, 09:52 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
This, the first 2 guys i thought of were Matt Carle and Brent Burns

I can see his new contract in the 5.5 - 6.2 range. He also wont make less than Grabo
Do players think in terms of salary or caphit, though?

$5.5M cap hit for a 5 year contract vs. a $5M cap hit for a 8 year contract.

Can't compare 5 year contracts to 8 year contracts; it's not so black and white.

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Old
02-18-2013, 09:52 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by number72 View Post
I hope one of these leafs - between lupul, liles, kessel or phaneuf take a hometown discount. There will not be cap space flexibility soon.

Also Phaneuf is way overpaid at his salary.
What?

Bolded are already resigned.

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02-18-2013, 09:53 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Naz View Post
Why is everyone so focused on him taking a 1M pay cut? When we have Komi at 4.5M riding the pines. Grabs at 5.5M crapping the bed offensively, and Liles at 3.8M.

So many other poor decisions by Burke when resigning. I hope Nonis had little to do with those. All of those players are ~1M or more overpaid and have almost nothing to do with our success. Dion is one of the biggest reasons we are winning and your focused on his salary?

He would get more as a FA. I'd bet both nuts if I could.
I don't think your catching the full scope of this.

He will be signing when he is 29, if we sign him to 8 years, that puts his 6,7,8th seasons at the age of 35,36,37, most players see a pay cut in those declining years.

Don't confuse a 5m or 5.5m cap hit as a pay cut, with his last remaining prime 5 years ( the first 5 years of the deal) he will be paid well.

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Old
02-18-2013, 10:20 PM
  #140
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I just love it. As soon as this board has a group dumping on a player that player shoves it down their throat.

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Old
02-18-2013, 10:30 PM
  #141
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I was surprised when I found out he was a minus -8 a few games back because I thought he was playing fine, now I'm definitely not going to put much stock into that stat cause he's still a minus -5 but he looks great out there. I've typically been neutral towards him but his play especially of late is deserving of the #1 defensemen tag IMO.

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02-18-2013, 10:33 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Smif View Post
I was surprised when I found out he was a minus -8 a few games back because I thought he was playing fine, now I'm definitely not going to put much stock into that stat cause he's still a minus -5 but he looks great out there. I've typically been neutral towards him but his play especially of late is deserving of the #1 defensemen tag IMO.
The beauty thing is that with Fraser et al playing well they can reduce some of his minutes. He will be fresher when it matters that way and continue his good play hopefully.

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02-18-2013, 10:56 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
I don't think your catching the full scope of this.

He will be signing when he is 29, if we sign him to 8 years, that puts his 6,7,8th seasons at the age of 35,36,37, most players see a pay cut in those declining years.

Don't confuse a 5m or 5.5m cap hit as a pay cut, with his last remaining prime 5 years ( the first 5 years of the deal) he will be paid well.
he will be signing at 28.

An 8yr contract will take him through age 35.

And in 8yrs, the cap will be at 80-90 mil and his caphit won't be anywhere near the league leaders.

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:05 PM
  #144
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Dion can be a #1 defender on a Cup winning team. What we need to improve on this team is the #2 and #3 options.

Fair value for Dion is:

5 years @ $6M AAV

8 years @ $5.5-5.75 AAV

Less than that will be a home town discount.

I think it will ultimately be 5 years @ $5.75 (comparable to Brent Burns).

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:08 PM
  #145
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No way he gets 8 years at big money. And I like him.

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02-18-2013, 11:12 PM
  #146
Pi
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What does Phaneuf have to do to become a #1?

Win the Art Ross?
Lead the +/- table?
Miss less shots? Even though evidence suggest that Pietrangelo, Doughty, Chara, Karlsson, and about 20 other D's miss more shots than Phaneuf?
Play 60 minutes in a game like the goalie?

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:13 PM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
What does Phaneuf have to do to become a #1?

Win the Art Ross?
Lead the +/- table?
Miss less shots? Even though evidence suggest that Pietrangelo, Doughty, Chara, Karlsson, and about 20 other D's miss more shots than Phaneuf?
Play 60 minutes in a game like the goalie?
umm how about lead a team to the playoffs, once, before anyone even has this discussion

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Old
02-19-2013, 06:37 AM
  #148
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I challenge you to prove that Dion Phaneuf is not a 6.5M defenceman on the open market.
Here's a pretty decent list of the top 30 defensemen in the NHL from a recent HF boards thread. Dion is probably somewhere between #20 and #30 I would say.

#1 - Shea Weber - Nashville Predators Cap Hit = $7.8M, Years in NHL = 7
#2 - Zdeno Chara - Boston Bruins Cap Hit = $6.9M, Years in NHL = 14
#3 - Erik Karlsson - Ottawa Senators Cap Hit = $6.5M, Years in NHL = 3
#4 - Alex Pietrangelo - St. Louis Blues Cap Hit = $3.2M, Years in NHL = 4
#5 - Ryan Suter - Nashville Predators Cap Hit = $7.5M, Years in NHL = 7
#6 - Nicklas Lidstrom - Detroit Red Wings (retired) Cap Hit = $6.2M, Years in NHL = 20!
#7 - Kris Letang - Pittsburgh Penguins Cap Hit = $3.5M, Years in NHL = 6
#8 - Chris Pronger - Philadelphia Flyers Cap Hit = $4.9M, Years in NHL = 17
#9 - Drew Doughty - Los Angeles Kings Cap Hit = $7.0M, Years in NHL = 4
#10 - Duncan Keith - Chicago Blackhawks Cap Hit = $5.5M, Years in NHL = 7
#11 - Keith Yandle - Phoenix Coyotes Cap Hit = $5.3M, Years in NHL = 6
#12 - Dan Boyle - San Jose Sharks Cap Hit = $6.7M, Years in NHL = 14
#13 - Dustin Byfuglien - Winnipeg Jets Cap Hit = $5.2M, Years in NHL = 7
#14 - Alexander Edler - Vancouver Canucks Cap Hit = $3.3M, Years in NHL = 6
#15 - Brent Seabrook - Chicago Blackhawks Cap Hit = $5.8M, Years in NHL = 7
#16 - Brian Campbell - Florida Panthers Cap Hit = $7.1M, Years in NHL = 13
#17 - PK Subban - Montreal Canadiens Cap Hit = $2.9M, Years in NHL = 3
#18 - Tobias Enstrom - Winnipeg Jets Cap Hit = $3.8M, Years in NHL = 5
#19 - Mike Green - New York Rangers Cap Hit = $7.8M, Years in NHL = 7
#20 - Kimmo Timonen - Philadelphia Flyers Cap Hit = $6.3M, Years in NHL = 13
#21 - Michael Del Zotto - New York Rangers Cap Hit = $2.6M, Years in NHL = 3
#22 - Tyler Myers - Buffalo Sabres Cap Hit = $5.5M, Years in NHL = 3
#23 - Andrei Markov - Montreal Canadiens Cap Hit = $5.8M, Years in NHL = 11
#24 - Kevin Shattenkirk - St Louis Blues Cap Hit = $1.3M, Years in NHL = 3
#25 - Dan Girardi - New York Rangers Cap Hit = $3.3M, Years in NHL = 6
#26 - Nicklas Kronwall - Detroit Red Wings Cap Hit = $4.8M, Years in NHL = 8
#27 - Brent Burns - San Jose Sharks Cap Hit = $5.8M, Years in NHL = 8
#28 - Lubomir Lisnovsky - New York Islanders Cap Hit = $5.6M, Years in NHL = 12
#29 - Sergei Gonchar - Ottawa Senators Cap Hit = $5.5M, Years in NHL = 18
#30 - Mark Streit - New York Islanders Cap Hit = $4.1M, Years in NHL = 6

HM: Giordano, Carle, OEL, Bieksa, etc



For Dion, he's played 8 seasons and has a $6.5M cap hit... closest comparables have to be guys like Byfuglien, Burns, Seabrook, Kronwall, Green (hugely overpaid), etc.

In order for him to be fairly paid, I would say something between $5.0-6.0M cap hit.

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Old
02-19-2013, 06:43 AM
  #149
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I'd be happy if we can lock phaneuf up at around 5.5-6 per which is about what I believe his value is.

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Old
02-19-2013, 07:13 AM
  #150
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Sign the beast!

8 years @ $5.5 per = $44 million

Give him term and in return he gives us a manageable cap hit.

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