Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
To sit here and suggest being in the top 15 in the voting constitutes anything except he's a pretty good defensive center, is pushing the envelope.
Well it means he was a better defensive player than 237 other centers (yes I was lazy and included guy who played only 1 game, but you get the point)
And even if he finished top-15 in selke votes, hes still a 21 year old kid. I don't think theres any reason he can't have a Mike Richards/Ryan Kesler-esque defensive game.
15 in Selke trophy voting isn't really all that noteworthy. If he was a top 5 finalist, maybe. 40-60 points from a guy playing mostly as a 2nd line center is to be expected in today's NHL. ROR finished with 55.
Exactly... And Im in no means suggesting he isnt a really good player with a great NHL future. It's just some of these proposals are crazy in comparison to what other guys fetched.
I remember when Leafs fans said Luke Schenn was untouchable. Rielly is a blue chip prospect but jesus talk about thinking he is the 2nd coming. He wouldn't even get top 4 minutes for the next few years. O'Reilly could help you NOW. It's a deep draft this year too you could always draft a defenseman like Ryan Pulock or Seth Jones if you fall off the wagon again like last season.
Im sure Av's fans would tell you Gardiner/Rielly aren't #1 d-men.
Sure. That's why Rielly was just named WHL player of the week...it was a fluke. And why Garinder was second on Leafs D scoring while playing primarily as a 2nd pairing defenseman.
Rielly is projected as a top pairing defenseman, and Gardiner played most of last year as a 2nd pairing defenseman, while coming in 2nd in Leafs D scoring.
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I think most hockey minds will tell you that ROR is a safe bet to be a #1 center, (much like Gardiner/Rielly should be top pairing guys).
Yeah, and most fantasy minds will tell you that Dragons and Unicorns are real too.
I remember when Leafs fans said Luke Schenn was untouchable. Rielly is a blue chip prospect but jesus talk about thinking he is the 2nd coming. He wouldn't even get top 4 minutes for the next few years. O'Reilly could help you NOW. It's a deep draft this year too you could always draft a defenseman like Ryan Pulock or Seth Jones if you fall off the wagon again like last season.
Luke Schenn was never a great skater or had much offensive upside. Rielly and Gardiner are completely different players.
I really like ROR, I think he's got a decent shot at becoming a ~65-70 point Selke/borderline Selke calibre of player, but I wouldn't move Rielly for him.
Fair enough (regarding Rielly/Gardiner). I prefer Rielly to Gardiner as well, but I would be willing to put either on the table for ROR.
I really think he has the tools to be a Ryan Kesler caliber player, and one of those forwards who can put the team on his back.
Exactly... And Im in no means suggesting he isnt a really good player with a great NHL future. It's just some of these proposals are crazy in comparison to what other guys fetched.
Yup. ROR is a decent player, a complimentary player who's a good depth player to have. But he is not a 1st line center.
And, if he was worth the value people are cracking him up to be, he would have been dealt by now.
Young 1st line centers don't stay on the market long, especially when other teams are trying to move them. ROR is not a 1st line center.
If this was Matt Duchene instead of ROR, the values being asked would be much more reasonable.
Luke Schenn was never a great skater or had much offensive upside. Rielly and Gardiner are completely different players.
it doesn't matter. He was supposed to be that No.1 Shutdown dman that lead your team to the playoffs in years to come. At the draft even TSN were saying the Rebuild was rocking with that pick.
I remember when Leafs fans said Luke Schenn was untouchable. Rielly is a blue chip prospect but jesus talk about thinking he is the 2nd coming. He wouldn't even get top 4 minutes for the next few years. O'Reilly could help you NOW. It's a deep draft this year too you could always draft a defenseman like Ryan Pulock or Seth Jones if you fall off the wagon again like last season.
Brian Burke is that you? I could of sworn you had this same kind of speech when trading for Kessel.
Why would Toronto give up a promising young puck moving defenseman and a player nearly comparable to ROR(Bozak) just for ROR? That's giving up too much.
If you want Tim Connolly, Liles, Komisarek, or MacArthur going along with him, then it would be considering. But Gardiner or Rielly plus Bozak, Grabovski or Kadri is just suicidally dumb for the Leafs.
Bozak, Grabovski, and Kadri are not of the same value. Grabs and Kadri both hold a fair amount more.
Bozak is an upcoming UFA, he's valued as a rental right now, that hurts his value enough that it makes it fair IMO to add him to Gardiner.
Avs could possibly add a 3rd or something, but Gardiner + Bozak for ROR is close, and in fact was proposed by a few Leafs fans over the course of these discussions.
Sure. That's why Rielly was just named WHL player of the week...it was a fluke. And why Garinder was second on Leafs D scoring while playing primarily as a 2nd pairing defenseman.
Rielly is projected as a top pairing defenseman, and Gardiner played most of last year as a 2nd pairing defenseman, while coming in 2nd in Leafs D scoring.
Yeah, and most fantasy minds will tell you that Dragons and Unicorns are real too.
I think Reilly/Gardiner have 1st pairing written all over them.
But you discounting ROR's value is like AV's fans saying "they will be top-4 guys at best"
Brian Burke is that you? I could of sworn you had this same kind of speech when trading for Kessel.
A two-way forward with a high ceiling is different than a high scoring winger. Championships are built from the middle-down. Plus if I was Burke I wouldn't have the 1st round pick but I stated that you would still have yours!
it doesn't matter. He was supposed to be that No.1 Shutdown dman that lead your team to the playoffs in years to come. At the draft even TSN were saying the Rebuild was rocking with that pick.
I guess Luke Schenn had to settle for being the number one shutdown dman for Philly
Bozak, Grabovski, and Kadri are not of the same value. Grabs and Kadri both hold a fair amount more.
Bozak is an upcoming UFA, he's valued as a rental right now, that hurts his value enough that it makes it fair IMO to add him to Gardiner.
Avs could possibly add a 3rd or something, but Gardiner + Bozak for ROR is close, and in fact was proposed by a few Leafs fans over the course of these discussions.
Bozak will not be a rental if he's traded to Denver, let's be honest.
A two-way forward with a high ceiling is different than a high scoring winger. Championships are built from the middle-down. Plus if I was Burke I wouldn't have the 1st round pick but I stated that you would still have yours!
And despite Kessel being a top 10 scorer in the league and one of the deadliest snipers in the game today who won that trade? Toronto or Boston? O'Reilly would have huge expectations to fill and even if he has the same amount of success as Kessel, he'd prolly still get ridiculed. After all, its not like Colorado was that successful with him in the lineup.
Top 5 two-way center in the league along with the bidding war that's going on right now expect to see a massive overpayment for the guy, sorry it's just the way it is.
top-5? did i read that right? Maybe top-5 within the NW division
And despite Kessel being a top 10 scorer in the league and one of the deadliest snipers in the game today who won that trade? Toronto or Boston? O'Reilly would have huge expectations to fill and even if he has the same amount of success as Kessel, he'd prolly still get ridiculed. After all, its not like Colorado was that successful with him in the lineup.
I've long contended that Kessel creates most of his own offense. He's had chemistry with guys like Lupul(playmaking winger) and Kulemin(powerforward winger), but everyone else who tries to play with him struggles. Bozak mainly hangs back picking up the defensive slack, and is kind of a grinder doing a lot of what he does away from the camera. But it's not very often he's the one actually setting up Kessel.
ROR wouldn't be a huge upgrade over Bozak...it's just the truth. I say, if you move Bozak and add ROR, you disrupt Kessel's chemistry with Bozak, since they are such strong friends. By moving Bozak, you pretty much are tipping your hat that you are also planning on flipping Kessel as well.
Sure. That's why Rielly was just named WHL player of the week...it was a fluke. And why Garinder was second on Leafs D scoring while playing primarily as a 2nd pairing defenseman.
Rielly is projected as a top pairing defenseman, and Gardiner played most of last year as a 2nd pairing defenseman, while coming in 2nd in Leafs D scoring.
Yeah, and most fantasy minds will tell you that Dragons and Unicorns are real too.
Avs 7th round pick Colin Smith has been WHL player of the week 3 times this season. If that's your argument for Reilly being a 1st pairing D in the NHL, then what should we expect from Smith?
Theres a good crowd of people who think ROR > Duchene
And for a lot of people its a toss up
People who had one two many beers, perhaps.
ROR got hyped up too much last season. He was a media love story. Duchene only played 58 games. Hence, his inflated stats. Do you think Greg Sherman doesn't know that and hence his reluctance to pay him the money and terms ROR wants?
ROR: two 26 point seasons, and one 55 point season.
Bozak: 27 point season, 32 point season, 47 point season.
On a side note, Bozak also played in less games than ROR did in years 1 and 3.
Yes, Gardiner/Rielly and Bozak/Grabovski or Kadri is giving up too much, and poor asset management.
You...could.. you know.. factor in things like..
Age: ROR was 18 in his first year, Bozak was undrafted at 18... His first year he was 23
Linemates: Bozaks been playing with Kessel since his first year, and had Lupul last year. Two PPG wingers. ROR? His first two years he was playing with 3rd/4th liners
PP Time: ROR got 35 seconds PP TOI/G in his first season.... Bozak got 3:39...
Defensive Zone Starts: 57% of the time his first year, 59.5% the second year... Bozak? 43.3% and 47.6%...
Etc:
Come on. Add a little context, it changes things quite a bit
Last season was the FIRST season ROR was given ANY kind of offensive opportunity, and he ended up leading the team in points when he was 20/21. A solid 2-3 years younger than Bozak was when he had his first season (half season actually) at the NHL level. Now, almost age 27, Bozak still hasnt cracked RORs career high in points despite having significantly better wingers offensively, and isn't nearly as strong defensively.
