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Toronto-Colorado (yes o'reilly)

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Old
02-21-2013, 05:37 PM
  #401
daveleaf
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Originally Posted by MikeC View Post
The kid has a lot of potential but bonafide #1 Norris. Drinking 15-20 coffees a day is not good for you!!

Today, would you trade Hamilton and Seguin for Kessel??? No! But your team did it because they wanted help now and Burke knew that nothing is sure with prospects. So before saying that Reilly in the next coming of Lindstrom or Bourque, he needs to proove it.
That was Burke that made that trade, not Leaf fans. If any team in the NHL has learned something from that trade is you don't trade your first round pics in the era. Would you trade Galchenyuk today for ROR? I wouldn't and that is why I would hang onto Reily. Whether he is Norris material or not he has the potential to be a top pairing d-man for years to come. Just a poor way of building a team by trading away all your young talent. Leafs have 44 years of proof. Difference in LA is that they traded away for quality and were at a different point in the building cycle. Is Reily Norris material? How the hell would I know but he is as slam dunk as NHL material as any player in the top five last year.

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02-21-2013, 05:37 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
As I said, see if the Islanders bite. Trading away a fifth overall pic of a player that many were calling a top pic if he didn't get injured is way too much in my books. That would be like Leafs offering Grabovski for Duschenne a few years back. As I said, top six young player + a pic and that pic depends on how desperate the team is. In this draft will be very hard to get a first but some teams may take the plunge.
Grabovski was as established as Duchene three years ago. It would have been more like Philadelphia offering Richards for Brayden Schenn back in 2009. Philly got more as Richards became more established and Schenn still didn't make LA's team and still to today Schenn hasn't surpassed Richards.

Rielly is not Karlsson and likely will never be. Exactly how many defenders have been that impressive offensively in the past twenty odd years? You have as good a chance trying to win the lottery.

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02-21-2013, 05:38 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
I said POTENTIAL. How many people thought Lidstrom, Chara, Karlsson, or Weber had Norris level potential when they were drafted? Rielly was drafted higher than all of them, has only impressed more since being drafted, and yet according to you he can never become a bona-fide #1 Norris level player?
Jesus. Chara couldn't even skate when he was drafted. Was the most awkward looking skating man early on that I have ever seen. When Ott got him as part of that package I wondered what the hell they were doing. They spent a ton of time developing that guy.

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02-21-2013, 05:43 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Grabovski was as established as Duchene three years ago. It would have been more like Philadelphia offering Richards for Brayden Schenn back in 2009. Philly got more as Richards became more established and Schenn still didn't make LA's team and still to today Schenn hasn't surpassed Richards.

Rielly is not Karlsson and likely will never be. Exactly how many defenders have been that impressive offensively in the past twenty odd years? You have as good a chance trying to win the lottery.
Picking straws. Reilly has as much opportunity to be a top d-man in this game and Duschene has to be top centre man in this game. It's all perspective. Last year everyone was talking about the poor attitude about Duschene, this year not a peep. When LA made that trade they got arguably the best player not in the NHL in Schenn, in many scouts eyes and Simmonds on top. To date Simmonds has been the better player but Brayden was fighting a lot of injuries year one, who knows how that one turned out but Richards won at every level but the NHL at that point and took his team to the cup finals. Not saying ROR is not worth something but I wouldn't trade my 5th overall last year for him. NYI might be the best bet.

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02-21-2013, 05:43 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
Rielly is arguably one of the top d prospect outside the NHL. Not only by Leaf fans. There are countless other resources that have acknowledged this. I would show you some and will show you some evidence if you request it, but this is not a Prospect thread, so I'll save it. The value is increased even more knowing our past history with prospects and our lack of elite prospects.

In the same manner of how hard it will be for Avs fans to part with Duchene is similar for most leaf fans to part with Rielly based on all the factors I described above.

The way you are underating rielly is similar to the way we are underrating O'reilly
A very key word bolded.

In 2007, Thomas Hickey was drafted 4th overall, ahead of Alzner, Shattenkirk, Eller... and a 2nd round pick named PK Subban.

In 2004, Cam Barker was taken 3rd overall. Would you rather have him, or the 91st overall pick that year, Alex Edler? Or 262nd pick Mark Streit?

I'm not saying Rielly is not a great prospect. I'm saying he's still a prospect. And for every highly touted prospect that makes it big, there is another one that doesn't live up to expectations.

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02-21-2013, 05:47 PM
  #406
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Why is Rielly's name even being discussed. If other fans don't think he has x potential, then good for you cause his not being traded. It's funny reading Avs/etc fans wanting Rielly in a trade but yet trying to discredit his potential and etc haha.

Keep Rielly out of discussions, as it's just waste of time imo.

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02-21-2013, 05:54 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Sonny21 View Post
Why is Rielly's name even being discussed. If other fans don't think he has x potential, then good for you cause his not being traded. It's funny reading Avs/etc fans wanting Rielly in a trade but yet trying to discredit his potential and etc haha.

Keep Rielly out of discussions, as it's just waste of time imo.
I agree.
The problem is that you just took the only asset that would really intrigue the Avs in return for ROR from the Leafs off the table. Gardiner is too much of a questionmark
and Kadri/Kessel won't be traded while being in the hunt for the playoffs.
So I fully agree. Avs are not getting Rielly.
Leafs are hopefully not getting ROR.
End of story.

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02-21-2013, 05:55 PM
  #408
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What all of this basically comes down do is Avs fans think O'Reilly will bring a Joe Thornton return and most others disagree.

The best thing about this, is we're probably going to find out.

I'm on record saying he's worth Gardiner and a #2 or equivalent prospect

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02-21-2013, 05:57 PM
  #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny21 View Post
Why is Rielly's name even being discussed. If other fans don't think he has x potential, then good for you cause his not being traded. It's funny reading Avs/etc fans wanting Rielly in a trade but yet trying to discredit his potential and etc haha.

Keep Rielly out of discussions, as it's just waste of time imo.
Because your fellow fans will not stop trying to acquire O'Reilly from us.

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02-21-2013, 06:06 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
I agree.
The problem is that you just took the only asset that would really intrigue the Avs in return for ROR from the Leafs off the table. Gardiner is too much of a questionmark
and Kadri/Kessel won't be traded while being in the hunt for the playoffs.
So I fully agree. Avs are not getting Rielly.
Leafs are hopefully not getting ROR.
End of story.
I can understand some concerns with his concussion, but there is no history, that was his first concussion. The only reason his in the AHL was because he went for a full month without a single day of training, and then he was thrown right into action.

So it's clearly understandable why he would look rusty, if you have followed Marlies recently, you'll know Gardiner has been returning to form and has been one of the best players. I expect either a trade or something to create a opening for him very soon.

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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Because your fellow fans will not stop trying to acquire O'Reilly from us.
I guess we will find out what kind of return O'Reilly will return. Every fan base sometimes wants to get good players for cheap but I don't think this is one of those situations.

If you can get Gardiner type return, Avs management did great. Not because Gardiner>>O'Reilly, rather because it's fair.

Now if Avs fans think that's not fair or enough, well I guess we can disagree. There has been some good discussions back and forth regarding Gardiner and etc and if that's good or what not.

However Rielly does not belong in any discussions for O'Reilly trade. I am a big O'Reilly fan and have defended him a lot as well in Leafs forum, but he will NOT return Rielly level of return.


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Old
02-21-2013, 06:12 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
No thanks. Too good of a draft and a decent chance we still draft top 5. Rielly for O'Reilly is the most I'll still do.
We wont.

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02-21-2013, 06:13 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by Sonny21 View Post
I guess we will find out what kind of return O'Reilly will return. Every fan base sometimes wants to get good players for cheap but I don't think this is one of those situations.

If you can get Gardiner type return, Avs management did great. Not because Gardiner>>O'Reilly, rather because it's fair.

Now if Avs fans think that's not fair or enough, well I guess we can disagree. There has been some good discussions back and forth regarding Gardiner and etc and if that's good or what not.

However Rielly does not belong in any discussions for O'Reilly trade. I am a big O'Reilly fan and have defended him a lot as well in Leafs forum, but he will NOT return Rielly level of return.
We will agree to disagree. I see no reason the Avs should accept Gardiner when O'Reilly makes a bigger impact on our team than Gardiner would. We've got Barrie and Elliott already, we need a defender that is definitively better than them, not on par.

The real problem other fans have is we still recognize O'Reilly is not lost, he could comeback. He does not HAVE to be traded and therefore we're not back up against a wall.

Just like you may not want to move Rielly for what you feel is someone that will be less valuable than his potential in Toronto, we don't want to move O'Reilly for someone we feel will be less valuable than his potential in Colorado.

It's really quite sad that we're being attacked for feeling the same way Leafs fans do about our player.

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02-21-2013, 06:19 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by IWantSakicAsMyGM View Post
Staal was 1 year away from being a UFA when he was traded. For a former #11 pick C in Sutter, a former 2nd round pick D in Dumoulin, and the 8th overall pick in the 2012 draft.
Staal was moved to save cap space money and add organizational depth that the Penguins were seeking to plug other holes. That's why Sutter comes in at half price@$2/per. Staal is making $4, then $6.

If you think ROR is Jordan Staal, because of just one season, then why didn't the Avalanche try to flip him to Pittsburgh and succeed? Staal has put up 50 points nearly three times already. He also did so last season playing in just 62 games. This year, he is scoring at nearly a PPG pace. He is without a doubt a better player than ROR.


Quote:
O'Reilly has a very comparable skillset as JStaal, has several years of RFA left, and yet somehow isn't worth Rielly, the 5th overall pick from the 2012 draft.
So, if that's the case, why didn't the Leafs and Avalanche trade ROR for the 5th overall in last summers draft?

Quote:
HF logic at its best.
That's right, it's a classic case of a home team(in this case the Avalanche) trying to deal a one-hit wonder. A guy who they won't and can't sign, don't really have roster room for, decided to look at other plans, and hope some team will overpay so they can walk out winners. And, the fan-base believes it too.

By this logic, Vanilla Ice still has a heck of a career ahead of him.

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02-21-2013, 06:20 PM
  #414
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Gunnarson Grabovski and 2nd Rnd 2013

Avalanche want Gardiner, well Gunnarson is currently better than him, or else Gardiner would be playing and Kostka/Fraser/Liles/occasionally Komisarek wouldn't be

Grabovski is a legit number 2 centre replacing the current legit number 2 that isn't even playing

2nd round pick becomes whatever offensive minded d prospect the avalanche want on top of their own high second round pick

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02-21-2013, 06:20 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
I don't think its a huge leap to compare ROR to Kesler/Bergeron.

I think Rielly will be very good... but definitely not Karlsson/Weber good.
Was Karlsson/Weber Karlsson/Weber good at Rielly's age?

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02-21-2013, 06:22 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
We will agree to disagree. I see no reason the Avs should accept Gardiner when O'Reilly makes a bigger impact on our team than Gardiner would. We've got Barrie and Elliott already, we need a defender that is definitively better than them, not on par.

The real problem other fans have is we still recognize O'Reilly is not lost, he could comeback. He does not HAVE to be traded and therefore we're not back up against a wall.

Just like you may not want to move Rielly for what you feel is someone that will be less valuable than his potential in Toronto, we don't want to move O'Reilly for someone we feel will be less valuable than his potential in Colorado.

It's really quite sad that we're being attacked for feeling the same way Leafs fans do about our player.
I do think you're underestimating Gardiner's impact he would have on Avs though. Someone who has top end skating and speed and who has shown to put up good production as rookie as well.

I won't dismiss that he could re-sign with Avs but you gotta admit with the speculation of bad blood and his dad getting involved and speaking out, it's unlikely but far from impossible either.

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02-21-2013, 06:26 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by IWantSakicAsMyGM View Post
A very key word bolded.

In 2007, Thomas Hickey was drafted 4th overall, ahead of Alzner, Shattenkirk, Eller... and a 2nd round pick named PK Subban.

In 2004, Cam Barker was taken 3rd overall. Would you rather have him, or the 91st overall pick that year, Alex Edler? Or 262nd pick Mark Streit?

I'm not saying Rielly is not a great prospect. I'm saying he's still a prospect. And for every highly touted prospect that makes it big, there is another one that doesn't live up to expectations.
And ROR is arguably a #1 centre. There is a very big thing that you are forgetting about Hickey and Barker. They are not Rielly. Sometimes top picks become good players.

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02-21-2013, 06:31 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by Sonny21 View Post
I do think you're underestimating Gardiner's impact he would have on Avs though. Someone who has top end skating and speed and who has shown to put up good production as rookie as well.

I won't dismiss that he could re-sign with Avs but you gotta admit with the speculation of bad blood and his dad getting involved and speaking out, it's unlikely but far from impossible either.
Likewise, I think you and others are underestimating O'Reilly's impact on the Leafs. He has the ability to win multiple Selkes thanks to his recent publicity boost (a reputation award) and his offense is underrated.

What we've heard from a second hand source familiar with O'Reilly is that he does not have a problem with the team, coaching staff or Denver as a whole, but rather management's negotiation tactics used.

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02-21-2013, 06:41 PM
  #419
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
Wow the hypocrisy here...

So O'reilly and his 55 point year is already at the level of Kesler and Bergeron, but Rielly can't ever get to Karlsson/Weber good.

But even if you're right, and Rielly never gets to the Karlsson/Weber level while O'Reilly gets to the Kesler/Bergeron level, I would still take a Letang/Keith level D-man over a Kesler/Bergeron level C.
No, but I think the chance of ROR becoming Kesler/Bergeron is quite a bit more than Rielly becoming Karlsson/Norris good.

Again, I think Rielly is very good and will probably be a top-10 d-man when he hits his prime.

But me personally I would take Kesler over a Letang (but thats just something we would have to agree to disagree on).


If the Leafs didn't look to be set on the blueline with Phaneuf/Gardiner/(even Finn looks promising) I wouldn't consider moving Rielly. But it is a position of strength for this team.

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02-21-2013, 06:43 PM
  #420
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
Was Karlsson/Weber Karlsson/Weber good at Rielly's age?
No, and neither were Kesler/Bergeron.

Feel free to disagree, but I see ROR as more likely to win a Selke than Rielly is to win a Norris.

I think Rielly will be a very good d-man (likely a top-10 caliber)


I just would personally take ROR

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02-21-2013, 06:49 PM
  #421
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Likewise, I think you and others are underestimating O'Reilly's impact on the Leafs. He has the ability to win multiple Selkes thanks to his recent publicity boost (a reputation award) and his offense is underrated.

What we've heard from a second hand source familiar with O'Reilly is that he does not have a problem with the team, coaching staff or Denver as a whole, but rather management's negotiation tactics used.
But I am not, if you have read or followed my post history you will see that I don't underrate O'Reilly whatsoever. You were the one that said Gardiner wouldn't make an impact with the Avs, I never said such thing about O'Reilly.

I do agree that his problem is with management and not the team or Colorado. However there lies the problem, as avs management has had history of bad blood with O'Reilly's agency. From all reports and really from sounds of things, trading him is all that is left.

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02-21-2013, 07:10 PM
  #422
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Originally Posted by Pierre Gotye View Post
Sure. That's why Rielly was just named WHL player of the week...it was a fluke. And why Garinder was second on Leafs D scoring while playing primarily as a 2nd pairing defenseman.

Rielly is projected as a top pairing defenseman, and Gardiner played most of last year as a 2nd pairing defenseman, while coming in 2nd in Leafs D scoring.



Yeah, and most fantasy minds will tell you that Dragons and Unicorns are real too.
You realize the Avs have 2 WHL defenseman of the YEAR in their system right? I would say that doesn't really mean much. BTW many Leafs proposals have those 2 said Defenseman as throw ins to trade as if they have no value at all.

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02-21-2013, 07:17 PM
  #423
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
There is no chance Leafs give up Rielly for O'Reilly. It's unbelievable how underrated Rielly has become in this thread. This guy has bonafide #1 Norris caliber potential. You don't just trade that away for a glorified #2 C. Would Boston have made this move last season by trading away Dougie Hamilton? And mind you, Rielly was drafted even higher than Hamilton and has only raised his stock since.
Oh god. Remember how everyone did (does?) this for Hamilton? It's not cute. Stop.

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02-21-2013, 07:22 PM
  #424
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You realize the Avs have 2 WHL defenseman of the YEAR in their system right? I would say that doesn't really mean much. BTW many Leafs proposals have those 2 said Defenseman as throw ins to trade as if they have no value at all.
If you're going to downplay Rielly, don't bring him up in the trade thread. Obviously you don't think much of him so don't ask for him. Might as well leave Rielly with the ones who believe in him the most.

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02-21-2013, 08:18 PM
  #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantSakicAsMyGM View Post
A very key word bolded.

In 2007, Thomas Hickey was drafted 4th overall, ahead of Alzner, Shattenkirk, Eller... and a 2nd round pick named PK Subban.

In 2004, Cam Barker was taken 3rd overall. Would you rather have him, or the 91st overall pick that year, Alex Edler? Or 262nd pick Mark Streit?

I'm not saying Rielly is not a great prospect. I'm saying he's still a prospect. And for every highly touted prospect that makes it big, there is another one that doesn't live up to expectations.
Like most Avalanche fans participating in this discussion, you are grasping at straws.

Everybody, even those who claim a prospect is a "sure thing," will admit that there is a possibility of busting. That does not mean teams should rush to trade their prospects before they have an idea of what they have. No team wants to be the one who trades the next star before they reach their potential and Toronto is no different.

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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
I agree.
The problem is that you just took the only asset that would really intrigue the Avs in return for ROR from the Leafs off the table. Gardiner is too much of a questionmark
and Kadri/Kessel won't be traded while being in the hunt for the playoffs.
So I fully agree. Avs are not getting Rielly.
Leafs are hopefully not getting ROR.
End of story.
And RoR isn't?

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