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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

Toronto-Colorado (yes o'reilly)

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Old
02-21-2013, 08:23 PM
  #426
Muffin
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
If you're going to downplay Rielly, don't bring him up in the trade thread. Obviously you don't think much of him so don't ask for him. Might as well leave Rielly with the ones who believe in him the most.
I think most Avs fans would rather have NHL ready Defenseman like Kulikov. Leafs fan don't want to give Gardiner or Rielly, who else of value do they have? Kessel? JVR? Outside of those pieces no one is worth much on the Leafs team, you're not getting O'Reilly for Bozak and a 2nd.

BTW it's actually Leafs fans who keep making proposals for O'Reilly, most Avs fans don't even want to trade with Toronto, because other teams have way better pieces to give. Why does this thread exist in the first place? There's a dedicated O'Reilly trade/offer sheet thread in this section.


Last edited by Muffin: 02-21-2013 at 08:29 PM.
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Old
02-21-2013, 08:24 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Like most Avalanche fans participating in this discussion, you are grasping at straws.

Everybody, even those who claim a prospect is a "sure thing," will admit that there is a possibility of busting. That does not mean teams should rush to trade their prospects before they have an idea of what they have. No team wants to be the one who trades the next star before they reach their potential and Toronto is no different.



And RoR isn't?
3 good years > 1. I think most people who talk about how much potential Gardiner has don't realize O'Reilly is actually younger than Gardiner.

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02-21-2013, 09:07 PM
  #428
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I have the Avs solution. Sign ROR for what he is worth if you feel that highly about him. Trade Stasny and his 6mill+ contract and move on in life. If you think he is first line material than put him there and put Duschene as your second line guy or on the wing on the first line. Address your back end with Stasny. For the record, I don't want him either.

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02-21-2013, 09:12 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
I think most Avs fans would rather have NHL ready Defenseman like Kulikov. Leafs fan don't want to give Gardiner or Rielly, who else of value do they have? Kessel? JVR? Outside of those pieces no one is worth much on the Leafs team, you're not getting O'Reilly for Bozak and a 2nd.

BTW it's actually Leafs fans who keep making proposals for O'Reilly, most Avs fans don't even want to trade with Toronto, because other teams have way better pieces to give. Why does this thread exist in the first place? There's a dedicated O'Reilly trade/offer sheet thread in this section.
I for the record don't want him. I do believe I said there would be a fit with the Islanders who could use a second line guy to compliment Tavares. Not sure they would spend the money but they sure have the assets.

If you Edm people think ROR is that great why don't you ship them Yakupov? I mean he's still a prospect right? Apparently Leafs have nothing on their roster, farm team or prospects that would entice anyone, how come as great as the prospect pool and young talent Edm has you have still drafted first over all three years straight and still currently reside 13th in the west? I know....you guys know talent.

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02-21-2013, 10:58 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
I for the record don't want him. I do believe I said there would be a fit with the Islanders who could use a second line guy to compliment Tavares. Not sure they would spend the money but they sure have the assets.

If you Edm people think ROR is that great why don't you ship them Yakupov? I mean he's still a prospect right? Apparently Leafs have nothing on their roster, farm team or prospects that would entice anyone, how come as great as the prospect pool and young talent Edm has you have still drafted first over all three years straight and still currently reside 13th in the west? I know....you guys know talent.
You realize the poster you quoted is an Avalanche fan right? Anyways please convince the rest of your board of your opinion so we can stop this madness. The only pieces that would interest Colorado from Toronto are: Kessel, Rielly, JVR and Gardiner.

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02-21-2013, 11:27 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Gigantor The Goalie View Post
You realize the poster you quoted is an Avalanche fan right? Anyways please convince the rest of your board of your opinion so we can stop this madness. The only pieces that would interest Colorado from Toronto are: Kessel, Rielly, JVR and Gardiner.
No need to repeat. Those are off the table. So no deal.

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02-21-2013, 11:35 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
No need to repeat. Those are off the table. So no deal.
Wonderful...looks like by not agreeing on a deal....we agreed on a deal.


Tell the rest of the Leaf fanbase now this and were all done

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02-21-2013, 11:39 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
3 good years > 1. I think most people who talk about how much potential Gardiner has don't realize O'Reilly is actually younger than Gardiner.
You consider 26 points a "good" year? I understand he was young, I understand he was good on the other end of the rink, but you got to be kidding me. What return is a 26 point forward ever going to get?

If, when, Ryan O'Reilly is traded, the team that will be sending assets to Colorado will be paying for the 55-point RoR with the potential for more, not the 26-point RoR. Therefore, and I really do not see how this is even debatable, RoR has had 1 good year. No different than Jake Gardiner in that regard.

Oh, and the age difference? Gardiner is a mere 5 months older.

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02-21-2013, 11:45 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
You consider 26 points a "good" year? I understand he was young, I understand he was good on the other end of the rink, but you got to be kidding me. What return is a 26 point forward ever going to get?

If, when, Ryan O'Reilly is traded, the team that will be sending assets to Colorado will be paying for the 55-point RoR with the potential for more, not the 26-point RoR. Therefore, and I really do not see how this is even debatable, RoR has had 1 good year. No different than Jake Gardiner in that regard.

Oh, and the age difference? Gardiner is a mere 5 months older.
Ah look...another fan judging O'Reilly off of points.



Tell me, how is making the NHL as an 18 year old, leading your team in PK time as a rookie, being great defensively, and putting up 26 points playing with offensive stalwarts Tucker and McLeod not a good season? There is so much more to ROR than points.



Luckily NHL teams have scouts who actually watch games, not go to the stats page and look at points and decide what is a good season and what is not based off that. Teams trading for ROR are trading for his defense just as much as his offense.

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02-21-2013, 11:52 PM
  #435
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Am I really the only Avs fan that'd be happy with getting Gardiner from the Leafs?

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02-22-2013, 12:39 AM
  #436
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Originally Posted by NothingLikeAnEJ View Post
Am I really the only Avs fan that'd be happy with getting Gardiner from the Leafs?
Yeah probably.
It is not that Gards does not have any upside. But if he does not come with a significant +, we will lose that trade the day it is made.

Gardiner is less likely to develop into a good #2 dman in comparison to ROR and his potential to be a #1b C. And ROR is way more proven and younger....

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02-22-2013, 12:48 AM
  #437
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
Yeah probably.
It is not that Gards does not have any upside. But if he does not come with a significant +, we will lose that trade the day it is made.

Gardiner is less likely to develop into a good #2 dman in comparison to ROR and his potential to be a #1b C. And ROR is way more proven and younger....
How?

If anything its the opposite.

ROR never scored PPG in junior, not did he prove himself to be much of a scorer until this past season.

Gardiner has always been that offensive defencemen that was projected to be top-4 with the possibilty of being a #2 or 3. RORs last season was much more of a surprise than any of Gardiners success at this point.

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02-22-2013, 01:41 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Wonderful...looks like by not agreeing on a deal....we agreed on a deal.


Tell the rest of the Leaf fanbase now this and were all done
Sorry, I don't want to read all the in between pages. What happened to the original offer being agreed to on the front page? Bozak, Liles, Percy, 2nd was agreed as fair deal by several people. Were they all being sarcastic?

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02-22-2013, 01:44 AM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Sergei Berezin View Post
How?

If anything its the opposite.

ROR never scored PPG in junior, not did he prove himself to be much of a scorer until this past season.

Gardiner has always been that offensive defencemen that was projected to be top-4 with the possibilty of being a #2 or 3. RORs last season was much more of a surprise than any of Gardiners success at this point.
If you think RoR's last season was a surprise you obviously don't watch him and just read scouting reports. In the second year it became quite obvious he was capable of putting 50+ capable seasons.

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02-22-2013, 01:54 AM
  #440
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Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
If you think RoR's last season was a surprise you obviously don't watch him and just read scouting reports. In the second year it became quite obvious he was capable of putting 50+ capable seasons.


As an amateur enthusiast you look down on professional scouting reports? I don't know whether I should ask for your credentials or just laugh...lol

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02-22-2013, 01:55 AM
  #441
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Originally Posted by BallHockeyLegend View Post
Sorry, I don't want to read all the in between pages. What happened to the original offer being agreed to on the front page? Bozak, Liles, Percy, 2nd was agreed as fair deal by several people. Were they all being sarcastic?
Clearly

In what way do you think that offer gets you a young stud like O'Reilly? A pending UFA, an aging defensemen (who the avs already traded), an average prospect, and a 2nd. Let us offer you Mitchell, O'Byrne, Smith, and a 2nd for Gardiner (this package isn't as good, but ok), you like?

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02-22-2013, 01:56 AM
  #442
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Originally Posted by BallHockeyLegend View Post


As an amateur enthusiast you look down on professional scouting reports? I don't know whether I should ask for your credentials or just laugh...lol
So you're saying I should base my opinion of O'Reilly from a scouting report from 3 years ago?


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02-22-2013, 01:59 AM
  #443
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Originally Posted by Rockies94 View Post
Clearly

In what way do you think that offer gets you a young stud like O'Reilly? A pending UFA, an aging defensemen (who the avs already traded), an average prospect, and a 2nd. Let us offer you Mitchell, O'Byrne, Smith, and a 2nd for Gardiner (this package isn't as good, but ok), you like?
I'm not saying it's fair value, not even pretending to know what fair value is. Just wondering what changed between first and last page. That's all. I assume different posters with different opinions.


Quote:
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So you're saying I should base my opinion of O'Reilly from a scouting report from 3 years ago?
You just said scouting reports, now they're three years old. Makes your statement less ridiculous.

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02-22-2013, 02:10 AM
  #444
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Originally Posted by BallHockeyLegend View Post
I'm not saying it's fair value, not even pretending to know what fair value is. Just wondering what changed between first and last page. That's all. I assume different posters with different opinions.




You just said scouting reports, now they're three years old. Makes your statement less ridiculous.
Find me a recent scouting report then? How is it ridiculous, scouting reports are made for prospects that are publicly available. The only other 'scouting report' are made by actual teams to evaluate a player, which aren't made public. Welp, I guess I can add another insane Leaf fan with no logic to the ignore list.

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02-22-2013, 05:15 AM
  #445
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Originally Posted by BallHockeyLegend View Post
Sorry, I don't want to read all the in between pages. What happened to the original offer being agreed to on the front page? Bozak, Liles, Percy, 2nd was agreed as fair deal by several people. Were they all being sarcastic?



no no no .................. maybe ok yes

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02-22-2013, 10:05 AM
  #446
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Originally Posted by Sergei Berezin View Post
How?

If anything its the opposite.

ROR never scored PPG in junior, not did he prove himself to be much of a scorer until this past season.

Gardiner has always been that offensive defencemen that was projected to be top-4 with the possibilty of being a #2 or 3. RORs last season was much more of a surprise than any of Gardiners success at this point.
ROR was OHL Penalty Killer of the Year in his last year in junior, while scoring 66 points in 68 games. So, technically he was only a 0.97 PPG player. 52 points in 61 games the year before (0.85 PPG as a 16/17 year old).

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02-22-2013, 10:20 AM
  #447
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Why don't you guys just give it a rest. You think any GM really cares what any of you think.

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02-22-2013, 10:31 AM
  #448
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
Why don't you guys just give it a rest. You think any GM really cares what any of you think.
Oh no, you mean that my posts on an internet message board specifically meant for discussing trade proposals and player values aren't being read by every GM in the league?


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02-22-2013, 10:43 AM
  #449
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Oh no, you mean that my posts on an internet message board specifically meant for discussing trade proposals and player values aren't being read by every GM in the league?

lol.

I think he is a very good player than you have two very proud fan bases. I think ROR is a hell of a player, is he a first line player? Tough to say, throwing a lot at him. My guess is he would need a few more years at the 2 spot to develop some more. Remember, if some of you are old enough. Mats Sundin was the #2 behind Sakic and he was a first overall pic. When he was traded to Tor he was our second line centre behind Gilmour, there were a number of years on there where he needed time to grow into those skates. Other than over the top talent like Crosby there a very few guys like Sakic and Tavares that walk into a leading 1C role at age 18. Takes a long time. I think ROR would be better suited at the 2 spot and continue to work on his game. I think he would be gold behind Tavares.

I honestly really like Gardiner, I think he is going to be a hell of a d-man. I see him playing a long time for the Leafs and being someone we look back at and say what a player he was. Nonis is just keeping him in the AHL to get sharp and we have too many d-men and he makes the most sense to spend a little more time there and play huge minutes until bodies are moved.

I actually hate what you guys are going through since you found a gem in the second round and no comp will ever seem like enough. If it was me I would be trying to mend the fences but I really don't like the way the management team has handled players in the last few years.

My BS rant for the day, actually my second.

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02-22-2013, 11:27 AM
  #450
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
lol.

I think he is a very good player than you have two very proud fan bases. I think ROR is a hell of a player, is he a first line player? Tough to say, throwing a lot at him. My guess is he would need a few more years at the 2 spot to develop some more. Remember, if some of you are old enough. Mats Sundin was the #2 behind Sakic and he was a first overall pic. When he was traded to Tor he was our second line centre behind Gilmour, there were a number of years on there where he needed time to grow into those skates. Other than over the top talent like Crosby there a very few guys like Sakic and Tavares that walk into a leading 1C role at age 18. Takes a long time. I think ROR would be better suited at the 2 spot and continue to work on his game. I think he would be gold behind Tavares.

I honestly really like Gardiner, I think he is going to be a hell of a d-man. I see him playing a long time for the Leafs and being someone we look back at and say what a player he was. Nonis is just keeping him in the AHL to get sharp and we have too many d-men and he makes the most sense to spend a little more time there and play huge minutes until bodies are moved.

I actually hate what you guys are going through since you found a gem in the second round and no comp will ever seem like enough. If it was me I would be trying to mend the fences but I really don't like the way the management team has handled players in the last few years.

My BS rant for the day, actually my second.
I agree, especially with the bolded part. Look at the last few years.

Fleischmann - acquired in a trade, has a health scare, but is able to continue his NHL career, the Avs let him go without an offer. Signs with Florida (Avs East) and is doing well.

Mueller - acquired in a trade, gets a concussion, just when he looks to be able to continue his NHL career, the Avs let him go without an offer. Follows Fleischmann to Florida.

Craig Anderson - looks like the G of the future a few years ago. Avs make him a lowball contract offer, he gets disgruntled and they trade him for Brian Elliott.

Elliott plays like crap in front of the struggling Avs team, doesn't get a qualifying offer, goes to the Blues where he wins the Jennings, Crozier and sets the NHL record for SV%.

Ian LaPerriere - After 5 years with the team (including lockout year) and becoming a fan favorite, the Avs give him a lowball "take it or leave it" offer. He leaves it and signs with Philly.

I won't even go farther back for Drury and Tanguay. O'Reilly is just the last in a long line of contract negotiation blunders for Avs management. I'd like to believe they can work something out, but I have a feeling that it would require O'Reilly to do all the compromising. So, I've resigned myself to hoping they get the best possible return for him. And I don't think Gardiner+ is the best offer Sherman is going to get.

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