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GMs to discuss size of goalie equipment

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Old
02-21-2013, 09:23 AM
  #176
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It's just a matter of time.

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02-21-2013, 11:16 AM
  #177
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Will there eventually be size restrictions on goalies, or they'll have to play within some size-handcap rule like jockeys?

The bigger you are, the less padding you'll be allowed to wear; the smaller you are, the more padding is permitted ??

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02-21-2013, 11:25 AM
  #178
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Should just increase the height of the net like 2-3 inches so all the ones that went off the crossbar would have been a goal. Or increase the height like 6 inches, so that you penalize butterfly goalies. Maybe it will bring back stand up goaltending.

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02-21-2013, 12:31 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
It doesnt sell because goalies wont buy it. They want the BIGGEST equipment allowed so they can go into the butterfly and take up as much net as possible. Its a JOKE.
Just to clarify, it is NOT the size of the equipment that allows a goalie to butterfly, it's the basic change in pad design since the 70s and the addition of the knee cradle pads ( this is what I know them as ). IMO the knee cradle pads are the number one change to goalie pads that allow for anyone of any skill to achieve the butterfly. Some pads come with one knee cradle pad , some come with two, three, or more. These internal pads protect you knees ( so you don't smash your knees into the ice ) but more importantly, they allow you to raise you knees higher off the ice so your legs don't have to be as horizontal to the ice. Hard to describe in words, but basically the thicker the knee cradle pad is, the easier it is to butterfly.

The butterfly is allowed to happen because of the technical design of the the goal pad, not because of its size. Everything from the knee cradle, to the leg cradle size, to having a squared off inside gusset, to the way you tie up the toe lace, and how loose you do up your straps , square sides and face, ALL this affects the ability to butterfly. Goalies from years ago didn't butterfly because the equipment design didn't allow them to.

You can shorten the pads or narrow the pads, but as long as the design stays the same, goalies are going to keep using the butterfly save.

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02-21-2013, 12:37 PM
  #180
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Every hundred years of the NHL they should make a small increase in net size.

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02-21-2013, 12:50 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Every hundred years of the NHL they should make a small increase in net size.
Or knock 1/8th inch off the circumference of the puck.

On a quasi-unrelated note, my goalie coach loved to use mini pucks during portions of our training sessions. Wowsa. Makes gameday seem like a casual game of beach volleyball on a sunny afternoon.


Last edited by Crease: 02-21-2013 at 12:56 PM.
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02-21-2013, 12:55 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Or knock 1/8th inch off the circumference of the puck.
Paint the puck white?

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02-21-2013, 01:04 PM
  #183
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We have the technology to go to smaller equipment and still maintain safety.

Carey Price is my favourite goalie these days, but the man just lets pucks hit him instead of having to rely on athletics a lot of the time.

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02-21-2013, 01:25 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Plante View Post
We have the technology to go to smaller equipment and still maintain safety.

Carey Price is my favourite goalie these days, but the man just lets pucks hit him instead of having to rely on athletics a lot of the time.
It's not quite so simple. Carey Price really is an anomaly, it's not so much about "letting pucks hit him" as much as always being in position. Carey Price's positioning is absolutely top notch best of the best. Positioning for a goalie is as much a skill as athleticism is, and Price is really just a cut above most other goalies. We see Rinne making more acrobatic saves, and his skill set is more devoted to athleticism, that's how he does it. Price does it though positional play, both take talent, and both are skills. Of course, shrinking the gear would make Price have to add more acrobatic saves to his game.

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02-21-2013, 01:31 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Trimmed down to WHAT? Instead of 500% bigger they 'trimmed it down ' to 467% bigger?

What a bunch of bull crap.

I have been watching hockey since 1977, so I would say I DO have a good opinion on this. The game we have now moves way faster and accomplishes far LESS .

what they call a 'great save' is now a routine save because the goalies wear space suits and go into the butterfly to take up the net.

The object of the game is score more goals than your opponent. Not win 1-0 and board up the net.

For every 2-1 game that is 'exciting' with glorious chances , there are another 19 which are boring trap fests with no real honest scoring chances and some fluke bounce ended up in the net. Yipee .

The people defending this ridiculous goalie equipment obviously arent paying $30,000 a year for season tickets to watch this crap. Racing up and down the ice, accomplishing dry crap most of the time.

And finally when you do actually have a chance you get to face this BLIMP who has boarded up the net. Great job.

No wonder they are looking at overhauling the goalie equipment.

No 'trimming' . Overhaul it all.


Glad you have been a fan of hockey since the '70's, but how often have you stepped into a crease and faced vulcanized rubber? Goalie equipment has progressed since the '70s along with player equipment.

I was merely making points to show that, in my opinion, the NHL is creating a farce of hockey; starting with the lockout. An overhaul of goalie equipment is not needed. Trimming of chest protectors could be included. If the NHL is so crazy about goalies saving pucks, why not revert back to old rules and make it illegal for them to drop to their knees? The game as involved so much since the inclusion of game film. Systems are so precise and technical that they take away a lot of scoring as well. Anyone who has coached a game would know that.

Wider rinks, larger nets, are some other avenues that could be pursued, but honestly, I love hockey now and find it entertaining. Stop tinkering with goalie equipment.

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02-21-2013, 01:46 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanka View Post
but how often have you stepped into a crease and faced vulcanized rubber?
How often have you been driven face first into the boards? Hockey is a rough game for everyone who plays it, not just goalies. Just because you play goal doesn't mean you're entitled to special treatment and status.

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02-21-2013, 02:11 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
How often have you been driven face first into the boards? Hockey is a rough game for everyone who plays it, not just goalies. Just because you play goal doesn't mean you're entitled to special treatment and status.
First off, goalies have been mistreated and abused by the league they play in for the vast majority of the NHL's existence, so if anybody deserves special treatment and status it's them, but this isn't a history lesson.

What I want is for the NHL to put things in priority. Before the NHL looks at shrinking goal equipment just so an extra handful of goals get scored league wide over an entire season, maybe they should investigate ways of trying to keep the players they have, on the ice.

So since we are talking equipment, let's go back to cloth only shoulder pads and elbow pads. The current line of equipment the players wear on their elbows and shoulders are designed to hurt another player, not to offer any protection above cloth equipment. Heavy suspensions for head hunting, etc. Keep the players they have from constant injuries should be the #1 priority.

And if the NHL thinks that adding a few goals to the scores is going to draw more fans to the game, they are mistaken. Just as many fans complained when scores were 7-6 every game back in the 80s as people complain when scores are 2-1 now.

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02-21-2013, 02:19 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
First off, goalies have been mistreated and abused by the league they play in for the vast majority of the NHL's existence, so if anybody deserves special treatment and status it's them, but this isn't a history lesson.
Oh please with the persecution complex.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
And if the NHL thinks that adding a few goals to the scores is going to draw more fans to the game, they are mistaken. Just as many fans complained when scores were 7-6 every game back in the 80s as people complain when scores are 2-1 now.
Guess what? I wasn't one of them. I enjoyed the hell out of hockey in the '80s. There's always going to be people who want soccer on ice.....not me.

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02-21-2013, 02:20 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
So since we are talking equipment, let's go back to cloth only shoulder pads and elbow pads. The current line of equipment the players wear on their elbows and shoulders are designed to hurt another player, not to offer any protection above cloth equipment.
I agree with this, too. It would be fair to say that the body armour worn by skaters also contributes to the modern expression of system play.

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02-21-2013, 02:37 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
First off, goalies have been mistreated and abused by the league they play in for the vast majority of the NHL's existence, so if anybody deserves special treatment and status it's them, but this isn't a history lesson...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
I agree with this, too. It would be fair to say that the body armour worn by skaters also contributes to the modern expression of system play.
I second this. These are the points I was trying to make. Why are the goalies always singled out for the lack of goals?

And SaintPatrick33, I have had my face driven into the boards many times. And also had my face meet fists in numerous hockey fights. What exactly is your point? I am not stating that goalies deserve special treatment, but individuals who are playing the game should be the ones consulted on the equipment modifications.

Also SaintPatrick33, I find it quite ironic that you are complaining about goalies when your avatar name is one of the goalies that pioneered butterfly saves and larger equipment.

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02-21-2013, 02:42 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Kanka View Post
Also SaintPatrick33, I find it quite ironic that you are complaining about goalies when your avatar name is one of the goalies that pioneered butterfly saves and larger equipment.
I'm sure MLB batters would love to be consulted on whether they can cork their bats or not too.

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02-21-2013, 02:45 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanka View Post
how often have you stepped into a crease and faced vulcanized rubber?


This is an argument without merit. As someone who played goal for twenty-odd years, I cringe whenever I see a statement like this from a fellow goaltender. Why should a paying spectator have to step into the crease before being able to express an opinion on the product being purchased? It's elitist and does not positively represent the brotherhood.

Cutting goalie equipment size (within safe levels) may not appreciably increase GPP, but it certainly will require more explicitly visible effort from goaltenders. Sure, it takes a whole lot of intelligence, anticipation and skill to get into position in the first place. But goaltending should be more than that - it should include reflexes. And right now, there's a distinct imbalance in the what many people see from the position. Reducing pad size will make the position more balanced and increase how entertaining it is to watch the game overall (for those currently critical of it, of course).

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02-21-2013, 02:59 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post


It's just a matter of time.
Heh. I've always wondered why the indoor lacrosse goalies have even bigger pads than hockey goalies. They look like they are wearing sumo suits.

Meanwhile outdoor lacrosse goalies don't seem to wear much of anything.

Indoor lacrosse is fun to watch -- except for the goalies who just look stupid.

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02-21-2013, 03:08 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by scotchex View Post
Heh. I've always wondered why the indoor lacrosse goalies have even bigger pads than hockey goalies. They look like they are wearing sumo suits.

Meanwhile outdoor lacrosse goalies don't seem to wear much of anything.

Indoor lacrosse is fun to watch -- except for the goalies who just look stupid.
Is that a real sport though?

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02-21-2013, 03:57 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
So since we are talking equipment, let's go back to cloth only shoulder pads and elbow pads. The current line of equipment the players wear on their elbows and shoulders are designed to hurt another player, not to offer any protection above cloth equipment. Heavy suspensions for head hunting, etc. Keep the players they have from constant injuries should be the #1 priority.
I upgraded to the big elbow pads (they have hard material inside as they are stiff, but not the outside cups) because of bone chips and cuts from contact with the ice. THe elbows are a vulnerable body part. Elbowing is never allowed, so why not remove it with increased discipline. That only punishes players that hit illegally and not everyone.

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02-21-2013, 03:58 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by scotchex View Post
Heh. I've always wondered why the indoor lacrosse goalies have even bigger pads than hockey goalies. They look like they are wearing sumo suits.

Meanwhile outdoor lacrosse goalies don't seem to wear much of anything.

Indoor lacrosse is fun to watch -- except for the goalies who just look stupid.
HEY!!! Until you have faced a vulcanized leather (or whatever they are made of) ball don't criticize the size of the goalie's chest protector!!

Are they vulcanized??? I just made that **** up.

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02-21-2013, 04:31 PM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Just to clarify, it is NOT the size of the equipment that allows a goalie to butterfly, it's the basic change in pad design since the 70s and the addition of the knee cradle pads ( this is what I know them as ). IMO the knee cradle pads are the number one change to goalie pads that allow for anyone of any skill to achieve the butterfly. Some pads come with one knee cradle pad , some come with two, three, or more. These internal pads protect you knees ( so you don't smash your knees into the ice ) but more importantly, they allow you to raise you knees higher off the ice so your legs don't have to be as horizontal to the ice. Hard to describe in words, but basically the thicker the knee cradle pad is, the easier it is to butterfly.

The butterfly is allowed to happen because of the technical design of the the goal pad, not because of its size. Everything from the knee cradle, to the leg cradle size, to having a squared off inside gusset, to the way you tie up the toe lace, and how loose you do up your straps , square sides and face, ALL this affects the ability to butterfly. Goalies from years ago didn't butterfly because the equipment design didn't allow them to.

You can shorten the pads or narrow the pads, but as long as the design stays the same, goalies are going to keep using the butterfly save.
Knee cradle pads may enable goaltenders to use the butterfly technique; however, the size of the pads also contributes to the effectiveness of the butterfly technique. Reducing pad size, ceteris paribus, will merely reduce the effectiveness of the butterfly technique.

I think pad sizes should be reduced.

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02-21-2013, 04:40 PM
  #198
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Team defence is predicated on specific goalie styles, and goalie styles are in turn predicated on goalie equipment. Revert to Glen Hall era equipment, and nobody is playing butterfly style, which in turn makes the "trap and collapse" system play becomes counter-productive.

But they aren't going to revert equipment like that, so I think they'd be better off changing goal size instead. Add a foot in each direction, that should do it.
Expanding the net sounds gimmicky and problematic.

Could you imagine all over North America, indoor and outdoor rinks everywhere, all of the sudden in dire need of new hockey nets?

Besides, I think if it was down to the goalies they would opt for smaller pads over a larger net anyways. They dont want to have to re-learn their position.

With any luck or logic this would also mean that goalie pads would become more economical.

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02-21-2013, 04:42 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
What I want is for the NHL to put things in priority. Before the NHL looks at shrinking goal equipment just so an extra handful of goals get scored league wide over an entire season, maybe they should investigate ways of trying to keep the players they have, on the ice.

So since we are talking equipment, let's go back to cloth only shoulder pads and elbow pads. The current line of equipment the players wear on their elbows and shoulders are designed to hurt another player, not to offer any protection above cloth equipment. Heavy suspensions for head hunting, etc. Keep the players they have from constant injuries should be the #1 priority.
Great idea. I think the vast majority of hockey fans would support both.

- Skaters' pads should have soft exteriors as long as it does not appreciably decrease player safety.
- Goaltenders' pads should be reduced in size as long as it does not appreciably decrease player safety.

There's a few other things the NHL could address, too:

- No-touch icing
- Make the trap illegal
- 10 min. game misconduct for fighting

I mean, I grew up in the dead puck era and so I don't think I'll ever stop watching hockey. But at the same time, I think these changes can make the game safer and more entertaining.

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02-21-2013, 05:00 PM
  #200
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I think goalies look like robots when they wear giant pads and robots are cool.

My entire argument stems from that, and as a result I am against lowering pad size.

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