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Ryan O'Reilly : Money-Money-Money-Money...Mo-ney!! Thread #6

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02-23-2013, 02:07 PM
  #576
Freudian
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O'Reillys agent can even contact teams and try to get an offer sheet done.

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02-23-2013, 02:08 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
I agree with this. Nonetheless, it's a player's egotism vs. an organization's megalomania. Everyone loses.
no it's one person getting bad advice and letting people who should shut up swell up their head and cost them a pay day.
this isn't anywhere near on the Avs. this is all on ROR listening to people who have no business in the matter.

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02-23-2013, 02:10 PM
  #578
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I've said it before and I'll say it again - I don't think an unsigned RoR asking for $4-5 million a year has much value. I hope I'm wrong, but in the end I'm praying that this trade ends up not being worth it for the Avs, the Avs simply stand pat, and RoR comes to his damn senses.

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Old
02-23-2013, 02:11 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
I wonder if the Avs are even considering letting other teams talk to O'Reilly before swinging a deal. If not they're only hurting his potential value since the team getting him would probably want some sort of guarantee that he won't hold out on them either.

Reportedly the Avs have not publicly declared a price for O'Reilly. According to Friedman they've just told anyone who calls to make an offer.

Those two things put together give me the slimmest of hopes that cooler heads will prevail and a deal can be reached...but not bloody likely.

The AVs have no control whatsoever of other teams talking to Radar or not. He is an RFA and can talk to any team that wants to talk to him. So no matter what the team trading for him would probably have a deal in place or nearly in place, or at the very least have a good idea of what the Avs want. They will know what to expect when the trade goes through.

Wanted to comment on it before, but I like the Avs reported method that they seem to be using. Get an idea of interest from other teams. This will give them flexibility of what they will trade for. Giving vague answers to what they want in the trade will help in creating a bidding war because teams will be more willing to trade their best assets instead of just offering what the Avs needs are at what I think would be a lower value. They aren't going to trade purely based on needs. They will take the best offer available, or at least should in my mind. I think we will survive this whole ordeal.

On whether ROR should be traded or not, I suggest we all quit whining that we don't want him to leave. He won't play for us with almost certainty so to us he is a useless asset to the AVs except as a trade piece. The only value he has is the value that other teams place on him and the bidding war that will hopefully ensue. I would also rather he sign and return but I don't see that happening. I just want good value and in return for him at this point.

Man I suck at organizing my thoughts. Hope my wordings are coherent enough for you folks.

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02-23-2013, 02:15 PM
  #580
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Probably more of a bidding skirmish than a bidding war.

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02-23-2013, 02:17 PM
  #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
Considering '09 redrafts usually have O'Reilly around #4-5 in that ultra deep draft, I think a #3-5 pick straight up is pretty close. Draft charts should give a rough idea from there for lesser picks.
Thanks. Found one to review. I'm much more familiar with NFL draft/player values, and learning this as I go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avsboy View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again - I don't think an unsigned RoR asking for $4-5 million a year has much value. I hope I'm wrong, but in the end I'm praying that this trade ends up not being worth it for the Avs, the Avs simply stand pat, and RoR comes to his damn senses.
Agree with all of this, but still worry if it takes too long, once the KHL can start bringing guys back he may head there for the same/more money than he'd get from the Avs.

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02-23-2013, 02:20 PM
  #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aslanrh View Post
Thanks. Found one to review. I'm much more familiar with NFL draft/player values, and learning this as I go.



Agree with all of this, but still worry if it takes too long, once the KHL can start bringing guys back he may head there for the same/more money than he'd get from the Avs.
The NHL and KHL have their little gentleman's agreement about poaching players. While ROR isn't signed, he is still RFA, so his rights belong to the Avs. Sure, the KHL can ignore that, but it would be against the agreement they made.

The difference between this year and next year, is that this year the NHL was on lockout, giving the KHL freedom to sign whomever they wanted, without it going against that agreement.

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02-23-2013, 02:29 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by CalderKing21 View Post
no it's one person getting bad advice and letting people who should shut up swell up their head and cost them a pay day.
this isn't anywhere near on the Avs. this is all on ROR listening to people who have no business in the matter.
Oh it is most certainly somewhere near on the Avs. Their track record when it comes to negotiations yields this. O'Reilly isn't the first player to get stiffed by this arrogant, petty, and vindictive organization, and he won't be the last.

#1. Yes, it's clear people are influencing O'Reilly in these matters, but nevertheless, he's a grown man who can make grown-up decisions. Ultimately he's the one most at fault here apart from the Avs, not his father, and not his agent.

#2. If you honestly think the Avs have done nothing wrong here, you're fooling yourself. Even the Habs sat down and actually talked Subban and his agent down face-to-face. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Avs have even attempted this.

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02-23-2013, 02:37 PM
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
The NHL and KHL have their little gentleman's agreement about poaching players. While ROR isn't signed, he is still RFA, so his rights belong to the Avs. Sure, the KHL can ignore that, but it would be against the agreement they made.

The difference between this year and next year, is that this year the NHL was on lockout, giving the KHL freedom to sign whomever they wanted, without it going against that agreement.
Ok thanks. Makes it a bit better. I was under the impression that the player could choose to go to the KHL and then the Avs would simply hold his rights and the status of RFA, years of service, etc would freeze until he returned to NHL.

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Old
02-23-2013, 02:41 PM
  #585
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Originally Posted by Aslanrh View Post
Ok thanks. Makes it a bit better. I was under the impression that the player could choose to go to the KHL and then the Avs would simply hold his rights and the status of RFA, years of service, etc would freeze until he returned to NHL.
There is nothing preventing a KHL team from signing O'Reilly next year if he doesn't have a NHL contract.

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02-23-2013, 02:48 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
There is nothing preventing a KHL team from signing O'Reilly next year if he doesn't have a NHL contract.
If he were to sign with the khl for one season, wouldn't that delay his ufa status for one year?

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02-23-2013, 02:58 PM
  #587
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Originally Posted by tucker3434 View Post
If he were to sign with the khl for one season, wouldn't that delay his ufa status for one year?
Not at that stage. He'd be an UFA at the age of 27 no matter what if he 'sits out' this year.

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02-23-2013, 03:06 PM
  #588
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Not at that stage. He'd be an UFA at the age of 27 no matter what if he 'sits out' this year.
Would he not be eligible at 25 if he played in the nhl the entire time?

Edit: meaning if he sits this entire year he becomes a ufa at 26?

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02-23-2013, 03:15 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by tucker3434 View Post
Would he not be eligible at 25 if he played in the nhl the entire time?

Edit: meaning if he sits this entire year he becomes a ufa at 26?
If he sits out this year, he'd be a UFA the summer of 2017. Since he's born early 1991, he'd be 26. I was mistaken.

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02-23-2013, 03:35 PM
  #590
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
No, not necessarily. Right now our 2 top lines are:

Landeskog - Stastny - Jones
McGinn - Duchene - Parenteau

So yeah, those have been two decent scoring lines, but only one truly productive winger in the whole bunch. The others are more 2-way types (Landy/McPing) who can certainly score but not in bunches. And Jones, well, as a friend of mine once put it, dude's streakier than a kindergartner's undies.

The Avs don't have a legit scoring threat on the wings apart from Parenteau, and while he's been a great pickup thus far, he's not enough. We don't have a true scoring winger prospect anywhere in the system (Joey Hishon is the closest thing to that we got, and his NHL prospect grow dimmer by the day) or on the roster.

I could see something like this:

Landeskog - Stastny - Little
Jones - Duchene - Parenteau
McGinn - Mitchell - Hejduk
McLeod - Olver - Kobasew

Jones has been successful on the left side in the past, it could work again. PAP and Dutchy have been so successful together I don't want to break them up, so that leaves Stazz. Maybe Little at the LW spot...? Who knows? Duchene had amazing chemistry with Tomas Fleischmann, mainly because both could play wing or center, and freely switched up to confuse the opposition. I could see those two clicking really well in the same fashion.

Still think the Avs need to find a better long-term solution at that 3rd line C spot than Mitchell--he should be our 4th line center, even as well as he's played. Sgarbossa...?
Really? You would seriously switch McGinn out for Jones? Jones has been successful on the left side next Olver & Stastny, and didn't work next to Duchene. It was tried a long time ago...

Besides, McGinn is way faster and the far superior player... Hell no

I agree with everything else you say though, Bozak is what I'm thinking for the long term solution as the #3C.

The lines below would be awesome, but at the same time unless we get Trouba in the deal where do we find our partner for EJ?

Landeskog - Stastny - Little

McGinn - Duchene - Parenteau

UFA - Bozak - Downie

McLeod - Mitchell - Kobasew/Bordy

Olver

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02-23-2013, 03:51 PM
  #591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Really? You would seriously switch McGinn out for Jones? Jones has been successful on the left side next Olver & Stastny, and didn't work next to Duchene. It was tried a long time ago...

Besides, McGinn is way faster and the far superior player... Hell no

I agree with everything else you say though, Bozak is what I'm thinking for the long term solution as the #3C.

The lines below would be awesome, but at the same time unless we get Trouba in the deal where do we find our partner for EJ?

Landeskog - Stastny - Little

McGinn - Duchene - Parenteau

UFA - Bozak - Downie

McLeod - Mitchell - Kobasew/Bordy

Olver
It's not about who's been better, it's about what role those players play. Jones is not a 3rd line player--but McGinn has been successful there in the past and could be again. It's about making that 3rd line better and more balance in the lines IMO--it's not a "demotion" of McGinn by any means.

McGinn WAY faster? Um...no, not WAY faster. Better, harder-working, sure, but faster!?

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02-23-2013, 03:51 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Really? You would seriously switch McGinn out for Jones? Jones has been successful on the left side next Olver & Stastny, and didn't work next to Duchene. It was tried a long time ago...

Besides, McGinn is way faster and the far superior player... Hell no

I agree with everything else you say though, Bozak is what I'm thinking for the long term solution as the #3C.

The lines below would be awesome, but at the same time unless we get Trouba in the deal where do we find our partner for EJ?

Landeskog - Stastny - Little

McGinn - Duchene - Parenteau

UFA - Bozak - Downie

McLeod - Mitchell - Kobasew/Bordy

Olver
I think if McGinn can do better with his first touch on some of the passes from Dutch and PAP, the McGinn-Dutch-PAP line would be crazy good. I see quite a few times though when he juggles the puck a bit and can't get the shot off.
Not sure there is a better option coming in FA though and I'm not at all unhappy leaving McGinn in the top 6. A winger with size but with better hands would be nice though and a McGinn and Downie with a Bozak or similar Center would be a great 3rd line. Scoring ability for sure, but also that would probably become a gritty-energy line. Fits the 3 line team the Avs wanted this year.

If we don't trade for a partner for EJ, a run at a guy like Smid this off season may be our best option. Not as good as some of the trade possibilities, but better than the O's, Zanon or Hunny

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02-23-2013, 03:53 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Oh it is most certainly somewhere near on the Avs. Their track record when it comes to negotiations yields this. O'Reilly isn't the first player to get stiffed by this arrogant, petty, and vindictive organization, and he won't be the last.

#1. Yes, it's clear people are influencing O'Reilly in these matters, but nevertheless, he's a grown man who can make grown-up decisions. Ultimately he's the one most at fault here apart from the Avs, not his father, and not his agent.

#2. If you honestly think the Avs have done nothing wrong here, you're fooling yourself. Even the Habs sat down and actually talked Subban and his agent down face-to-face. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Avs have even attempted this.
how many players up for new contracts had issues with the Avs during negotiations this time around? 1, who held out and didn't have a smooth and easy signing period? 1, who is the last RFA not signed and still holding out? ROR.

Subban and ROR have the same agency representing them.
Subban settled for much less than he initially demanded, the Avs were supposedly somewhat close but wouldn't budge past the bridge number unless it was a long term deal.
if you think this isn't solely on O'Reilly you're dreaming.
it's been made clear to him what his value is to the club right now, he's the one trying to bleed blood from a stone with no leverage.

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02-23-2013, 03:55 PM
  #594
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Not at that stage. He'd be an UFA at the age of 27 no matter what if he 'sits out' this year.
how? he needs NHL service time for that does he not? he wouldn't accrue NHL service time without playing about half a season in the NHL.

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02-23-2013, 03:57 PM
  #595
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how? he needs NHL service time for that does he not? he wouldn't accrue NHL service time without playing about half a season in the NHL.
It's either 7 years of NHL play or the age of 27.

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02-23-2013, 03:59 PM
  #596
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Our old friend Dario has posted this on Twitter.

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Dario Ronzone ‏@DarioinDenver
“@DennisTFP: Press row scouts in LA for east division teams: CAR PHI WPG NYR” this is important.
Thought I'd post this here seeing as how we need more fuel to keep this going, lol

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02-23-2013, 04:01 PM
  #597
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Our old friend Dario has posted this on Twitter.



Thought I'd post this here seeing as how we need more fuel to keep this going, lol
DarioInDenver led me to HFBoards.

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02-23-2013, 04:10 PM
  #598
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Ive been thinking more and more that this happens at the draft. A team would have to be pretty desperate to do this in a shortened year. This potential trade is an investment for both sides. Not that any trade is done hastily but these kinds of deals that could change the makeup of an organization for years.

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02-23-2013, 04:13 PM
  #599
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Ive been thinking more and more that this happens at the draft. A team would have to be pretty desperate to do this in a shortened year. This potential trade is an investment for both sides. Not that any trade is done hastily but these kinds of deals that could change the makeup of an organization for years.
Also, sitting out another four months will probably soften up O'Reilly so he won't make any unreasonable salary demands that would make it harder to trade him.

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02-23-2013, 04:14 PM
  #600
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Ive been thinking more and more that this happens at the draft. A team would have to be pretty desperate to do this in a shortened year. This potential trade is an investment for both sides. Not that any trade is done hastily but these kinds of deals that could change the makeup of an organization for years.
Agree. The # of games played in this shortened season will play a big role. What team wants to give him a year of service for 20-25 games especially with the rumored assets they would have to give up? Outside of a contender who thinks ROR is the key to the cup, I think ROR's value is limited until summer.

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