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Ryan O'Reilly : Money-Money-Money-Money...Mo-ney!! Thread #6

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Old
02-23-2013, 06:55 PM
  #651
Freudian
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I think in general there is a pedagogic problem with HF that most teams don't engage in hockey trades involving valuable assets. So fans have learned to be fiercely protective of any young asset of good value because their teams don't trade all that much.

Avs have traded Stewart, Shattenkirk, a first that could have been anywhere from a lottery pick to 20th overall in previous years. Perhaps we have gotten used to the idea of having to give something of value to get something of value.

I don't think HF posters lists of assets that are off the table is all that relevant since it certainly differs from that of the GMs. Especially when a very good young player would be coming the other way.

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Old
02-23-2013, 06:56 PM
  #652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Guys like Trouba and Scheifele I'd probably look at the same way as you do Siemens, Barrie and Elliott, there's just to much developmental potential to consider trading them for anything short of a massive overpayment.
The difference for us is that we have a terrible defense. If we didn't, I'd be completely willing to discuss using one of them as trade chips. We have a strong goaltending farm right now that I will also want to use as trade chips in a couple years.

But our defense is trash and Barrie/Elliott are playing on our team and should be given every chance to try to at least make a difference, Barrie has done just that so far. Siemens will be given a look next season and is left handed, the only guy in our system that just might solve our defensive needs.

Unless we're getting Enstrom or Bogosian in the deal, moving one of those three doesn't help us. And if we're getting Trouba it is more of a lateral move including one of them (Trouba will take longer to get into the NHL than the immediate impact they will have anyways).

So if we're acquiring Little, and you're not offering one of our needs... where is there a deal to be made?

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Old
02-23-2013, 06:58 PM
  #653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
The difference for us is that we have a terrible defense. If we didn't, I'd be completely willing to discuss using one of them as trade chips. We have a strong goaltending farm right now that I will also want to use as trade chips in a couple years.

But our defense is trash and Barrie/Elliott are playing on our team and should be given every chance to try to at least make a difference, Barrie has done just that so far. Siemens will be given a look next season and is left handed, the only guy in our system that just might solve our defensive needs.

Unless we're getting Enstrom or Bogosian in the deal, moving one of those three doesn't help us. And if we're getting Trouba it is more of a lateral move including one of them (Trouba will take longer to get into the NHL than the immediate impact they will have anyways).

So if we're acquiring Little, and you're not offering one of our needs... where is there a deal to be made?
Little + Winnipeg 1st?

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Old
02-23-2013, 07:06 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
Little + Winnipeg 1st?
I think I do that. The draft will be deep, and that pick will most likely be between 5-10.

I think Little would help this team, but I think I would rather want Wheeler.

Would Wheeler and 1st be considered overpayment from the jets?

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Old
02-23-2013, 07:10 PM
  #655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Elliott was recalled as soon as possible when the trade O'Reilly talks heated up.

Avs might be showcasing him. But with how Avs defense has looked, it's far from certain. They might just have wanted a different flavor of below average.
it was for power play reasons. none of our defensemen had a goal before Barrie and he and Elliot are the only guys on D who are really good at setting up people on the PP.

coming into the game against LA we were 3 for the last 9 on the PP.
that's a big improvement due it part to Barrie and Elliot giving us a new look and being able to move the puck.

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Old
02-23-2013, 07:12 PM
  #656
Hank Chinaski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
The difference for us is that we have a terrible defense. If we didn't, I'd be completely willing to discuss using one of them as trade chips. We have a strong goaltending farm right now that I will also want to use as trade chips in a couple years.

But our defense is trash and Barrie/Elliott are playing on our team and should be given every chance to try to at least make a difference, Barrie has done just that so far. Siemens will be given a look next season and is left handed, the only guy in our system that just might solve our defensive needs.

Unless we're getting Enstrom or Bogosian in the deal, moving one of those three doesn't help us. And if we're getting Trouba it is more of a lateral move including one of them (Trouba will take longer to get into the NHL than the immediate impact they will have anyways).

So if we're acquiring Little, and you're not offering one of our needs... where is there a deal to be made?
And this is probably where I exit stage left. I (like most fans) probably overrate the value of our players, but Little and Bogosian/Enstrom is a very steep price to pay IMO, even for a great talent like O'Reilly. Not saying it's the wrong price in any way, just that it's not I deal that I'd personally be happy about Chevy making.

Anyway, enjoy your weekend Avs fans, and thanks for the friendly responses to this nosy visitor.

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Old
02-23-2013, 07:27 PM
  #657
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If we're dealing with Winnipeg I want a deal around bogosian. I'd like to have little, but bogosian would fill a much more immediate need.

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Old
02-23-2013, 07:32 PM
  #658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORLY View Post
I think I do that. The draft will be deep, and that pick will most likely be between 5-10.

I think Little would help this team, but I think I would rather want Wheeler.

Would Wheeler and 1st be considered overpayment from the jets?
I think the 1st round pick is an overpayment since our first round pick is almost certainly going to be a top 10 pick. If this trade is done then Avs get guy who had 64 points last season and is almost PPG this season in Wheeler PLUS a very high draft pick (very likely one of Drouin, McKinnon, Barkov, Lindholm, Jones, Nichushkin or Monahan). Any objective observer would term that as a massive overpayment. For comparison this would be very close in value to what Boston got for Phil Kessell (itself a bad trade for Toronto) and O'Reilly while talented is no Phil Kessel.

Little + 1st while not as bad as Wheeler + 1st is still an overpayment. That would essentially amount to what Pittsburgh got for Jordan Stall.(infact better since this draft is much deeper than last year's) Except that Stall is a franchise player and has proven more at the NHL level

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Old
02-23-2013, 07:33 PM
  #659
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I really want factor back, but I have resigned to him being traded. I just hope greg from accounting gets back a decent return.

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Old
02-23-2013, 07:44 PM
  #660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsFan815 View Post
I think the 1st round pick is an overpayment since our first round pick is almost certainly going to be a top 10 pick. If this trade is done then Avs get guy who had 64 points last season and is almost PPG this season in Wheeler PLUS a very high draft pick (very likely one of Drouin, McKinnon, Barkov, Lindholm, Jones, Nichushkin or Monahan). Any objective observer would term that as a massive overpayment. For comparison this would be very close in value to what Boston got for Phil Kessell (itself a bad trade for Toronto) and O'Reilly while talented is no Phil Kessel.

Little + 1st while not as bad as Wheeler + 1st is still an overpayment. That would essentially amount to what Pittsburgh got for Jordan Stall.(infact better since this draft is much deeper than last year's) Except that Stall is a franchise player and has proven more at the NHL level
yes but this is a shortened season where one move can put you in a much better position to contend. supply and demand determines the market and ROR is the best player on the market which means the price is sky high.
doesn't mean we'll get everything we want for him but it does mean that more than likely he will only be moved for a severe overpayment.

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Old
02-23-2013, 07:52 PM
  #661
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It's hard seeing a first round pick being the target return for Avs at this stage in their rebuild, unless it's a very high pick and the trade is at deadline (ie, Avs get to pick a NHL ready guy).

I could see something like

O'Reilly, Elliott, 2nd/3rd

for

Burmistrov, Trouba

I guess some from each side will yell "that's overpayment" because all four players have so much unrealized potential, some of them being pretty much mostly potential at this stage.

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Old
02-23-2013, 08:09 PM
  #662
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Just cant see us trading Trouba. Little or Burmi I can see tho

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Old
02-23-2013, 08:26 PM
  #663
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I'm so over this ****... (When it comes to fan trade proposals) The return looks so freaking MEH compared to the player we are giving up.

I love how no one wants to give up a core player for a core player coming back.

Little is interesting but is he a core player? No.. Trouba is extremely unproven but omfg he has potential so we can't part with him. The team getting O'Reilly is getting a core player who is already special at the NHL level with his defensive ability, along with STILL having more potential.

Blah, depressing...

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Old
02-23-2013, 08:27 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
Are there any youngish LHD with top 4 potential?
No. Hunwick(27), O'Byrne(28), O'Brien (29), and Zanon (32). None of which are top 4, but could stopgap until your guys get healthy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ORLY View Post
I think I do that. The draft will be deep, and that pick will most likely be between 5-10.

I think Little would help this team, but I think I would rather want Wheeler.

Would Wheeler and 1st be considered overpayment from the jets?
I think the first + Little for ROR + one of the 4 guys above would be acceptable.

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Old
02-23-2013, 08:34 PM
  #665
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If the teams were run by HF, no trades would ever actually happen because no one would ever agree on anything or be willing to give up anything of any real value.

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Old
02-23-2013, 08:36 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
I'm so over this ****... (When it comes to fan trade proposals) The return looks so freaking MEH compared to the player we are giving up.

I love how no one wants to give up a core player for a core player coming back.

Little is interesting but is he a core player? No.. Trouba is extremely unproven but omfg he has potential so we can't part with him. The team getting O'Reilly is getting a core player who is already special at the NHL level with his defensive ability, along with STILL having more potential.

Blah, depressing...
Well, let's be fair, Little has indeed been a core player for the Thrasherjets. He's been their most consistent scorer and go-to guy ever since Kovalchuk left. So I don't think any proposals involving him are insulting at all.

We just have to accept the fact that pretty much any trade for O'Reilly will have the Avs on the losing side.

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Old
02-23-2013, 08:55 PM
  #667
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Well, let's be fair, Little has indeed been a core player for the Thrasherjets. He's been their most consistent scorer and go-to guy ever since Kovalchuk left. So I don't think any proposals involving him are insulting at all.

We just have to accept the fact that pretty much any trade for O'Reilly will have the Avs on the losing side.
Little hasn't scored over 50 points in three years, and is 25 years old. What is he on pace for this year? 28 points, which is 48 points over an 82 game schedule.

He might have been a core player or potential core player in 2008-2009, but he hasn't improved on his production at all. Nor has he been able to reproduce at the same rate either.

And yeah... I agree that we are probably going to be on the losing end. I don't like the idea of splitting up O'Reilly's value between Little + whatever they part with.

I'd much rather have Yandle or even Kulikov with a small plus. Yeah MAYBE the deal works out in our favor if we get Little + Trouba/1st but the likeliness of that happening? Even then it's still a big fN MAYBE...

WPG fans don't need to take this as a hit on Little, hes just not that exciting considering what/who we are giving up. Personally I think Kane should be the one coming back for O'Reilly, but I don't even want to get into that argument. Just imagine everything a WPG fan would say about not moving Kane in trade offers, we have said similar things about O'Reilly when asked before this began.

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02-23-2013, 08:58 PM
  #668
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I think a WPG deal just became less likely.

I for once don't want to see ROR get traded within the division...

And if the return really was mainly Little, I am not unhappy if we pass on it..

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Old
02-23-2013, 09:01 PM
  #669
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
I think a WPG deal just became less likely.

I for once don't want to see ROR get traded within the division...

And if the return really was mainly Little, I am not unhappy if we pass on it..
I really don't understand this fear of trading within your division. As long as your getting the best possible deal why the hell would you not make the trade? Who cares if he plays against you 1 or 2 more times than a team outside the divsion does, it's not like he's friggen Gretzky.

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02-23-2013, 09:04 PM
  #670
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
I'm so over this ****... (When it comes to fan trade proposals) The return looks so freaking MEH compared to the player we are giving up.

I love how no one wants to give up a core player for a core player coming back.

Little is interesting but is he a core player? No.. Trouba is extremely unproven but omfg he has potential so we can't part with him. The team getting O'Reilly is getting a core player who is already special at the NHL level with his defensive ability, along with STILL having more potential.

Blah, depressing...
Indeed. We're probably going to be so disappointed by what we get, that I'd rather just hold on to him and have him play out his RFA years in the KHL as a sort of middle finger.

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Old
02-23-2013, 09:05 PM
  #671
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I really don't understand this fear of trading within your division. As long as your getting the best possible deal why the hell would you not make the trade? Who cares if he plays against you 1 or 2 more times than a team outside the divsion does, it's not like he's friggen Gretzky.
It might be a distraction having to meet him six-eight times a year and especially if they have in-conference playoffs for two rounds.

I don't mind trying to get him out of conference, if that is possible. Obviously if someone in-conference is willing to pay significantly more, it's another matter.

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Old
02-23-2013, 09:06 PM
  #672
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I really don't understand this fear of trading within your division. As long as your getting the best possible deal why the hell would you not make the trade? Who cares if he plays against you 1 or 2 more times than a team outside the divsion does, it's not like he's friggen Gretzky.
Well I think the return will suck anyways.
Jets are not giving up Bogo or Trouba. Especially not if we have a hard on for Little.
And I really don't care for Little...

So if we lose that trade, I don't want to get reminded of it that often. And ROR is the kind of player that will feed off this and kill us down the stretch....

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Old
02-23-2013, 09:23 PM
  #673
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Rangers could really use ROR about now and in the future.

Sadly their fans and GM don't feel like producing a good deal (understandable due to their contract situation).

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Old
02-23-2013, 09:24 PM
  #674
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Well I think the return will suck anyways.
Jets are not giving up Bogo or Trouba. Especially not if we have a hard on for Little.
And I really don't care for Little...

So if we lose that trade, I don't want to get reminded of it that often. And ROR is the kind of player that will feed off this and kill us down the stretch....
I: CAR/CLB/NJ/NYI/NYR/PHI/PIT/WASH

II: BOS/BUF/DET/FLA/MON/OTT/TB/TOR

III: CHI/COL/DAL/MIN/NASH/STL/WIN

IV: ANA/CAL/EDM/LA/PHOE/SJ/VAN

(A article based on Elliotte Friedmen's tweets.) http://www.milehighhockey.com/2013/2...nment-proposal

Hey we can deal with EDM now for Sam Gagner + 2nd!! (Q the EDM proposals, and me barfing...) Realistically though, we can actually deal with Phoenix if that happens, which I feel is still our best trading partner.

I like that Conference for us, only team that we can't seem to beat ever is NSH.

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Old
02-23-2013, 09:28 PM
  #675
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From what I'm hearing about the Rangers game, MDZ may be less likely too. McD and Girardi hurt today.

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