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Ryan O'Reilly : Money-Money-Money-Money...Mo-ney!! Thread #6

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Old
02-24-2013, 05:30 PM
  #776
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Do you have anything that might confirm this by any chance?

Why would O'Reilly have given his contract demands to Winnipeg for the first time recently if that were the case? GM's would have asked as soon as the season started and he was a hold out, if not sooner like in the summer. Just to get an idea of whether they should try and trade for him. That would be the first thing they did.

Wait what?

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02-24-2013, 05:33 PM
  #777
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Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
I would think that ROR is Colorado's property, and their permission is needed to talk to him or his agent.
He's a free agent and teams are allowed to negotiate with the agent. Perhaps it's limited to offer sheets and not what kind of contract he would want after a trade, but who is going to know.

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02-24-2013, 05:37 PM
  #778
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
He's a free agent and teams are allowed to negotiate with the agent. Perhaps it's limited to offer sheets and not what kind of contract he would want after a trade, but who is going to know.
I think with offer sheets it is a lot less roomy than that. No negotiation, just shots in the dark.

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02-24-2013, 05:38 PM
  #779
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
He's a free agent and teams are allowed to negotiate with the agent. Perhaps it's limited to offer sheets and not what kind of contract he would want after a trade, but who is going to know.
Do you know this? Or are you assuming?

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02-24-2013, 05:40 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by Hennessy View Post
I think with offer sheets it is a lot less roomy than that. No negotiation, just shots in the dark.
That is my assumption as well.

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02-24-2013, 05:42 PM
  #781
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I don't think O'Reilly knows how well he has it in Colorado. Wpg media is probably the 2nd or 3rd worst after Toronto/Mtl. They'll turn on you if you don't live up to billing and he'd have the pressure of being their 1st notable trade acquisition.

However it's basically out of his hands imo. He's gonna have to sign wherever he gets traded, holding out a 2nd time won't be practically possible. So either he can re-sign with us where he knows and can play well or he can end up ruining his career depending on where he's moved.

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02-24-2013, 05:44 PM
  #782
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Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
Do you know this? Or are you assuming?
I've read that offer sheets are negotiated between a team and a RFA, but I haven't combed through the CBA to see what the exact rules are.

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02-24-2013, 05:45 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by Hennessy View Post
Two things: The Winnipeg stuff is pure conjecture.

GMs can't ask. They have to act.
If you consider TPS as conjecture. I don't see any reason not to believe what he's saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
Wait what?
Winnipeg were the first team to be given an idea of his potential contract demands according to TPS.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=601

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
He's a free agent and teams are allowed to negotiate with the agent. Perhaps it's limited to offer sheets and not what kind of contract he would want after a trade, but who is going to know.
Well that's basically what I said though. Sending an offer sheet is very different than speaking with his agent, and discussing numbers and specifics. One is a formal offer they can't renege on. The other is testing the waters with another team's player.

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02-24-2013, 05:52 PM
  #784
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
If you consider TPS as conjecture. I don't see any reason not to believe what he's saying.
Well, I don't see any reason to take him at face value insofar as his gossip is gospel. Which isn't me calling him a liar - far from it. I may be a cynic, but I think he's being honest. That said, I'm not just going to roll over on his word.

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02-24-2013, 05:55 PM
  #785
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Originally Posted by Hennessy View Post
Well, I don't see any reason to take him at face value insofar as his gossip is gospel. Which isn't me calling him a liar - far from it. I may be a cynic, but I think he's being honest. That said, I'm not just going to roll over on his word.
Well he could certainly be wrong, or making assumptions himself, but I think it's a situation where even though that's the case, it's much more likely any info he passes along is accurate. Therefore, I have no qualms taking it at face value. He's not gonna have a worse percentage in that area than any other hockey insider, including McKenzie so I don't give it much thought. If things turn out to be wrong, no big deal.

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02-24-2013, 06:01 PM
  #786
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
If you consider TPS as conjecture. I don't see any reason not to believe what he's saying.
Apart from him basically being just a dude on the internet telling you things? I don't mind though. You guys seem to enjoy him being an insider and he seems to enjoy it, so go crazy.

Not saying he might not be a childhood friend of Daniel Winnik. I have no way of knowing. It's possible he's provided solid proof of his links to Winnik/O'Reilly and others elsewhere and I've not seen it.

I do find it highly unlikely that the O'Reilly camp would update people on critical details of what is going on. Especially since pretty much every (real) hockey insider is in the dark here.

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02-24-2013, 06:07 PM
  #787
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Well he could certainly be wrong, or making assumptions himself, but I think it's a situation where even though that's the case, it's much more likely any info he passes along is accurate. Therefore, I have no qualms taking it at face value. He's not gonna have a worse percentage in that area than any other hockey insider, including McKenzie so I don't give it much thought. If things turn out to be wrong, no big deal.
I think that's where we differ. I don't go in much for that sort of thing, regardless of who's saying it. I can appreciate a guy with sources, but won't put much into what he's saying until I see hard news on it.

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02-24-2013, 06:08 PM
  #788
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Apart from him basically being just a dude on the internet telling you things? I don't mind though. You guys seem to enjoy him being an insider and he seems to enjoy it, so go crazy.

Not saying he might not be a childhood friend of Daniel Winnik. I have no way of knowing. It's possible he's provided solid proof of his links to Winnik/O'Reilly and others elsewhere and I've not seen it.

I do find it highly unlikely that the O'Reilly camp would update people on critical details of what is going on. Especially since pretty much every (real) hockey insider is in the dark here.
Eh, I guess. What reason would you have not to put any stock into it, apart from it possibly conflicting with your info on RFA's?

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02-24-2013, 06:12 PM
  #789
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Originally Posted by Hennessy View Post
I think that's where we differ. I don't go in much for that sort of thing, regardless of who's saying it. I can appreciate a guy with sources, but won't put much into what he's saying until I see hard news on it.
So you don't believe anything that's written by anyone? I'm as big a skeptic about things as anyone, but that's just being a skeptic for the sake of being a skeptic. Might as well not join a forum, or read the newspaper, or ever go on the internet because the evidence isn't sitting right in front of you. You have to weigh the likelihood of truth on most things in life.

I appreciate the hell out of his info, and have never seen any reason to think it's made up, or inaccurate. Especially with the options we have in coverage of the Avs.

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02-24-2013, 06:15 PM
  #790
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Offer Sheets and Restricted Free Agents

The Offer Sheet is a Contract
An offer sheet is a contract negotiated between an NHL team and a restricted free agent on another team.

The offer sheet includes all the terms of a standard player contract, including length, salary, bonuses, etc.

A player who has signed a qualifying offer or is going to salary arbitration with his original team cannot sign an offer sheet.
Quote:
Restricted (Group 2) NHL free agents can discuss new contracts with other teams beginning on the day after that season's entry draft, which is also the deadline for a team to make a qualifying offer. Discussions must cease if a player accepts a contract from his own team or is confirmed to go into arbitration with his team, be it player- or team-filed.
This isn't the exact wording but it's the most readable. Restricted or not, he's still a free agent; he's free to talk to and sign with what ever team he wants. Only benefit we get by owning his rights is a chance to match, and compensation if we decline. *If* Winnipeg knows his contract demands then they've either talked to him directly or Sherman told them what he's asking for.

That said, Little as a potential centerpiece really doesn't excite me. I've got nothing against the guy, but do we really need another 40-50 point complementary winger?

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02-24-2013, 06:17 PM
  #791
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Eh, I guess. What reason would you have not to put any stock into it, apart from it possibly conflicting with your info on RFA's?
I don't even know if he knows O'Reilly at all. Even if I would assume he got acquainted to O'Reilly during the two years Winnik was in Denver, why would I believe O'Reilly and his agent updates him on this process? How do you know he knows O'Reilly at all? Has he provided pictures in another thread or is it just based on him saying so?

Anyway, it's not all that interesting a discussion. I'm not saying you can't believe in what TPS says. If you feel he's proven to you that he's got inside knowledge, go ahead. I remain more skeptical than you do.

Once again, I'm not saying he's not a personal friend of Ryan O'Reilly. He might be. I'm just saying I haven't seen a single shred of evidence of it.

This is an awkward discussion though. Even though there is a massive difference in saying that you don't know if someone is telling the truth and calling someone a liar, some will interpret what I am saying as being the latter. I am not and don't see much productive that can come of such a discussion. I'm not interested in a flame war here.

I just wanted to clarify why I and some others don't view his info in the same light as you do.


Last edited by Freudian: 02-24-2013 at 06:27 PM.
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02-24-2013, 06:19 PM
  #792
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Thanks for posting that detrude. All teams should know his asking price before negotiations then.

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02-24-2013, 06:29 PM
  #793
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Originally Posted by detrude View Post
This isn't the exact wording but it's the most readable. Restricted or not, he's still a free agent; he's free to talk to and sign with what ever team he wants. Only benefit we get by owning his rights is a chance to match, and compensation if we decline. *If* Winnipeg knows his contract demands then they've either talked to him directly or Sherman told them what he's asking for.

That said, Little as a potential centerpiece really doesn't excite me. I've got nothing against the guy, but do we really need another 40-50 point complementary winger?
Interesting. Do you happen to have a link to the actual wording in the CBA?

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02-24-2013, 06:31 PM
  #794
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
So you don't believe anything that's written by anyone? I'm as big a skeptic about things as anyone, but that's just being a skeptic for the sake of being a skeptic. Might as well not join a forum, or read the newspaper, or ever go on the internet because the evidence isn't sitting right in front of you. You have to weigh the likelihood of truth on most things in life.

I appreciate the hell out of his info, and have never seen any reason to think it's made up, or inaccurate. Especially with the options we have in coverage of the Avs.
First off, you're putting words in my mouth. Second, yes, I am wary of what I read on the internet from strangers.

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02-24-2013, 06:48 PM
  #795
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First off, you're putting words in my mouth. Second, yes, I am wary of what I read on the internet from strangers.
Wary is fine, but if you don't believe someone like TPS, than you're not going to believe anyone in his situation.

People don't lie about things with vague details, and withhold info, or say they don't know the answer to certain things when asked. That's not how people lie. People lie with grandiose stories, and wild accusations. He's been around here a while, and I doubt he had some grand masterplan to join and then start a bunch of mild mannered rumors five years later.

So he's either lying, or has bad information. It can't be both. If he's not lying, then he's getting his info straight from the source like he says. From player's he grew up with and was close to. Why would they be giving him bad info?

Being over skeptical about his info just isn't logical IMO, which is the purpose of being a skeptic in the first place.

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02-24-2013, 06:49 PM
  #796
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I just don't see what incentive he has to make it up. He isn't getting blog hits for advertisement... He's not exactly running around the site basking in the "glory" of knowing an NHL player. I mean unless he gets kicks out of fooling people on relatively insignificant matters, then where's the motivation?

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02-24-2013, 06:52 PM
  #797
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Wary is fine, but if you don't believe someone like TPS, than you're not going to believe anyone in his situation.

People don't lie about things with vague details, and withhold info, or say they don't know the answer to certain things when asked. That's not how people lie. People lie with grandiose stories, and wild accusations. He's been around here a while, and I doubt he had some grand masterplan to join and then start a bunch of mild mannered rumors five years later.

So he's either lying, or has bad information. It can't be both. If he's not lying, then he's getting his info straight from the source like he says. From player's he grew up with and was close to. Why would they be giving him bad info?

Being over skeptical about his info just isn't logical IMO, which is the purpose of being a skeptic in the first place.
Again, I think TPS is probably being honest. But ...


Last edited by Frenchy: 02-24-2013 at 07:54 PM.
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02-24-2013, 06:54 PM
  #798
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I just don't see what incentive he has to make it up. He isn't getting blog hits for advertisement... He's not exactly running around the site basking in the "glory" of knowing an NHL player. I mean unless he gets kicks out of fooling people on relatively insignificant matters, then where's the motivation?
Did you really ask why someone would ever lie on the internet?

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02-24-2013, 07:00 PM
  #799
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Again, I think TPS is probably being honest. But ....
No actually I'm not. I'm just pointing out why your skepticism is unwarranted and misguided, and you don't want to admit to that. You are just incorrect if you think people develop a master plan to make up mild rumors about something five years in advance, with no incentive, and using vague details, and withholding info for personal reasons. You don't really understand people's motivations, and the way they lie.

Not to mention the fact that you think he's telling the truth. So again, which is it? He's lying and I'm naive, or he's telling the truth because of the reasons I said?


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02-24-2013, 07:03 PM
  #800
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
I just don't see what incentive he has to make it up. He isn't getting blog hits for advertisement... He's not exactly running around the site basking in the "glory" of knowing an NHL player. I mean unless he gets kicks out of fooling people on relatively insignificant matters, then where's the motivation?
Hey man, people get off on some very oddly specific things. *shrug*

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