The appeal for me in adding Alfie is that it gives the team a guy to rally around to get his name on the cup. Same principal for Iginla. Alfie could be our Bourque situation. Traded for one last real shot at a cup.
Well I think the latter two are very much on the table, but fall into the category of worth more to the team that has them. Knight's injury riddled season did nothing for his value, and goalie prospects don't tend to headline trades.
I'm also fine with a Spooer or Khoklachev deal, just not for a rental. There's no one rental that they could bring back that absolutely positively puts them over the top for a cup, and at that point, I'll take multiple shots at the cup (since our core is mostly young) over 1 chance where some goalie stands on his head for 7 games and we get nothing out of it.
I don't think so. Prospects are suspects until they prove you wrong. The " off the table " thing should be used in a very limited way. A player like Hamilton deserved an " off the table thing ". Each time you have the chance to acquire a legit top 9 player, you really have to take a long and hard look at it. If you want to build a SC winner, you need to find a balance between youth and experience...
I don't think so. Prospects are suspects until they prove you wrong. The " off the table " thing should be used in a very limited way. A player like Hamilton deserved an " off the table thing ". Each time you have the chance to acquire a legit top 9 player, you really have to take a long and hard look at it. If you want to build a SC winner, you need to find a balance between youth and experience...
You wouldn't say off the table in respects to Daniel Alfredsson though?
Not "off the table" if acquiring a good, young defenseman... Or something of the sort. But for Alfie? I don't have much of an issue using that terminology.
You make it sound as though it's a choice between a Cup and Ryan Spooner. If the Bruins don't win the Cup with Alfredsson here, then we get neither.
That's the risk you take.
Or maybe you never needed Alfredsson to win in the first place. Then you've lost your top forward prospect for no reason.
To me, you do it if it's going to give you someone for your team that you could possibly have around for multiple cracks. But for a dozen games or so? I don't see the value in that.
I understand the risks.
Spooner is not a guarantee, and neither is a cup if we trade him.
My point is i like the non guarantee of the Cup more than the non guarantee of the player.. Does that make sense?
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You wouldn't say off the table in respects to Daniel Alfredsson though?
Not "off the table" if acquiring a good, young defenseman... Or something of the sort. But for Alfie? I don't have much of an issue using that terminology.
I don't see a step yet in any of their development that says they are ready to be given up on.
Look at the prospects Chiarelli has traded, all of them have seen the writing on the wall before they were shipped out. All of them had their doubts, issues, or were given up on.
Lashoff
Karsums
Kalus
Hamil
Coulborne
Sobotka
I think the next logical prospect on that list is Caron. He had his opportunity handed to him 3 seasons in a row and failed each time. Looking at other teams, Angelo Esposito was also traded for a rental.. kind of along the same lines as those above.
I don't see a step yet in any of their development that says they are ready to be given up on.
Look at the prospects Chiarelli has traded, all of them have seen the writing on the wall before they were shipped out. All of them had their doubts, issues, or were given up on.
Lashoff
Karsums
Kalus
Hamil
Coulborne
Sobotka
I think the next logical prospect on that list is Caron. He had his opportunity handed to him 3 seasons in a row and failed each time. Looking at other teams, Angelo Esposito was also traded for a rental.. kind of along the same lines as those above.
No I don't think that's true, it's not IMO, it's fact.
Career year, no upside, seems to only want to play in 2 cities to begin with, wrong side of 30.
Got dollars, term, and a NTC. Not a fan at all.
I agree with almost all of your posts but can't agree with you guys on this one. It might have been a career year, but it isn't like it was far from the norm. It certainly isn't fact that it was a bad contract.
His career average over 82 games is 14G, 32Pts and last year was only 1 point over his best. He also almost always plays 82 games only missing 9 games since 2005. And his value lies far beyond the points. He is a monster on the PK even this year where he has "sucked".
He is paid like a low end 2nd liner, which is what he is. He never gets PP time and usually hasn't played with offensive players. When he does his scoring goes up. By the time his contract runs out there will be many more that are paid higher pushing him down to being paid like a 3rd liner, which will probably be appropriate when he is 35.
On this team he is a 3rd liner and our 8th best forward. He is paid as our 8th best forward and will be 9th next year, assuming we sign Horton or someone to replace him at over 3 million. He has also been a good playoff performer. He has played at a 47 pt/82 game pace over his last 3 playoffs, 41 Pt pace over his last 4, and 35 Pt pace over his career. A 41 Pt pace in 2 playoffs with Boston. All above career regular season averages.
A NTC doesn't mean he can't go anywhere. Do I think he would accept a trade mid-season to Columbus? No, but I'm positive there are a number of teams that he would approve a trade to especially in the offseason. I also think there are plenty of contenders that will want him and give up a solid asset for him at the salary & term of his contract.
Chia has been very good on contracts that many think were overpayments at the time. If this doesn't work out and he won't accept a trade, they have an out with the amnesty buyout in each of the next 2 offseasons which wouldn't affect the cap. My guess is that it works out either on the ice for us or with a trade to someone else.
The Bruins had a team last year that could have repeated if the G M had of been able to fit right players into help.But with cap etc its tough,This year he has that coin so he best be adding that help.Teams this good in postition to add a player or two with shot to go deep are not everyday things..Remember,2011 was first one in pretty well 40 years,I want another and this team as is is a little thin.for long run.
Last edited by 22Brad Park: 02-20-2013 at 11:13 AM.
Spooner is not a guarantee, and neither is a cup if we trade him.
My point is i like the non guarantee of the Cup more than the non guarantee of the player.. Does that make sense?
I get what you're getting at. And for the most part you and I will see this argument from the same angle. There is a large, reluctant faction of people on these boards who HATE seeing change - even if it's for the better.
To use analogy. I like STUFF more than I like money. But I'm not going to overspend on certain STUFF if I don't need it and it leaves me lacking money.
To me, Spooner is an overpayment for Daniel Alfredsson at this stage in his career. I don't believe that he's a necessary piece to divvy in order to acquire. And even if that happens to be the case, I'm sure there's better value elsewhere... And I'd shop around.
Now: We can revisit this after the trade deadline when Chiarelli does nothing and we sit on cap space waiting for an early post-season exit - and you and I will be ranting in perfect harmony.
I get what you're getting at. And for the most part you and I will see this argument from the same angle. There is a large, reluctant faction of people on these boards who HATE seeing change - even if it's for the better.
To use analogy. I like STUFF more than I like money. But I'm not going to overspend on certain STUFF if I don't need it and it leaves me lacking money.
To me, Spooner is an overpayment for Daniel Alfredsson at this stage in his career. I don't believe that he's a necessary piece to divvy in order to acquire. And even if that happens to be the case, I'm sure there's better value elsewhere... And I'd shop around.
Now: We can revisit this after the trade deadline when Chiarelli does nothing and we sit on cap space waiting for an early post-season exit - and you and I will be ranting in perfect harmony.
I trust Chia.He a smart cat.I hope he really wants another Cup.Bruins need help for legit deep run.He sits on that money i will trust its cause teams wanted to rob them of what they have in the system.I have to trust Chia.He brought that Cup.
I don't see a step yet in any of their development that says they are ready to be given up on.
Look at the prospects Chiarelli has traded, all of them have seen the writing on the wall before they were shipped out. All of them had their doubts, issues, or were given up on.
Lashoff
Karsums
Kalus
Hamil
Coulborne
Sobotka
I think the next logical prospect on that list is Caron. He had his opportunity handed to him 3 seasons in a row and failed each time. Looking at other teams, Angelo Esposito was also traded for a rental.. kind of along the same lines as those above.
Most of this is right except Caron. He is the next logical prospect to move, but he wasn't handed opportunities, it was only 2 seasons, and he didn't fail. He earned it in camp the 1st year, and only played 23 games. He wasn't in the lineup when he didn't stay consistent. He scored at a 25 Pt pace at age 19/20. Which Providence studs should have played over him? Hamill, Whitfield, glass Sauve, Arniel or Jumbo Joe #2?
Last year he was again our 13th forward and only played 48 games. He only played that many because of injuries to Horton and Peverley. He again scored at a 25Pt pace at age 20/21. He did well when placed with good players. In his limited AHL games he had the highest PPG of anyone that could be called up. Again, what Providence guys should have played? Your options were pretty much the same as the year before. Swap out a couple names but none were better options and/or were injured.
He may never play in the NHL again or he could have a solid career. The narrative that he was handed opportunities, or that he failed each time when he has never played in the NHL above the age of 21 is absolutely wrong. A 25 point/82 game pace from a solid two way player at that age is not failing.
Most of this is right except Caron. He is the next logical prospect to move, but he wasn't handed opportunities, it was only 2 seasons, and he didn't fail. He earned it in camp the 1st year, and only played 23 games. He wasn't in the lineup when he didn't stay consistent. He scored at a 25 Pt pace at age 19/20. Which Providence studs should have played over him? Hamill, Whitfield, glass Sauve, Arniel or Jumbo Joe #2?
Last year he was again our 13th forward and only played 48 games. He only played that many because of injuries to Horton and Peverley. He again scored at a 25Pt pace at age 20/21. He did well when placed with good players. In his limited AHL games he had the highest PPG of anyone that could be called up. Again, what Providence guys should have played? Your options were pretty much the same as the year before. Swap out a couple names but none were better options and/or were injured.
He may never play in the NHL again or he could have a solid career. The narrative that he was handed opportunities, or that he failed each time when he has never played in the NHL above the age of 21 is absolutely wrong. A 25 point/82 game pace from a solid two way player at that age is not failing.
Caron hasn't played poorly in the NHL. But he hasn't played especially WELL either and he's been worse in the AHL.
He's had a spot "to lose" in each of the last three seasons - and he's never made it a difficult decision to send down to the minors.
****. I think he's a good hockey player. I wish I could understand what's happening with him. He should have been the leader in Providence this season.
I'm actually surprised to see everyone on here offering this much for Alfredsson. Maybe i'm just a homer but no way i trade more than Caron +2nd. No Subban, no First.
It's a rental, i dont think chia would do a whole lot to acquire a rental. He's always been sort of a Safe GM rather than a risk taker.
What would happen if Chia traded Caron +Subban +1st (give or take one), and we got out in the first round... I would not be happy with him at all.
Edit: actually i wouldnt even trade Caron, id give Sauve only because he is just so injury prone, hes got the skills but whens the last time he played ONE season without getting seriously injured.
Ottawa has a very deep prospect group and why they should be considered for a guy like O'Reilly or anyone else that comes along. If I was them I'd ask for Spooner- he's right there; I believe you drive right by Spooner's house to the Ottawa rink....he could live at home and us Bruins fans would still get to see him alot even if its running the power play for someone else.
Not sure Chiarelli wants to see any of whatever prospects he considers strong chance for success in the NHL playing in his own division for a rental who may play as many regular seasons games as the guy he could give up seasons- yaaaaouch. Then again, you win the Cup, and its been almost two years since the Bruins last won it so I can see where he'd go all out to win again. Two years can be a long time.
I wouldn't do anything for Koko/Knight/Spooner/Subban but others I'd listen and evaluate. I'd be the first and loudest to crucify him on here if he traded a successful prospect for a rental and then didnt win the Cup.
Of course if he won I'd tip my cap but if he didnt
Pics and Caron and Subban
