Pretty harsh to say....but I'm done with Gionta. And like I keep saying, I predict that this will be pretty hard to handle for Therrien 'cause right now...Gionta would be on my 4th line. But tough 2 years to come especially at that amount.
I'm kind of at that point too...not that I think he can't contribute anymore. But he's a guy I wish who's contract was coming to an end after this year.
It's going to be a bit odd to have a captain next year as a pending UFA looking for a new deal when I don't think the team will be looking to bring him back.
Might be time to give Lou a call this summer to see if he'd like to take Gio back with 1yr left on his deal
Gionta shoots right which is a big plus for the PP, it allows for the cross crease one timers. Not that we've been doing it much but still. It was one of the reasons Metropolit got all that PP time when he was with us.
Gionta is at 0.5 ppg, not great but it's still fairly average for a top-6 player plus he's contributing in other ways (Leadership, Defensive play). For all the talk of him being useless and offence dying when he gets the puck his line is still productive so he can't be doing that bad. Unless his cap hit becomes a problem we should keep him.
I think he contributes to nothing. I guess he backcheck well but hopefully that's not the ingredient that makes you a second line guy. I guess that can give you leader license cause others take example of that.
I think he contributes to nothing. I guess he backcheck well but hopefully that's not the ingredient that makes you a second line guy. I guess that can give you leader license cause others take example of that.
If you seriously think he contributes to nothing, I have to ask you, what the heck do you do during hockey games? ...because you're obviously not watching the games.
I think too many HF posters are obsessed with stats, size and capgeek and don;t spend any time watching the game and what players are doing.
Guy oozes example - he's a more important piece to our team than we probably realize.
Therrien is saying as much, wonder if it's true. They were talking about it on the MSG broadcast last night, how important a healthy Gionta has been to the Habs good start.
If you seriously think he contributes to nothing, I have to ask you, what the heck do you do during hockey games? ...because you're obviously not watching the games.
I think too many HF posters are obsessed with stats, size and capgeek and don;t spend any time watching the game and what players are doing.
He backchecks and skate rapidly and he then shoot the puck very far from the goalie. He doesn't even have that much chemistry with Plekanec.
Might be time to reduce his PP time but unlike Cole at least he tries 100% every shift so you can't really put too much blame on his ineffectiveness offensively. He's getting older too, 34 years old, it isn't inconceivable he lost something past couple injury plagued seasons.
The PP is currently almost 100% reliant on the point, seems little is created by the forwards down low so PKers just pressure the point. Might be time to swap in some young blood in those offensive situations.
What is the obsession with whipping boys and "getting rid of player X" threads? We are in 1st in the conference less than a year from being 15th. A big part of that is the leadership on and off the ice of guys like Cole, Gionta, Gorges etc. With a lot of young players having those guys around is worth it's weight in gold.
I don't know for the other posters on this thread, but for me, it is not an obsession, and Gionta is certainly not my whipping boys.
I do think Gionta has value for the Habs right now. I don't think he plays that well, but I do think he's still somehow important.
All I'm saying is that considering the goal of building for the futur while staying competitive, trading Gionta could make a lot of sense. He would bring something interesting in a trade while not hurting the present that much. Eller is capable of doing what he's doing right now. And don't forget that the CH is the team that has the most money engaged for next year; freeing Gionta's salary has to be considered in that regard. Added to the byout of Kaberle, it would free money to sign an important player that Habs' prospect pool cannot provide.
Habs are winning right now? Fine. But we shouldn't get fooled by their success. There are still many holes in that lineup to be a serious cup contender. And every experienced GMs said that it is better to trade when things are going well that the opposite. Moreover, better trade Gionta one year too early than one year too late.
And I don't buy that leadership stuff. If Habs leadership relies only on Gionta, they're in trouble anyway. Others can fill the hole.
He's a warrior and leaves it all out on the ice every shift. He's declining, but can still play with the best of them.
Those questioning why he's captain make me sick.
I agree with you, and as the thread starter, I'm not questionning that at all.
I'm just suggesting a pure hockey move based on pure hockey arguments. I totally see why many don't agree with me, but it is certainly not to knock on Gionta. I respect the player.
I don't know for the other posters on this thread, but for me, it is not an obsession, and Gionta is certainly not my whipping boys.
I do think Gionta has value for the Habs right now. I don't think he plays that well, but I do think he's still somehow important.
All I'm saying is that considering the goal of building for the futur while staying competitive, trading Gionta could make a lot of sense. He would bring something interesting in a trade while not hurting the present that much. Eller is capable of doing what he's doing right now. And don't forget that the CH is the team that has the most money engaged for next year; freeing Gionta's salary has to be considered in that regard. Added to the byout of Kaberle, it would free money to sign an important player that Habs' prospect pool cannot provide.
Habs are winning right now? Fine. But we shouldn't get fooled by their success. There are still many holes in that lineup to be a serious cup contender. And every experienced GMs said that it is better to trade when things are going well that the opposite. Moreover, better trade Gionta one year too early than one year too late.
And I don't buy that leadership stuff. If Habs leadership relies only on Gionta, they're in trouble anyway. Others can fill the hole.
Your points are of course reasonable. And if we were to trade Gionta to
a contender, for a really good prospect or maybe 2nd rounder, we would
free up valuable cap space. That would be a good hockey trade.
But there some real "haters" on this thread. And I rarely use that term.
Don't understand the hate for Gionta. He's not scoring, but he is part of the reason why the team is having success. His defensive game is exceptional. Combined with Plekanec he's the reason why we are doing so well at shutting down opponents. Sure he's way overpaid for a defensive specialist, but he is still an integral part of the team defensive game. There would be a huge hole with him gone right now without an adequate replacement.
I expect to get attacked, but I stand by what I said. I have no problem with Gionta's game right now.
more or less agree with your assessment... except for the last part.
how can he be "way overpaid" and yet there not be a problem with is game right now?
He's paid to be a top-6, if not top-line, scoring winger who ALSO brings leadership & quality defensive play to the table.
That his offensive game is no longer up to par, imo is a big problem.
Certainly we shouldn't be giving him away for nothing, because as you nailed it, he is playing very well in the defensive match-up role that his line mostly operates in... but 5M$ for a smallish fwd whose best attribute is sound defensive play is not money well spent.
We can find players via trade or UFA that can fill that kind of role for far less.
MB should be quietly shopping him around, and if a suitable offer presents itself, pull the trigger.
In the meantime, it would be nice to see MT stop using him so heavily on the PP (Gionta leads the team in fwd pp time/game, amazingly) & get both Galch & Eller out there more often.
it will be interesting to see, were that to happen, how Gionta would handle it. If he's the quiet leader he's made out to be, then it shouldn't be an issue.
more or less agree with your assessment... except for the last part.
how can he be "way overpaid" and yet there not be a problem with is game right now?
He's paid to be a top-6, if not top-line, scoring winger who ALSO brings leadership & quality defensive play to the table.
That his offensive game is no longer up to par, imo is a big problem.
Certainly we shouldn't be giving him away for nothing, because as you nailed it, he is playing very well in the defensive match-up role that his line mostly operates in... but 5M$ for a smallish fwd whose best attribute is sound defensive play is not money well spent.
We can find players via trade or UFA that can fill that kind of role for far less.
MB should be quietly shopping him around, and if a suitable offer presents itself, pull the trigger.
In the meantime, it would be nice to see MT stop using him so heavily on the PP (Gionta leads the team in fwd pp time/game, amazingly) & get both Galch & Eller out there more often.
it will be interesting to see, were that to happen, how Gionta would handle it. If he's the quiet leader he's made out to be, then it shouldn't be an issue.
I think he's overpaid in the sense that I question whether or not he's a 25-30 goal scorer anymore and a 55-60 point producer. I think at this point in his career Gionta is a 15-20 goal scorer 35-45 point producer..which I don't think it worth 5 million. However, he does have excellent subtleties to his game which are soo important to the team's success. I don't mind the overpayment, it doesn't bother me that much, especially when I am happy with Gionta's game.
Gionta's game imo is hard to replace. I think he's extremely underrated as a defensive forward, even though people do praise that part of his game. His work on the backcheck and his work in his own zone are quite a sight to see. He plays such a key role with Plekanec in shutting down opposing players, it's impressive.
Trading Gionta to get rid of the overpayment is okay, but I still think you'll have a tough time finding the defensive side combined with his work ethic of his game in any other top 6 foward at a reasonable price (trade wise, not cap wise).
The Rangers broadcaster's even said yesterday that when they asked Therrien about the defensive game, he singled out Gionta and praised his importance to that aspect of the Habs' system.
I am more than comfortable with his game and the overpayment doesn't bother me, especially if we keep winning the way we have.
I like Gionta, but i'm not his biggest fan. He gives an honest effort game in and game out and he's a leader. Can't fault his work ethic. The only thing you can fault is his physical limitations, but obviosuly he can't control that. If we already have Desharnais and Gallagher on our team, i'm not a huge fan of having Gionta too. Next year is his last year of contract. If we get a decent return, I wouldn't mind parting with him. The thing is, he may have a big influence on the room. We don't know what kind of presence he has on this team and you wouldn't want to mess with the chemistry either..
I like Gionta, but i'm not his biggest fan. He gives an honest effort game in and game out and he's a leader. Can't fault his work ethic. The only thing you can fault is his physical limitations, but obviosuly he can't control that. If we already have Desharnais and Gallagher on our team, i'm not a huge fan of having Gionta too. Next year is his last year of contract. If we get a decent return, I wouldn't mind parting with him. The thing is, he may have a big influence on the room. We don't know what kind of presence he has on this team and you wouldn't want to mess with the chemistry either..
We don't really know how much of a leader and good Captain he is.
But what we know for sure is that he is still making way too much money for the type of output he's providing. He's not in Selanne or Koivu class. With a lower cap ceiling next season, he's gonna be even harder to trade. Unless he decides to retire, we are stucked with him for another two seasons.
Pretty harsh to say....but I'm done with Gionta. And like I keep saying, I predict that this will be pretty hard to handle for Therrien 'cause right now...Gionta would be on my 4th line. But tough 2 years to come especially at that amount.
We don't really know how much of a leader and good Captain he is.
But what we know for sure is that he is still making way too much money for the type of output he's providing. He's not in Selanne or Koivu class. With a lower cap ceiling next season, he's gonna be even harder to trade. Unless he decides to retire, we are stucked with him for another two seasons.
Another reason why I think Bergevin should try to trade him to team that want the cup this year.
I'm sure a coach like Hitchcok would love him on his team.
We don't really know how much of a leader and good Captain he is.
But what we know for sure is that he is still making way too much money for the type of output he's providing. He's not in Selanne or Koivu class. With a lower cap ceiling next season, he's gonna be even harder to trade. Unless he decides to retire, we are stucked with him for another two seasons.
Well that's just it, that's why I mentionned that. He may be a crappy capitain for all we know, or he may be awesome. It's hard to make assumptions for that. One thing we do know, is that he's overpaid for what he brings to the team. He would still have value to a team wanting to make a playoff run as he has Stanley Cup experience, and he only has one full year left on his contract.
We're first in the east. I wouldn't even let any team member change their haircut right now. Keep him, see if he's worth resigning next year.
In a certain way, you are right,
No team in the league is running on a whole 12 cylinders up front. there is always a couple of guys underperfoprming, anyway. Cole, Gionta are deceiving because of their age, background, salary and importance they have on this team.
