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George McPhee II

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06-10-2013, 09:38 PM
  #351
BTCG
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Originally Posted by Liberati0n View Post
Does "silly" mean factually/numerically undeniable?
I'd say so... which is what McPhee's track record on late round picks is.

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06-10-2013, 09:43 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post

I think you're really underestimating how tough it is to hit in the later rounds. McPhee has by no means been outstanding in that regard, but he's not below average either.
You must be a huge fan of our SE Division Championship banners.

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06-10-2013, 10:33 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
You must be a huge fan of our SE Division Championship banners.
Come on. McPhee's drafting in the late rounds is not what's kept us from making it past the 2nd round. You think the Kings won last year because they found Jordan Nolan in the 7th round? You think Chicago made the finals on the backs of Andrew Shaw and Marcus Kruger? The Bruins don't have a single player on their roster who they drafted later than the 3rd round. McPhee has far bigger and far more relevant deficiencies than this.

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06-10-2013, 10:36 PM
  #354
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Looking to win a Stanley Cup has much more to do than the draft as a whole, let alone late round picks. Of last years Kings Stanley Cup team 22 players played during the playoffs and 11 were drafted by the Kings. So 50% of the players, weren't drafted by the Kings. And of those players that were late round picks by the Kings only King, Martinez, and Nolan were drafted later than the 3rd round.

I'm not saying I'm a huge an of GMGM because I'm not. But even the team that won last years cup only had 3 late round picks making an impact, we currently have 2. To win a cup it goes much further than late round picks.

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06-10-2013, 10:36 PM
  #355
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But the RED WINGS found a few late round gems, so that's the narrative we have to drive into the ground, amirite?

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06-11-2013, 01:18 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
Come on. McPhee's drafting in the late rounds is not what's kept us from making it past the 2nd round. You think the Kings won last year because they found Jordan Nolan in the 7th round? You think Chicago made the finals on the backs of Andrew Shaw and Marcus Kruger? The Bruins don't have a single player on their roster who they drafted later than the 3rd round. McPhee has far bigger and far more relevant deficiencies than this.
Actually,

I didn't want to really explore what you were saying, because when you do, it's laughable.

In one breath, you claim that MP and Holtby demonstrate McPhee's ability to draft well in the later rounds (and throw out Datsyuk's name as somehow being an equivalent), and when it's pointed out that neither has accomplished anything to date, you credit Holtby with winning a playoff round.

I've gotta say, I was a bit taken back by that. While I've heard some whoppers in my time, crediting Holtby for Dale Hunter's work takes the cake.

And to mention Datsyuk as an equivilent, a guy with (from memory) 3 Selkes and 2 Stanley Cup rings, is like something from the NHL version of the Outer Limits.

Your post above is no different. I noticed that you want to steer the conversation away from the DRW (a door YOU opened), and my mention of Holmstrom, a guy drafted (again, from memory) in the 10th round, and the owner of 4 Stanley Cup rings.

And a closer reading shows that I never said that McPhee's poor drafting was why we cannot get past the 2nd round. Rather, it is but one reason.... one of many.

Blame yourself here, I didn't want to call you out on your posts, but you made me.

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06-11-2013, 01:48 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
Actually,

I didn't want to really explore what you were saying, because when you do, it's laughable.

In one breath, you claim that MP and Holtby demonstrate McPhee's ability to draft well in the later rounds (and throw out Datsyuk's name as somehow being an equivalent), and when it's pointed out that neither has accomplished anything to date, you credit Holtby with winning a playoff round.

I've gotta say, I was a bit taken back by that. While I've heard some whoppers in my time, crediting Holtby for Dale Hunter's work takes the cake.

And to mention Datsyuk as an equivilent, a guy with (from memory) 3 Selkes and 2 Stanley Cup rings, is like something from the NHL version of the Outer Limits.

Your post above is no different. I noticed that you want to steer the conversation away from the DRW (a door YOU opened), and my mention of Holmstrom, a guy drafted (again, from memory) in the 10th round, and the owner of 4 Stanley Cup rings.

And a closer reading shows that I never said that McPhee's poor drafting was why we cannot get past the 2nd round. Rather, it is but one reason.... one of many.

Blame yourself here, I didn't want to call you out on your posts, but you made me.
First of all, I've never mentioned Datsyuk, let alone compared him to anyone. You're the only one who's mentioned him to this point. I have no idea what you're talking about there, and that should probably be my signal to drop this, but oh well.

I said Holtby had won a playoff series. I never said he was the sole reason we won. It's an expression.

I never said McPhee drafted well in the late rounds. I pretty clearly said he was average.

I ignored Holmstrom because he was drafted in 1994 and I was talking about the period after Zetterberg in 1999. All he does is further illustrate how random late round drafting is. The same organization that was so praised for finding Holmstrom, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg in the mid-late 90s has spent the past decade doing jack **** with their late rounders.


Last edited by ChibiPooky: 06-11-2013 at 08:54 AM. Reason: Don't call other posters trolls
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06-11-2013, 02:17 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
I'm not entirely sure you're not trolling me at this point, but whatever, I'll respond.

First of all, I've never mentioned Datsyuk, let alone compared him to anyone. You're the only one who's mentioned him to this point. I have no idea what you're talking about there, and that should probably be my signal to drop this, but oh well.

I said Holtby had won a playoff series. I never said he was the sole reason we won. It's an expression.

I never said McPhee drafted well in the late rounds. I pretty clearly said he was average.

I ignored Holmstrom because he was drafted in 1994 and I was talking about the period after Zetterberg in 1999. All he does is further illustrate how random late round drafting is. The same organization that was so praised for finding Holmstrom, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg in the mid-late 90s has spent the past decade doing jack **** with their late rounders.
You brought up the DRW... not me.

Let's explore your claim that they haven't done 'jack ***' this last decade.

Seems to me that Homer, Maltby, and Draper, the latter 2 who were acquired as role players, with Draper being purchased for one dollar, all won Stanley Cup rings in 2007-08. They also went to the finals the very next year.

Your "expression" speaks for itself: I still cannot believe that anyone would credit Holtby for Hunter's work. That's just dumb.

Lastly, you knew I never claimed that the sole reason we cannot get past the 2nd round was our poor drafting. My old car analogy speaks for itself: our poor drafting is but ONE reason for our failure.


Last edited by BTCG: 06-11-2013 at 02:24 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old
06-11-2013, 02:32 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
Come on. McPhee's drafting in the late rounds is not what's kept us from making it past the 2nd round. .
My post (post # 22 in this thread):

Got a friend who treats his car like George McPhee treats the team: he half-arses every small repair or just ignores the problem, and when something major occurs, you end up weighing it against all of the other small repairs that need to be done as well, making you wonder whether the car is just too far gone to bother with.

Pick any area of the team, and there are serious issues. Hendricks is a small matter next to all of the other things that need changing.

We need a GM with real vision and we'll need to give him considerable time to repair things.


The reader will note the underlined portion of my post.

You nailed yourself there to that cross, Jesus. But still, I'd ask the mods not to punish you for your attempt to mislead (top post) the board.

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06-11-2013, 07:36 AM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
McPhee has far bigger and far more relevant deficiencies than this.
When you are at a buffet and the food sucks, you don't compliment the salad bar for having fresh dressing.

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06-11-2013, 07:58 AM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
I'm not entirely sure you're not trolling me at this point, but whatever, I'll respond.

First of all, I've never mentioned Datsyuk, let alone compared him to anyone. You're the only one who's mentioned him to this point. I have no idea what you're talking about there, and that should probably be my signal to drop this, but oh well.

I said Holtby had won a playoff series. I never said he was the sole reason we won. It's an expression.

I never said McPhee drafted well in the late rounds. I pretty clearly said he was average.

I ignored Holmstrom because he was drafted in 1994 and I was talking about the period after Zetterberg in 1999. All he does is further illustrate how random late round drafting is. The same organization that was so praised for finding Holmstrom, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg in the mid-late 90s has spent the past decade doing jack **** with their late rounders.
1994 was also a totally different era for scouting. Since European scouting was less developed, there were more "late-round gems" to be found in the first place. Today most of those players don't slip through to the later rounds. If, say, Riley Barber does pan out and become a top-6 NHL forward, finding him in the 6th round today is much more impressive than finding Holmstrom wherever in 1994. Datsyuk and Zetterberg were obviously great picks, but I'm so tired of hearing about Detroit's drafting in completely hyperbolic terms. If anything, anyway, it's their development that should probably be especially lauded.

Regardless, it seems pretty clear that McPhee doesn't make the decisions in later rounds. He can be judged for how he assembles and manages the scouting staff, but to think he's personally responsible for every draft pick is misguided. The goalie picks seem to be completely (or almost completely) based on Prior's recommendations.

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06-11-2013, 07:58 AM
  #362
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Hendy was one of George's best finds since he was free. Does that count on George's report card? It certainly is in the class of a 7th rounder he drafted playing 100 games, when derailing a thread to grade a GM. Someone bump the GM thread.

Donut Buffets are the best.

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Old
06-11-2013, 02:12 PM
  #363
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Dont see many bring up this GMGM fail--letting Oduya walk.

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06-11-2013, 02:25 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Kegger View Post
Dont see many bring up this GMGM fail--letting Oduya walk.
Wasn't that because it appeared he had gone back to Sweden for good, and had no interest in playing for Washington?

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06-11-2013, 02:54 PM
  #365
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Wasn't that because it appeared he had gone back to Sweden for good, and had no interest in playing for Washington?
I think so, and it's pretty unimportant regardless. People love to pick at these marginal issues, but things like that happen to every team and aren't what a GM's performance should be judged on. The incoherence of McPhee's approach is probably the biggest reason he should be fired, but not locking Oduya up or whatever other example you want to use aren't really relevant.

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06-11-2013, 03:47 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by Liberati0n View Post
I think so, and it's pretty unimportant regardless. People love to pick at these marginal issues, but things like that happen to every team and aren't what a GM's performance should be judged on. The incoherence of McPhee's approach is probably the biggest reason he should be fired, but not locking Oduya up or whatever other example you want to use aren't really relevant.
They had the chance to sign him out of camp, they didn't so yeah he returned to the SEL.
I don't think things like this are unimportant. This was at a time where our defensive depth was horrible. Heward, Muir, Biron, Majesky... But couldn't find the room to sign him to an entry level deal. That's embarrassing.

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06-11-2013, 03:56 PM
  #367
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They had the chance to sign him out of camp, they didn't so yeah he returned to the SEL.
I don't think things like this are unimportant. This was at a time where our defensive depth was horrible. Heward, Muir, Biron, Majesky... But couldn't find the room to sign him to an entry level deal. That's embarrassing.
Not really. It has almost nothing to do with anything. He wouldn't have made a difference on those teams, and probably wouldn't be on the team today anyway. Letting go of prospects who years later claim an NHL job is just something that happens. You're focusing on a total non-issue when there are plenty of legitimate problems worthy of attention. The fact that John Erskine had to be played as a top-4 defenseman and Steve Oleksy and Jack Hillen were regulars this year is a serious problem, and should be held against McPhee; the fact that Johnny Oduya wasn't filling one of those spots because the team had his rights a decade ago isn't.

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06-11-2013, 04:09 PM
  #368
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Oduya could be here right now, that helps solve your last point clearly. Look, I get what your saying, it appears to be a look back option on Oduya. I think the scouts/management could have done a better job handling that situation, that's all.

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06-11-2013, 04:12 PM
  #369
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Doubt that Oduya would still be here today. He probably would have left around the same time as Eminger, ShaMo, Jurcina, etc.

Though, perhaps Eminger doesn't get rushed if Oduya is in the fold. The "could have beens" are never very clear, though.

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06-11-2013, 10:04 PM
  #370
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TBM loved the oduya pick, especially since he had a mean streak.

now, that should have been a huge red flag, since makfi didnt value "hard nosed" D-men back then.

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06-12-2013, 01:26 AM
  #371
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Mike Vogel ‏@VogsCaps 10 Jun
Eakins was a #Caps draft choice (10th rd, 208th overall) in 1985. Never played in DC.


Nashville should be ashamed for even hiring Poile.

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06-12-2013, 05:54 AM
  #372
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Mike Vogel ‏@VogsCaps 10 Jun
Eakins was a #Caps draft choice (10th rd, 208th overall) in 1985. Never played in DC.


Nashville should be ashamed for even hiring Poile.
Haha. Glad Poile could at least figure out that he would be a predominate AHL defenseman, and wisely let him go.

Just find it hilarious that Oduya wasnt even given a contract. He may only be a 5/6/7 dman but has solid FF%--exactly what the Caps sorely miss--and yet he somehow finds his way onto Cup winning teams. Maybe its dumb luck, or he just has the worlds smartest agent. I dont care that he is not here right now but at a time when Muir and Majesky were our best defensemen and we were so desperate that we rushed our entire crop of defensive draft picks and threw them at the wolves. That is not a red flag to anyone?

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06-12-2013, 06:23 AM
  #373
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Haha. Glad Poile could at least figure out that he would be a predominate AHL defenseman, and wisely let him go.

Just find it hilarious that Oduya wasnt even given a contract. He may only be a 5/6/7 dman but has solid FF%--exactly what the Caps sorely miss--and yet he somehow finds his way onto Cup winning teams. Maybe its dumb luck, or he just has the worlds smartest agent. I dont care that he is not here right now but at a time when Muir and Majesky were our best defensemen and we were so desperate that we rushed our entire crop of defensive draft picks and threw them at the wolves. That is not a red flag to anyone?
That is a red flag for certain but the problem is the bottom line. The only team that GMGM has had get beyond the 2nd round wasn't built buy him. He tweeked it but he didn't build it. He's built a great regular season/first round exit team. That's not good enough after 15 years.

Leonsis has proven he is willing to accept the status quo as long as the sell out streak continues so don't expect any changes.

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06-12-2013, 03:56 PM
  #374
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Originally Posted by Chokingdogs View Post
TBM loved the oduya pick, especially since he had a mean streak.

now, that should have been a huge red flag, since makfi didnt value "hard nosed" D-men back then.
I remember him wanting Barch to get some playing time also.

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06-12-2013, 03:58 PM
  #375
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Caps will take a firm step backwards next season. Simply being away from the Southeast will see to that being a reality.

I honestly do not see this team making the playoffs, unless some serious moves are made. The team that lost to the Rags, minus Ribeiro, in the new Atlantic division....does not get into the playoffs.

9th, 10th, maybe as low as 12th.

That Said?

FIRE George!!
I agree, especially with the new division.

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