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Forecasting the Head Coaching position for 2013-2014

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Old
03-25-2013, 01:03 PM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
"Geez, we fire a lot of coaches, maybe some we shouldn't."
"You think we'll fire the coach? There's this other guy I like..."
Firing happens, --my list and stat that make obviously clear. So we can expect anything.

In my post, which is in a thread about our coaching situation, I propose we lost some coaches because we fired the wrong guy. Hopefully we're past that now as a franchise.

Assuming for the sake of argument (last I looked this a Discussion board), that we do NOT make the playoffs, it is logical to assume JD and Jarmo will want "their guy".

The question is: Is Richards their guy?

I agree with OldGoal and blahblah. Richards and the staff have had a hand in making this season respectable, but unlike some up here, I'm not satisfied with being tickled pink.

I'm also predicting Trots to be fired. And that raises the next question: Can we do BETTER than Richards??

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03-25-2013, 01:53 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
Firing happens, --my list and stat that make obviously clear. So we can expect anything.

In my post, which is in a thread about our coaching situation, I propose we lost some coaches because we fired the wrong guy. Hopefully we're past that now as a franchise.

Assuming for the sake of argument (last I looked this a Discussion board), that we do NOT make the playoffs, it is logical to assume JD and Jarmo will want "their guy".

The question is: Is Richards their guy?

I agree with OldGoal and blahblah. Richards and the staff have had a hand in making this season respectable, but unlike some up here, I'm not satisfied with being tickled pink.

I'm also predicting Trots to be fired. And that raises the next question: Can we do BETTER than Richards??
Still not sure the point of your "here's what we've done in the past" exercise vis-a-vis the current coaching situation and whether we can expect changes behind the bench.

Now, your last point is an interesting one. The answer, to me anyway, is, we could. There are coaches who are better than Richards, and have been better coaches throughout the history of the NHL. The follow-up point is, there have been and currently are worse coaches, as well.

So again I default, as did some others, to the "IF JD/Jarmo opt to keep Richards, OK. If they opt to make a change, OK."

I reserve the right to ***** about who they hire if they make a change and I don't like the new guy.

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03-25-2013, 02:23 PM
  #153
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I have no problems with the job Richards has done this year. He's put a structured system in place that the players have obviously bought into that is allowing this team to stay in the hunt. He's done this with a complete dearth of high level skill on this team. Most of the forwards are at best a second liner on most clubs.

He's gotten the absolute best he can get from these guys this year. Add in some actual offensive skill and we might be talking about a team comfortably in the playoffs. I think that he's probably earned a two year extension. I could be wrong, but I think in a bad situation (lack of skill, new President and GM), Richards has made the best of the situation. Who in their right mind would have imagined that this team would be sitting at 13-13-6?

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03-25-2013, 03:32 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
Firing happens, --my list and stat that make obviously clear. So we can expect anything.

In my post, which is in a thread about our coaching situation, I propose we lost some coaches because we fired the wrong guy. Hopefully we're past that now as a franchise.

Assuming for the sake of argument (last I looked this a Discussion board), that we do NOT make the playoffs, it is logical to assume JD and Jarmo will want "their guy".

The question is: Is Richards their guy?

I agree with OldGoal and blahblah. Richards and the staff have had a hand in making this season respectable, but unlike some up here, I'm not satisfied with being tickled pink.

I'm also predicting Trots to be fired. And that raises the next question: Can we do BETTER than Richards??
It took the team half a season to figure out Richard's system, but the fans are patient and waited through that. So we can fire Richards, hire a new coach, and they can wait around again with the team in the cellar while the players figure out yet another system.

Good Plan!!!!! We don't need to make the playoffs next year either.


Last edited by Skraut: 03-25-2013 at 03:38 PM.
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03-25-2013, 03:41 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
It took the team half a season to figure out Richard's system, but the fans are patient and waited through that. So we can fire Richards, hire a new coach, and they can wait around again with the team in the cellar while the players figure out yet another system.

Good Plan!!!!!
I don't buy that. I think this team had a lot of new faces and it just took time for all of them to learn each other and start playing on the same page, given that there was only a week of training camp and no preseason.

I think Richards has done more than enough to earn an extension. If anyone told you that we would be in the playoff race right now you would have thought they were crazy. He has done an amazing job with a team that has very little skill.

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03-25-2013, 10:22 PM
  #156
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The only reason we are currently in the race is Bob standing on his head for nine games. Statistically speaking, so many wins have been razor thin that if we had had league avg gtending we'd be in the soup.

I'm enjoying the team, but trying not to wear a rose colored visor.

@skraut
JD says we're rebuilding for the long haul. If he doesn't think Richards can take us to the next level, better we do it sooner than next year. Is that what JD thinks? I dunno. Without Bob's play, I'm betting we'd already have seen a change a la Stevie Y.

@dsl. My list was a jab at the XGMs. Thought I made that obvious. There are two coaches on it that have been more successful since leaving than Richards. And their rosters were no better than ours.

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03-26-2013, 07:11 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
It took the team half a season to figure out Richard's system, but the fans are patient and waited through that. So we can fire Richards, hire a new coach, and they can wait around again with the team in the cellar while the players figure out yet another system.

Good Plan!!!!! We don't need to make the playoffs next year either.
Yes, no coach has every came in on for their first season and made the playoffs. Nice false dichotomy there.

I expect a lot of people on this forum to exercise FUD to illustrate the worst case scenario possible, my hope is that you wouldn't be one of them. Do not use FUD, please, to promote your idea or preference.

Was it you that gave me crap about the Jackets needing to simplify their game? They sure as hell simplified it, with pretty good results.

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03-26-2013, 07:33 AM
  #158
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Arace's article today sums up my thoughts about where we are.
He asks the question "Is it a mirage?" And suggests we may be on thin ice for several reasons.

http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/...p-winning.html

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03-26-2013, 07:40 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
It took the team half a season to figure out Richard's system, but the fans are patient and waited through that. So we can fire Richards, hire a new coach, and they can wait around again with the team in the cellar while the players figure out yet another system.

Good Plan!!!!! We don't need to make the playoffs next year either.
For all the reasons not to fire Richards, this fabricated worst-case scenario is not among them.

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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
@dsl. My list was a jab at the XGMs. Thought I made that obvious. There are two coaches on it that have been more successful since leaving than Richards. And their rosters were no better than ours.
It was obvious what you were doing (and lord knows we need more rehashing of the organization's brief history). What wasn't obvious is what it had to do with the rest of your point that it might be time to move on from Richards. The rehashign seemed a cautionary tale, not to bail on something too soon. Then you tuern around and tell us it might be time to make a big move forward with a new coach.

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03-26-2013, 07:50 AM
  #160
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Yes, no coach has every came in on for their first season and made the playoffs. Nice false dichotomy there.

I expect a lot of people on this forum to exercise FUD to illustrate the worst case scenario possible, my hope is that you wouldn't be one of them. Do not use FUD, please, to promote your idea or preference.

Was it you that gave me crap about the Jackets needing to simplify their game? They sure as hell simplified it, with pretty good results.
Nope, I was the one saying the team needed the time to learn Richard's system. And that this shortened season would be perfect time to try it and see what worked for a future season. If it was a complete failure, we end up with a top pick, and a new coach next season. If the players figured it out, and started stringing wins together, playoffs might be a possibility. Going away from it, and simplifying it for the sake of a few wins would be the worst thing that could happen, as it would leave the GM without a good picture of what the system could do going forward, and therefore no real plan going into the next season.

As far as promoting my preference, I've stated since day 1 my preference for SOME consistency, ANY consistency in the front office/coaching staff, so that there are things to build on. Sorry but you can only beat your head against a wall for so long before you have to try another tactic before the self inflicted brain damage gets worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
The only reason we are currently in the race is Bob standing on his head for nine games. Statistically speaking, so many wins have been razor thin that if we had had league avg gtending we'd be in the soup.

I'm enjoying the team, but trying not to wear a rose colored visor.

@skraut
JD says we're rebuilding for the long haul. If he doesn't think Richards can take us to the next level, better we do it sooner than next year. Is that what JD thinks? I dunno. Without Bob's play, I'm betting we'd already have seen a change a la Stevie Y.
Hockey is a team game, yet too many focus on the man behind the mask, giving too much credit for wins, and too much blame for losses. What we have seen, is an aggressive forecheck, and a defense that is limiting shots to the outside, from low scoring areas. Bob has been good, yes, but the team in front of him as been playing a cohesive game that is making his job easier. When they let him down, as was done in Nashville, goals get scored.

It is clear evidence that the system Richards has in place was doing its job when executed.

But hey, I'm sure there are plenty of other coaches who can take 3 lines of 3rd liners and some goons and have their fans talking about the possibility of playoffs in late March. The last time we went away from a coach with a structured system it worked so well for us.

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03-26-2013, 08:01 AM
  #161
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Nope, I was the one saying the team needed the time to learn Richard's system. And that this shortened season would be perfect time to try it and see what worked for a future season. If it was a complete failure, we end up with a top pick, and a new coach next season. If the players figured it out, and started stringing wins together, playoffs might be a possibility. Going away from it, and simplifying it for the sake of a few wins would be the worst thing that could happen, as it would leave the GM without a good picture of what the system could do going forward, and therefore no real plan going into the next season.
Simplify, than build. Extremely common. Put players in position where they can succeed. Don't make them do too much. Players like Atkinson and Johansen can take that foundation and build upon it. Guys like Foligno, and there are a few on the team like him, should be playing this style anyway.

Skraut, I like you as a poster, but you seem to be in FUD mode. Trust me, JK is more than capable of building a plan based on what is happening on the ice. This isn't throwing him off. That is insulting to a GM to suggest otherwise. If JK is thrown off by it, JD made a poor decision. Anyone can look at bottom 3 in scoring and realize we need to improve there. We also know the system isn't holding them back from scoring more.

I guess the worst case has happened, because we are playing the most simple, bland version of hockey that exists. Frankly it's a style I like.

Quote:
As far as promoting my preference, I've stated since day 1 my preference for SOME consistency, ANY consistency in the front office/coaching staff, so that there are things to build on. Sorry but you can only beat your head against a wall for so long before you have to try another tactic before the self inflicted brain damage gets worse.



Hockey is a team game, yet too many focus on the man behind the mask, giving too much credit for wins, and too much blame for losses. What we have seen, is an aggressive forecheck, and a defense that is limiting shots to the outside, from low scoring areas. Bob has been good, yes, but the team in front of him as been playing a cohesive game that is making his job easier. When they let him down, as was done in Nashville, goals get scored.

It is clear evidence that the system Richards has in place was doing its job when executed.

But hey, I'm sure there are plenty of other coaches who can take 3 lines of 3rd liners and some goons and have their fans talking about the possibility of playoffs in late March. The last time we went away from a coach with a structured system it worked so well for us.
The consistently is the hiring of JD who hired JK who is going to hire his head coach if he doesn't keep the one he has now. I don't know what your deal is, but you've created the worst possible outcome for just about everything.

You using the whole "3 lines of third liner and some goons" is waaaaaay beneath you and an insult to the players on the team. I know you are capable of far more intelligent analysis. You have a case to keep Richards, and I agree with some of the points if we don't end up at the same place. I am more than comfortable allowing decisions to be made by the new front office and evaluating them based on their results. They were brought in to solidify and stabilize the franchise. I am going to let them do their job and not subject myself to some irrational doomsday fear. You don't need to resort to this.

Sorry if I'm being hard on you, but it's hard to read it.


Last edited by blahblah: 03-26-2013 at 08:13 AM.
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03-26-2013, 08:25 AM
  #162
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Thanks for setting me straight.

Does this line of thinking have a club, or T-Shirts? I've lost some weight lately and could use some new shirts.

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03-26-2013, 08:29 AM
  #163
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...the whole "3 lines of second and third liner and, some might say, cute goons"...
Help any?

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03-26-2013, 09:03 AM
  #164
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Help any?
Oh sure, just feed into the stereotyping.... :p

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03-26-2013, 09:08 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
Thanks for setting me straight.

Does this line of thinking have a club, or T-Shirts? I've lost some weight lately and could use some new shirts.
An overall defensive strategy with consistent average to above average goaltending can win; Hitchcock, Ruff, and others have proven this over the years… I think Richards has done well in building a consistent team game plan that should help most goalies, add in a goalie that is in a zone and one gets 12 games in row with points.

Going forward if Richards can keep it up and if both Bob and Mason play average or above the Jackets should come close to making the playoffs, making the playoffs is going to be difficult with only 16 games left but it’s still possible.. It’s been a good season so far, if the CBJ go .500 from here on out I’ll be satisfied with or without the playoffs, and if they do go .500 I think Richards will get another shot next season… All is yet to be determined though.

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03-26-2013, 09:10 AM
  #166
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Does this line of thinking have a club, or T-Shirts? I've lost some weight lately and could use some new shirts.
Didn't really consider starting a club for a group of one. Grats on losing some weight, if it's as much as I have my I recommend tight fitting tee's? It's awesome to be able to wear them again without being embarrassed.

I'll assume your post was less than genuine, but I'll do like I tend to do and answer it seriously.

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03-26-2013, 09:20 AM
  #167
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Where do you want this team to be in three years?


That might be a better jumping off point for this thread.

If the team is rebuilding (which is what's been the jive I've gotten each time I've heard JD or Jarmo speak), losses will be a unfortunate truth. The organization isn't going to mortage its over arching plan by sacrificing young players in deals that are for rentals, and aren't likely to sacrifice high draft picks unless they are securing the services of players that are young, talented, signed beyond the current season and have shown effort in their games. Todd Richards has done well turning a mess of spare parts into a team, can it be sustained? I don't know, but I do feel comfortable enough saying that by the time this organization is ready to take the next leap forward, Richards will likely have been relieved of his duties, be it through a firing or unrenewed contract. Transition is everywhere in this organization right now.

The unicorn in all this is that as fans, we'd all love to see this high continue and the team make moves that show they are committed to winning not just in the future, but now. We see Richards as a guy thats working right now, so its human nature to root for him. The team is playing well, Richards has them working hard, and the rebuild is still being mapped out, I see no reason he shouldn't remain in his position at least until the end of his deal next offseason. It just all depends on how close to being over the transition period is. JD and Jarmo will want to give their handpicked coach the best oppurtunity to succeed.

Three years from now, I expect to see more homegrown players on a path to the NHL or in the league and contributing nightly for the Jackets.

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03-26-2013, 09:27 AM
  #168
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Didn't really consider starting a club for a group of one. Grats on losing some weight, if it's as much as I have my I recommend tight fitting tee's? It's awesome to be able to wear them again without being embarrassed.

I'll assume your post was less than genuine, but I'll do like I tend to do and answer it seriously.
It was totally serious. If my opinions aren't any good, I might as well latch on to someone else's. If you can't beat'em join'em

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03-26-2013, 09:52 AM
  #169
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The rest of the season matters, but at this point I don't see how you don't stick with Richards. If the team finishes strong but just out of the playoffs and Richards is canned, I'll be pretty miffed. Letting go of a guy who has turned a lot of heads with his team's play in order to install 'your guy' would be a pretty arrogant act. Even if you don't like him, the players sure seem to respond.

Now, if the teams stinks it up, Richards gives JD and JK a reason to fire him. I just think we have to see how things play out.

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03-26-2013, 12:37 PM
  #170
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The rest of the season matters, but at this point I don't see how you don't stick with Richards. If the team finishes strong but just out of the playoffs and Richards is canned, I'll be pretty miffed. Letting go of a guy who has turned a lot of heads with his team's play in order to install 'your guy' would be a pretty arrogant act. Even if you don't like him, the players sure seem to respond.

Now, if the teams stinks it up, Richards gives JD and JK a reason to fire him. I just think we have to see how things play out.
I agree barring any more bone headed mistakes, like riding the hot goalie into the ground. I think Todd is part of a winning formula. He may not be irreplacable, but he is the right coach at this time, with this roster, to be competitive.

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03-26-2013, 01:38 PM
  #171
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... Letting go of a guy who has turned a lot of heads with his team's play in order to install 'your guy' would be a pretty arrogant act...
Hmmm, where have I seen that bolded word, recently? Oh yeah, in virtually every description of our new GM!

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03-26-2013, 04:43 PM
  #172
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Hmmm, where have I seen that bolded word, recently? Oh yeah, in virtually every description of our new GM!
really? I was drawing on another CBJ poster's post (Sore Loser or Nordique I think?) but that's the only place I've seen it. I did suggest he might actually be evil in another thread, but that's different from arrogant

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03-26-2013, 05:51 PM
  #173
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The reason why Columbus is where it is would be the fact that we were losing a lot of 1 goal games that we are now winning.

Aka why we are around .500.

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03-26-2013, 06:55 PM
  #174
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Hmmm, where have I seen that bolded word, recently? Oh yeah, in virtually every description of our new GM!
True. . . .so true. . .

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03-27-2013, 07:26 AM
  #175
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For all the reasons not to fire Richards, this fabricated worst-case scenario is not among them.



It was obvious what you were doing (and lord knows we need more rehashing of the organization's brief history). What wasn't obvious is what it had to do with the rest of your point that it might be time to move on from Richards. The rehashign seemed a cautionary tale, not to bail on something too soon. Then you tuern around and tell us it might be time to make a big move forward with a new coach.
Please read my original post again when you've sobered up.
I do not suggest replacing Richards. I question whether JD and Jarmo will want "their guy".

Rehashing team history is good sport. Its what we do. But again, if you read my post, you will see WHY I listed all of them: to make the point that several were arguably better than Richards, but were screwed by the GMs and the room.

And yes, I might think its time to dump Richards if he can't get our top six to generate more than a pint of piss every game. I find scoring goals to be one of the "Keys to the Game." Weird I know.

Of course, if you're saying we're not allowed on HF to have two subjects per post, or look at the past, or believe good coaches help their team to score at least the Claude minimum, then I apologize.

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