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04-10-2013, 06:11 PM
  #1
CriminallyVu1gar
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Crowds in Florida

I write for a Sabres blog and have been working on an article on home field advantage and crowd atmosphere and how the two relate. There's a numbers side, plugging in W/L/OTL, and an anecdotal side, getting a feel for the atmosphere in each arena. The latter is why I'm here.

I was surprised to learn that Florida has one of the biggest differentials in home vs. away points percentage at +.135 (2nd in 'east' behind Winnipeg since 2005-2006). The perception around the league is probably that crowds in Florida are bad. Not trying to start a fight, just saying that's the perception. Getting the real story from people that go to games is why I'm here.

On a scale of 1-5, 5 being the highest, how would you rate the level of positive atmosphere in the building during games?

I'd like to put the percentages next to the fans' description of the atmosphere and see if there's any correlation between a good atmosphere and winning games. Thanks if you answer, and if you think this is dumb and want to nuke it, no hard feelings.

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04-10-2013, 06:22 PM
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adam graves
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Is this as a result of the well publicized buffalo fans booing their players so much the players are on record asking it to stop?

Has the negative sabre fans effected their play like the players state?

Ill just say this: we are well out of it, yet fans still come out and cheer as if its gm 1. Our players are blessed to have us. And they know it.

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04-10-2013, 06:23 PM
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Oh yea definitely 5........ for the other team.

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04-10-2013, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Is this as a result of the well publicized buffalo fans booing their players so much the players are on record asking it to stop?

Has the negative sabre fans effected their play like the players state?

Ill just say this: we are well out of it, yet fans still come out and cheer as if its gm 1. Our players are blessed to have us. And they know it.
You hit the nail on the head, that's the inspiration.

I think that atmosphere absolutely has some effect. It's obviously less than the talent of the players and several other things, but the effect is there. My ire with my fellow Sabres fans is that I think in an NHL where the cap and the CBA try to smooth out every advantage, you latch on to whatever advantage you can get, even if you believe crowd atmosphere is a tiny tiny contributor.

Especially when the motivation behind booing is wanting to see good hockey and the players explicitly saying that booing doesn't help bring good hockey.

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04-10-2013, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CriminallyVu1gar View Post
I write for a Sabres blog and have been working on an article on home field advantage and crowd atmosphere and how the two relate. There's a numbers side, plugging in W/L/OTL, and an anecdotal side, getting a feel for the atmosphere in each arena. The latter is why I'm here.

I was surprised to learn that Florida has one of the biggest differentials in home vs. away points percentage at +.135 (2nd in 'east' behind Winnipeg since 2005-2006). The perception around the league is probably that crowds in Florida are bad. Not trying to start a fight, just saying that's the perception. Getting the real story from people that go to games is why I'm here.

On a scale of 1-5, 5 being the highest, how would you rate the level of positive atmosphere in the building during games?

I'd like to put the percentages next to the fans' description of the atmosphere and see if there's any correlation between a good atmosphere and winning games. Thanks if you answer, and if you think this is dumb and want to nuke it, no hard feelings.
I recently attended a Panthers game that ended in a shootout win over the Sabres. I sat in front of two male Sabres fans. They guys showed up late in the first reeking of alcohol and junk food. They got more and more drunk as the game went on. They just yelled, screamed and cursed the Sabres and the Panthers nearly the entire night.

First of all, I don't claim to be a saint when I'm at a hockey game and I definitely can relate to getting out of work and blowing off some steam with a beer or two. That being said, these two guys were just flat out annoying. Some fan bases might agree that those two gentlemen were providing a positive hockey atmosphere. In other words, some fans think they are valuable to a good crowd because they yell, scream, make noise and consume alcohol.

To me, they were simply loud, obnoxious and annoying. IMO, they do not contribute to a "positive atmosphere". Which brings me to the question..

What's your definition of a positive atmosphere?

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04-10-2013, 06:49 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Rypien Farts View Post
I recently attended a Panthers game that ended in a shootout win over the Sabres. I sat in front of two male Sabres fans. They guys showed up late in the first reeking of alcohol and junk food. They got more and more drunk as the game went on. They just yelled, screamed and cursed the Sabres and the Panthers nearly the entire night.

First of all, I don't claim to be a saint when I'm at a hockey game and I definitely can relate to getting out of work and blowing off some steam with a beer or two. That being said, these two guys were just flat out annoying. Some fan bases might agree that those two gentlemen were providing a positive hockey atmosphere. In other words, some fans think they are valuable to a good crowd because they yell, scream, make noise and consume alcohol.

To me, they were simply loud, obnoxious and annoying. IMO, they do not contribute to a "positive atmosphere". Which brings me to the question..

What's your definition of a positive atmosphere?
Just loud and positive for the home team. With regards to the Sabres current situation the players have said they feed off positive noise, Let's Go ______ chants and such. Or conversely, not booing, haha.

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04-10-2013, 07:09 PM
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For what it's worth, Florida placed 5th overall behind Calgary, Winnipeg (separated from Atlanta), Minnesota, and Nashville. Third when I applied a correction factor to try and smooth out the Western travel disadvantage (Calgary, Winnipeg).

I like where this is headed since those four are regarded as having pretty loud positive atmospheres, and certainly Florida might be right there based on last season's playoff crowds.

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04-10-2013, 07:30 PM
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I would say for positivity we are a 5. Don't remember any fans cussing out our own team (were probably just used to it). I am not sure if this is part of the question, but as far as loudness and fan interaction go I would say we are 2.5-3. I think Philadelphia, Montreal, Winnipeg would be 5's.

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04-10-2013, 10:05 PM
  #9
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Last year: 5

This year: 2.5, almost 3

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04-11-2013, 12:24 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Rypien Farts View Post
Last year: 5

This year: 2.5, almost 3
you have to keep in mind, though, that we've been the worst team in the league for the majority of the season. so while yes, our crowds have not been nearly as loud as last season, most other fanbases in our situation would be booing the living crap out of our players.

our crowds in the playoffs were incredibly loud. when goc scored to tie the game i thought my head was going to explode. and FYI - i'm a seahawks fan in the NFL and have been to games at Quest/CenturyLink field (which is supposedly the loudest building in the NFL, by far) - and our playoff games were pretty comparable.

aside from maybe once or twice after a terrible period, i can't really remember our crowds booing the panthers. i think most of the fans realize the situation.

we're not nearly as loud as winnipeg or anything like that, but i went to a game at MSG two years ago (vs the Islanders, where the Rangers won like 7-1) and their atmosphere was no louder than ours, if at all. add the fact that theres considerably less pressure here, i can see why playing in Florida might become favorable.

source: i've been a season ticket holder for 10 yrs.

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04-11-2013, 12:29 AM
  #11
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here's a video of the goc goal from last year. turn up the volume a bit and you can really hear/feel how loud it truly was in there



EDIT: I love the second comment: "Hiei2k7 11 months ago

I think hockey in Florida can work. Someone's gonna have to go fish the roof out of the Atlantic, it's been blown off."


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04-11-2013, 01:15 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
here's a video of the goc goal from last year. turn up the volume a bit and you can really hear/feel how loud it truly was in there



EDIT: I love the second comment: "Hiei2k7 11 months ago

I think hockey in Florida can work. Someone's gonna have to go fish the roof out of the Atlantic, it's been blown off."

Might be slightly off topic but...memories...

- What an epic moment. I remember standing up most of the third, and both OTs. Unbelievable atmosphere.

- I miss Bergenheim. He set that up on a broken ankle.

- Love Brodeur's reaction. Seems like he can't believe the turn of events. Between him and DeBoer, they seem unsure if they'll win.

- I love the call from Strader. You can hear the intensity in the score call. He's not one of my favorites but he does a good job.

- Jay Ro destroys all in arena excitement.

- Can't wait to be back in the playoffs. Glad we got a taste between the drought and now. Don't think I could take this season if we hadn't made it last year.

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04-11-2013, 01:59 AM
  #13
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The Panthers has always had great fans. They have supported this team through everything.

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04-11-2013, 02:54 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KittysGotClaws View Post
Might be slightly off topic but...memories...

- What an epic moment. I remember standing up most of the third, and both OTs. Unbelievable atmosphere.

- I miss Bergenheim. He set that up on a broken ankle.

- Love Brodeur's reaction. Seems like he can't believe the turn of events. Between him and DeBoer, they seem unsure if they'll win.

- I love the call from Strader. You can hear the intensity in the score call. He's not one of my favorites but he does a good job.

- Jay Ro destroys all in arena excitement.

- Can't wait to be back in the playoffs. Glad we got a taste between the drought and now. Don't think I could take this season if we hadn't made it last year.
Agreed on pretty much everything. That's easily the best Panthers moment for me, live. Only got to watch 2 games in '96 in person.

I don't know if you remember, but after that goal, we were all over the Devils. just completely dominating the game, and Brodeur just barely stopped Versteeg on a point-blank backhander with 14 seconds left in the third. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind, that if we had tied the game sooner (AKA: if Fleishmann's goal wasn't waived off for a BS goalie interference call) - we win that game. The Devils were blowing leads all series and were in full-panic mode after that goal. We had them running around, on their heels after Goc scored. They regrouped during the intermission and settled down to slow the game back down in overtime.

To get back on topic: here's the call from TSN, where you can also really feel the place rocking.


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04-11-2013, 03:12 AM
  #15
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Both posts with the Goc video in it hit the nail directly on the head. Once this team starts winning more on a consistent basis, you will see a more positive turnout, and real intensitiy and interaction from the fans during playoff hockey. Towards the end of the 3rd, and both OTs, most of the fans were on their feet, cheering the Panthers on. The fans are there, and will show up, the intensity is there, now we just need for the team to show up.

Here are a couple other examples (love how the crowd reacts to the teams hard work):





Last edited by pb1300: 04-11-2013 at 03:22 AM.
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04-11-2013, 08:34 AM
  #16
adam graves
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So, in sum, I'd say our fan base is respectfully supportive during this epically prolonged down phase, and rabidly supportive during the few moments of glory...

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04-11-2013, 08:45 AM
  #17
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Ive been quite surprised by the size of the crowd excluding club red of course all season long. Average attendance has increased greatly from last year to this year regardless of our losing ways.

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04-11-2013, 08:50 AM
  #18
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I think its been mostly positive throughout this yr. I can only remember one instance this season where some players could be kinda effected by the crowd. And that was after we were constantly seeing bad goaltending that the crowd started chanting "We Want Markstrom" while he was still playing in the minors I believe (or maybe it was just after Theo was injured but wasnt sure about the extent of it). I'm sure that kinda sucked to hear if you were Theo or Clemmer but they were playing horribly and it was kinda deserved.

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04-11-2013, 10:06 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
I think its been mostly positive throughout this yr. I can only remember one instance this season where some players could be kinda effected by the crowd. And that was after we were constantly seeing bad goaltending that the crowd started chanting "We Want Markstrom" while he was still playing in the minors I believe (or maybe it was just after Theo was injured but wasnt sure about the extent of it). I'm sure that kinda sucked to hear if you were Theo or Clemmer but they were playing horribly and it was kinda deserved.


Theo was injured, Marky was there ready to go. Clemmer gave up his perennial 3 goals in the lst period.

AS you say it was loud and well deserved. Clemmer would be the lst to tell you that. He would have been booed out of most arenas.

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04-11-2013, 12:10 PM
  #20
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iirc that may have been the night Tallas was our backup.

The only other time is when our crowd can't shutup the opposing team's crowd. uggh I know it irks me.

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04-11-2013, 02:01 PM
  #21
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I'd say our crowd has one of the lowest hockey IQ crowds of any hockey team. You find very few actual hockey fans at panther games, when you do they are usually donning the visiting teams jersey. While there are a handful of very avid, loyal hockey fans that attend these games, as a whole, the crowd is probably a factor in the perennial failure of this organization. No one likes playing HOCKEY here, sure the golf and surfing is great. But this is not a place to play hockey and feel like a hockey player. You can tell with the season records of this team. they are horrible. It is near impossible to get a chant started in the arena, unless the mindless drones just repeat what the schlumbo-tron is telling them to chant. All in all, the BB&T Center is a superb arena, unfortunately the fans that go with it are below average. 2/5

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04-11-2013, 08:27 PM
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Great stuff guys, thanks for the responses. Still working on the numbers side of things to quantify home ice advantage.

Found that since 2005-2006 Florida is +55 goals at home and -158 on the road, for a net of differential 213. That's 8th in the NHL (Winnipeg* extrapolated, Calgary, Anaheim, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, and Washington.)

Working on looking at teams that played Away/Home back to backs, meaning that in that second game both teams traveled the night before. What I'm hoping this will do is largely eliminate the fatigue/travel aspect of home field advantage and isolate the familiarity/crowd aspects. So far the travel-neutral home winning pct. is slightly below but comparable to the overall NHL home winning pct.

Ya know, if you're interested.

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04-12-2013, 01:37 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by DrMom9900 View Post
I'd say our crowd has one of the lowest hockey IQ crowds of any hockey team. You find very few actual hockey fans at panther games, when you do they are usually donning the visiting teams jersey. While there are a handful of very avid, loyal hockey fans that attend these games, as a whole, the crowd is probably a factor in the perennial failure of this organization. No one likes playing HOCKEY here, sure the golf and surfing is great. But this is not a place to play hockey and feel like a hockey player. You can tell with the season records of this team. they are horrible. It is near impossible to get a chant started in the arena, unless the mindless drones just repeat what the schlumbo-tron is telling them to chant. All in all, the BB&T Center is a superb arena, unfortunately the fans that go with it are below average. 2/5
I don't even know where to start with this statement, but I guess I'll try to respond.

I have only been to a few Panther games but I've always had a great time when I've been, and unfortunately we have sucked for most of them.
I am from Toronto and I moved down here the same year we signed Jacques Martin, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, and Belfour, so it was pretty easy for me to lose interest in the Leafs and become a full-on Panthers fan.
I saw first hand that we have a solid Panthers fanbase here, although it might not be as loud and crazy as the teams up north , it is quite dedicated and intelligent.
You think that having tourists and casual fans filling up our arena is a bad thing, but I think it's great. Hopefully those people learn more about the Panthers and the game of hockey as a whole , and become fans like I did.

You also lost me when you said players wouldn't want to play hockey in S Fla. Just look at how many players have homes here, and imagine us being a yearly playoff contender. I wouldn't worry.

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04-12-2013, 07:44 PM
  #24
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I'd say our crowd has one of the lowest hockey IQ crowds of any hockey team. You find very few actual hockey fans at panther games, when you do they are usually donning the visiting teams jersey. While there are a handful of very avid, loyal hockey fans that attend these games, as a whole, the crowd is probably a factor in the perennial failure of this organization. No one likes playing HOCKEY here, sure the golf and surfing is great. But this is not a place to play hockey and feel like a hockey player. You can tell with the season records of this team. they are horrible. It is near impossible to get a chant started in the arena, unless the mindless drones just repeat what the schlumbo-tron is telling them to chant. All in all, the BB&T Center is a superb arena, unfortunately the fans that go with it are below average. 2/5
I do not think your post is very nice. I think I am a good fan! I go to every game!

Every game I sit in my seat drooling on myself until the Rat Pack tells me it's time to Get Loud! Then I start to clap and cheer! My mom tells me to stop because she says I look and sound like a drunken walrus. I don't care! She's just mad because the basement is a mess...and besides...I just get so excited! I keep cheering and cheering .... until the Rat Pack stops because there's another ad that someone needs to talk about. At least they don't stop when they are playing hockey!!! I don't mind missing that!

But then I hear the ad and I get very excited again! I find out that I can go on Say-vo-logie.com and save lots of money on stuff, but I never get the spelling quite right so I never save any money. It's almost as bad as the guy from Africa who promised me he would send me all this money, but just took the hundred dollars I had in my bank account. I didn't think that was very nice - especially since he was a prince! I don;t think he needed that money.

I also love it when they have the dance cam and I get to stand up and show everyone my awesome dance moves!!! I don't get to be on the jumbotron, and the lady next to me grabs her children and looks very worried, but one day I dream that I'll be famous and make it onto the big screen! I even wear one of those whole body colored things because I think they look cool!!! It's only a matter of time. It's just like Bill Lindsey says! You just need to aspirate to something and all your dreams will come to tuition!!!!


I've gotta go now - have a busy night ahead - I need to go buy some lottery tickets, vote for American idol and see what the Kardashians are up to!

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04-12-2013, 08:13 PM
  #25
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I do not think your post is very nice. I think I am a good fan! I go to every game!

Every game I sit in my seat drooling on myself until the Rat Pack tells me it's time to Get Loud! Then I start to clap and cheer! My mom tells me to stop because she says I look and sound like a drunken walrus. I don't care! She's just mad because the basement is a mess...and besides...I just get so excited! I keep cheering and cheering .... until the Rat Pack stops because there's another ad that someone needs to talk about. At least they don't stop when they are playing hockey!!! I don't mind missing that!

But then I hear the ad and I get very excited again! I find out that I can go on Say-vo-logie.com and save lots of money on stuff, but I never get the spelling quite right so I never save any money. It's almost as bad as the guy from Africa who promised me he would send me all this money, but just took the hundred dollars I had in my bank account. I didn't think that was very nice - especially since he was a prince! I don;t think he needed that money.

I also love it when they have the dance cam and I get to stand up and show everyone my awesome dance moves!!! I don't get to be on the jumbotron, and the lady next to me grabs her children and looks very worried, but one day I dream that I'll be famous and make it onto the big screen! I even wear one of those whole body colored things because I think they look cool!!! It's only a matter of time. It's just like Bill Lindsey says! You just need to aspirate to something and all your dreams will come to tuition!!!!


I've gotta go now - have a busy night ahead - I need to go buy some lottery tickets, vote for American idol and see what the Kardashians are up to!
probably the worst post i've ever seen.

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