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Plus/Minus Flyers vs Pens 2/20/13

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Old
02-21-2013, 02:58 AM
  #251
Killswitch7187
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+ Secondary Scoring. We need more of it if we want to go deep into the playoffs, and with Kennedy and Sutter both scoring, hopefully it's a sign for things to come with that third line. Kennedy has definitely been our worst forward all year, but hopefully that goal sparks him in general.

+ Sid. Only managed one point, but he definitely made a difference on the game. My only concern is how he is becoming predictably a "Pass-Only" player on the PP for the most part, and puts himself in awkward angles so he's not a scoring threat. Otherwise, amazing game out of him I thought all-around (Offensively, Faceoffs, Defensive awareness, etc.)

+ Glass. Say what you want about his lack-thereof-offensive-skills but when it comes to tough games like these, you can see his impact. He finished a lot of checks tonight and had a good bout with Simmonds. He'll never get the credit he deserves around here, but I think he was brought in just for these games against our rivals for toughness and wear down the opponents' defense.

= Malkin. Glad he finally got on the scoreboard, and he was just on fire in the third period, being more aggressive and less passive (Which is a good thing), however... he and Kunitz seem to retaliate at anything that gets under their skin. It's getting ridiculous, but at the same time, I still like that fire in Geno. He's been rather invisible 5-on-5 most nights in the season, but tonight was a different story.

- Vokoun. Just brutal goals given up. Now perhaps people will see what Vokoun truly is for this team. (Somebody who's here to just take some starts away from Fleury for fatigue reasons.) I like him, and he'll bounce back most definitely, but why people made a goalie controversy is beyond me.

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Old
02-21-2013, 03:39 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
TR, I'd like your opinion on this one: Does it look like all of this has dawned on Malkin and that, aside from the good shift or period here or there, he's just going through the motions pretty much?

As I wrote, it just looks so much like Sid at Therrien's end, where he was so consistently off and doing off the deep end stuff (the nuts shots with his stick) and looked so unlike himself 5 on 5.

I know that it's impossible for some to think, but I just don't think Geno is with, buys into, or has any real interest in what Dan Bylsma is selling him anymore.
To be honest I am not on the whole Geno mind games thing at all.
I think he is a mood player to a certain extent, but more than that he plays better when he is comfortable and the line is clicking just like everyone else would. I don't think we have any reason to say that Geno looks like he is tuning the coach out or looking for an out. Indeed, I think the vast majority of the time he tries to play within the system that Bylsma wants. It just isn't his game and thus he doesn't look like world beater Geno of the Crosby-less Penguins, because in those instances he gets A: top billing ice-time, B: a full compliment as regards his wingers, C: our best puck movers/D-pairing behind his line which facilitates a type of hockey that is more reliant on passing and skill than hustle and D: Bylsma is forced to trust him.

There is no excuse for that line being completely unproductive 5 on 5 as it has been, but I really do think that the biggest reason by far is that there is virtually not a single coaching device Bylsma could employ to go against what makes Geno the best he can be, that he isn't already riding like a mare.

Malkin taking penalties because he is frustrated happens also at the best of times. That isn't an argument that he is tuning Bylsma out, IMO.

In short I think you have every reason to be upset with the handling of Geno, but no real reason to get paranoid .
That said, if I was Geno.... your fears would be very much valid, but fortunately for the Pens I am much more of a 'me first' guy than Geno has ever shown indication of being.

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Old
02-21-2013, 04:13 AM
  #253
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Geno and Sutter are best Pens players tonight. Geno was best on a PP. A lot of times he kept puck in offensive zone, he was "flying" with the puck there.
I see it's not in here to critisize Sid sometimes, or you'll be added to ignore list . But after games like this I see Geno got bashed and Sid got free passes. I'm not saying Sid played poorly, but he could play better.

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02-21-2013, 05:04 AM
  #254
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What the hell is this? Crosby was f-ing flying out there.Only a true hater would give him a minus. He set up like ten chances.

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02-21-2013, 05:48 AM
  #255
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Oiler fan that wants to see Crosby win the Rocket and Art Ross. Disappointed he only got 1A for how he was playing.

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02-21-2013, 05:49 AM
  #256
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- It was a very painful game to watch. Things that occurred yesterday only happen against the Flyers. I wouldn't have wanted to relive the playoffs. Bylsma needs to get the mental and disciplinary things addressed.

+ We play again tomorrow and it's likely the guys will bounce back. Play tighter defense, be disciplined and we will get the W. Scoring has never been the problem.

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Old
02-21-2013, 05:59 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Saku11 View Post
What the hell is this? Crosby was f-ing flying out there.Only a true hater would give him a minus. He set up like ten chances.
I was banging my head for 10 minutes whenever he tried to pass over to Kunitz on that 2 on 1. He had plenty of room to get a good shot off there.

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02-21-2013, 06:58 AM
  #258
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You guys pretty much covered it all. But my 2 cents:

+ Entertainment. Even though we lost, what a fun game to watch. Pens/Flyers is the best rivalry in the league.

+ I can't really think of anyone that deserves a plus.

- Dan Bylsma. How much more does Shero and Mario need to see? Same mistakes over and over again. Martin has made the PP look great. So what happens in the 3rd when we need a goal? Kris 'Pump Fake' Letang replaces Martin. And Sigmund Freud would be hard pressed to find out why our 4th line kept going out there against the Giroux line. Don't even get me started on why TV started against Philly over a red hot MAF. Just embarrassing coaching.

- 4th line. Yeah, they shouldn't be out there against Philly's top line. But damn, they looked terrible. I know Vitale's a cult hero around here, but he's been invisible for weeks now.

- Bruce Orpic. Wanna know what Orpik's game is? I'll explain it. When a skater is along the boards, go out of your way to try laying a huge hit, thus leading to being badly out of position. When a guy is camped out in front of the net, position yourself at least 5 feet from him, and proceed to stroke your tool.

- Vokoun. That may have been the worst display of goaltending I've seen in years.

- Refs. I rarely complain about the officiating, but my God that was ugly. Allowing repeated charges, cross checks, etc, while calling phantom elbows? Not blowing whistles when TV is sitting on the puck? Joke.

- Instigator penalty. Want to know why everyone hates that stupid rule? This was the perfect example. A scrub idiot like Rinaldo runs amok all night. Engo tries to settle him down, and is called for a penalty. Rinaldo continues w/ his crap. the correct response would have been for us to start plastering Giroux into the boards, but apparently our guys feel Giroux is off limits or something, cause I haven't seen anyone lay a finger on him in 2 years.

- Drop passes, cross passes, etc. When is enough enough? Sid, Geno, Letang, etc. Will these guys ever learn? Apparently not.

- 7:38pm starts. I'm tired as hell today.

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Old
02-21-2013, 07:06 AM
  #259
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Malkin deserves his minus from everyone, but this is one of those clear cases where people Overrate sid, and underrate malkin.


Malkins dumb penalty (although he was getting abused for a while), and his 2 turnovers completely justify a minus.


Sid, the reason the guy has no points is cause he is forcing passes all over the ice. He had at least 4 golden opportunities to shoot the puck and passed in which most of them were broken up.

Man he was pissing me off and i'm usually level headed. Shoot the god damn puck sid... you have probably the 2nd best wrist shot on the team.... use it.


So...

- SID
- MALKIN
- LETANG
- ORPIK
- VOKOUN

+ MARTIN
+ SUTTER




I'd like to repeat, since I'm clearly a hater for thinking Sid gets a minus.... it' doesn't matter if hes flying around the ice, he produced nothing because of poor decisions with the puck. SHOOT THE PUCK

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Old
02-21-2013, 07:16 AM
  #260
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I really hope this team doesn't come out flat on friday. That seems to be this teams mo.

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02-21-2013, 07:21 AM
  #261
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Guys don't worry, I had a dream we got Iginla!!

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Old
02-21-2013, 07:24 AM
  #262
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I hate going to bed pissed off. I couldn't fall asleep until 11:30, and I got up for work at 5 am.

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02-21-2013, 07:27 AM
  #263
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Vokoun had a very shaky game, and I think a lot of it had to do with his defense letting Philly get in his face. Philly was right on top of him all night, and multiple times he was even run out of the net. Vokoun didn't play his best game, but I don't expect that from him very often. It just so happened in a game that was more important than most.

I still think Paul Martin has been a complete gem this season. So calm, so cool, so collected. People say, "Oh, he's overpaid by 500k." The guy has an impact at even strength, the powerplay, and the penalty kill. He's playing mistake free 25-30 mins a game. He's not overpaid a penny at the moment.

I think Kris Letang is the best 5-on-5 defenseman in the NHL, but his special teams play is just completely brutal. I have no idea how someone who can put points up seemingly at will is so terrible at playing the puck on the man advantage. That reason is why I would completely balk at giving him 7+ million dollars a year like many here want to give him. This team, even when Letang is paid big money, will need someone to QB the powerplay, and those guys typically cost a bit of money themselves.

I'm glad Brandon Sutter got rewarded tonight, as he's been doing the very little things in each game to help us. He's so good defensively. 80% of hockey fans will never notice some of the things he does.

I find it hilarious that the Flyers over the last 2-3 seasons (since Richards and Carter were traded), have flipped our own script on us. We used to get them so frustrated and upset, and they would take dumb penalties and get off their game because of it. We are now doing the same thing, and I think it's mainly because we can match them pound for pound anymore. We're not as tough as we used to be.

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Old
02-21-2013, 07:30 AM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by czwalga View Post
Malkin deserves his minus from everyone, but this is one of those clear cases where people Overrate sid, and underrate malkin.


Malkins dumb penalty (although he was getting abused for a while), and his 2 turnovers completely justify a minus.
I am sure no one here can possibly fault Malkin on the 3-5 goal which is the only one out of six Flyers tallies, that he was on the ice for.
So, despite these turnovers not hurting us, you mention two TO's...... I remember one on a PP where Talbot gets a SH breakaway.
Anyway, two plays that ultimately had no significance and the one instance he took a penalty... from which the Flyers did not score.... that is what you give a minus for in a game where he otherwise played like that? Like MT would say, Wow!

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Old
02-21-2013, 07:33 AM
  #265
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Geno is in a funk right now. You can see when he is. He's frustrated. I'm hoping he puts in a few in next couple games and maybe shake the funk off.

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02-21-2013, 07:35 AM
  #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
I am sure no one here can possibly fault Malkin on the 3-5 goal which is the only one out of six Flyers tallies, that he was on the ice for.
So, despite these turnovers not hurting us, you mention two TO's...... I remember one on a PP where Talbot gets a SH breakaway.
Anyway, two plays that ultimately had no significance and the one instance he took a penalty... from which the Flyers did not score.... that is what you give a minus for in a game where he otherwise played like that? Like MT would say, Wow!


Those plays can't happen... but I do see your point ultimately they had no effect, but they could have. He needs to be more disciplined.


I could see giving malkin an =. I thought he played pretty good but made like 3 poor decisions.


Crosby just needs to shoot the puck. Really malkin and crosby deserve about the same rating for this game, but all you see for the most part is people bashing geno and praising sid.

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Old
02-21-2013, 07:55 AM
  #267
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By this time, most have covered it. Vokoun was awful, even though he was hung out to dry a couple times and had no chance on the Nisky own goal. Pens were undisciplined. Reffing was bad (how is one cross check in the first period a penalty, but five or six in the third period is not a penalty), but Pens got away with a Neal trip on Talbot before the latter picked up the puck. Crosby looked fantastic except when he was passing too much., etc.

As entertaining as the game was, neither team is going anywhere in the playoffs. Both are about 4/5 in the conference, same as last year, same results in the playoffs unless something changes.

Hopefully, Pens come out pist against a weak Florida team and take care of business.

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Old
02-21-2013, 08:14 AM
  #268
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That sucked.

+Crosby. Besides the 2 on 1 mishap, he was flying. His teammates? MIA. Don't worry, they are both 20 goal scorers though. They will show up in the playoffs when it really matters.

+Crowd. Great crowd, especially the third. Building was rocking. People standing the entire 5 on 3, great atomosphere.

+PP. It was good. As it should always be.

+Letang, Martin. Thought they played decent tonight.

-Refs. Sorry, but it has to be brought up. They were blind. The Flyers were running every Penguin in sight, and what do ya know, no penalties. Just turn a blind eye to Rinaldo running Neal or whoever it was. But we touch them an its an automatic 2. Refs lost us this game as much as we did.

-Useage of Beau Bennett. I'll keep saying it so whatever. Me, you, your dog.. we've all been used on that 2nd line. So why not this kid?????? He has the pedigree! He has the talent, the hands, the POTENTIAL to be a HUGE relief to a terrrrrible winger situation. I think he might have gotten one shift with the big boys? He isn't doing anything on the third line, he isn't a grinder. He isn't a speedster. He has actual talent, put him with other, you know, actual TALENT.

-PK philosophy. Our PK was so soft, so passive, so terrible. We let the Flyers set up shop and do whatever the hell they want. With the talent they possess, its going to result in a goal more often than not. Which brings me to my main beef.. USE SID AND GENO ON THE PK. The Flyers use Giroux. Guess what, when Giroux is on the ice, there is a legit threat he could go the other way and make something happen. With us, it's Adams, Cooke, Dups.. come on. If you make a mistake and turn the puck over to them? Big deal. It's dumped out of the zone and you go and retreat and bring it right back in. I'm not saying use Sid and Geno for 2 minutes, I'm saying they need to be on the PK more.

-Vokoun. An absolute embarassment last night. I don't think one goal scored I could say, "hmm yea, that was a tough one." It was comical. I've never seen him play this poorly. Even on the first goal, what the hell is he doing by the red dot??? Then he's there, the puck is loose.. ******* bull through people and get the puck!!! Kinda side swiped a guy, fell awkawrdly and missed the puck, and it was in the back of the net. It was.. worst goaltending I've seen in quite some time. I'm hard on goalies, I'm always hard on MAF.. but tonight was just another level of awfulness.

-Geno. GROW UP BUDDY. Tired of this **** from our players. You, Kunitz, and Neal are at the top of this list, but come on dude. You're a superstar. Teams gameplan to this and you continue to fall for it.

-Orpik. Awful game.

-Bryzgalov. It is nice knowing the Flyers are going nowhere with this horrendous goalie in net. (maybe that should be a +?)

-Simmonds. Just because. You're a ******* ********. Was hoping Glass would have KOd you.

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Old
02-21-2013, 08:29 AM
  #269
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Disappointed to lose to the Flyers, always annoying.

Didn't get to see the game last night as my internet died at the moment it started. From the highlights I've seen - Vokoun wasn't good last night and was flopping around which gave them easy chances.

The most annoying thing is that whenever the Flyers seem to play us at the Consol - we lose. Even if we have a lead we blow it, got to get that mentality out.

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Old
02-21-2013, 08:46 AM
  #270
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I hate going to bed pissed off. I couldn't fall asleep until 11:30, and I got up for work at 5 am.
Don't be that guy. They've got over half the season to play.

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Old
02-21-2013, 08:50 AM
  #271
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The only thing I can hope is that the 5th time is a charm (actually probably the 12th/13th for blown 2 goal leads) and they start actually working on it.

I only say this to save my mind from exploding to the thought they keep making the same damn mistake.

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Old
02-21-2013, 09:05 AM
  #272
#66
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Don't be that guy. They've got over half the season to play.
I've been that guy for far to long. I'm making a 6 hour drive from NJ to Pittsburgh today for this weekends games and I didn't sleep at all.

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02-21-2013, 09:06 AM
  #273
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I'm sure he's asked before, but I don't know how you can look at the Malkin situation and not be worried. First of all, it's more sustained subpar at best play than I've seen from him even at points in 2010 or right before the knee injury. It just smells like a player who has tuned Bylsma out (as I said before, it looks like all the guys, even Sid, who tuned Therrien out by the end). Second, the Pens won't win **** with Geno going like this, even if the goaltending were better and even if Bylsma suddenly morphed into the second coming of Scotty Bowman. It's another mess on what's a pretty daunting list.
You are truly out there man

It's just funny how you turn everything around on someone else when Malkin sucks. First it's "his left wingers suck so what do you expect", "the system doesn't fit his style of play", and now it's "he's playing like **** to get the coach fired". Do you think about these things logically before you type them?

The first 2 at least have some merit. His left wingers DO suck and it's hard to get chemistry with the carousel at left wing. But to look at last night and this season and somehow conclude that Malkin is purposely playing like **** to fire Bylsma is lunacy. It's not like he isn't trying out there. If anything he's trying too hard and getting far too emotionally invested. He needs to simplify his game and focus on the little things. Coaching plays a big role in that, but at the end of the day, he's one of the best players in the world and he needs to act like it. I'm sorry KIRK, but this is on Geno.

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02-21-2013, 09:06 AM
  #274
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Bylsma starting vokoun was a bad choice. Even if we had won i would have felt it was tje wrong decison. Vokoun was a bit rusty (not hos fault because we went with a hot MAF and screwed the rotation). I woild have played the hot MAF yesterday and let vokoun face an easier game against florida tomorrow.

I really think Bylsma want MAF tp get the SO record and therefore leting him sit against flyers and gives him the easier start tomorow. I really cant find another explanation.

Dont like it at all!

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02-21-2013, 09:09 AM
  #275
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I can't believe how much Martin has changed from last season.

Big +++ for Martin once again. Awesome.

That said. Rest of the team sucks.

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