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Plus/Minus Flyers vs Pens 2/20/13

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:22 PM
  #51
PensFanSince1989
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Vokoun played awful, but its extremely hard for any goaltender to be feel confident and collected when playing behind the **** that is Philly-Pens games: not Vokoun, not Fleury, not Byzgalov, etc. and when that happens, goalies will start letting in bad goals because not only will they start doubting themselves but also the defence. Do I play the shooter and trust the d to take away the pass? Maybe I have to cheat off the post in case he's allowed to walk in front or pass through the paint? No goalie, for the Pens or Philly has played well when the games get like this, and I'm not sure there are many, if any, that would.

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02-20-2013, 10:22 PM
  #52
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How many more yrs are we going to need a respected vet? When it is time for them to grow up?
Yeah. The point of getting Gary Roberts was to show these young guys the way for years to come even after he'd be gone. Clearly too many kids on the team weren't paying attention back then.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:22 PM
  #53
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I was watching some takes on the lindy ruff firing and e.j hradek said an interesting thing. He said something along the lines of, sometimes when players feel something is going to happen they stop paying attention to the coach until the firing is made. Basically to show they cant take it...Now i dont know if it applies to us but just something to think about.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:23 PM
  #54
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---- #$^&ing big minus to Vokoun
---Orpik

Not really sure that I would give a minus to DB. Sure we lost our heads, and I guess he gets some blame for that. However, If Vokoun plays simply average, we win that game 5-2 and DBs gameplan doesn't look so bad.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:23 PM
  #55
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I agree with you there. It's a shame because I think Bylsma does a lot of good things but his lack of control over the team could kill us against teams that know how to exploit that. The Flyers are one, and I'd say Jersey is another.

Teams that know how to frustrate us just get us every time.
It's not a question of what Bylsma does well. It's not a question of whether the players like him or not. It's just that you look at it, as a whole, and can say pretty much nothing has changed since Bylsma put his stamp on this team. By his own admission, he was a caretaker during the cup run, the guy who benefited from being the anti-Therrien and who didn't put in his system with his guy (Granato) until AFTER the Pens won the cup. Even as sarcastic and doubtful as I am about the guy, I still keep hoping for the best. In 2010, it was the cup hangover and the goalie. In 2011, it was the injuries, despite the 3-1 series lead. In 2012, it was Sid wasn't himself and the goalie (although the other goalie was dog poop too). And then you go into this season, and it's the same **** rearing its ugly head when you get into those playoff style games with teams like New Jersey and Philly. It is what it is . . . either Shero deals with it or he doesn't. In the meantime, I'll watch the approaching train wreck and hope somehow, someway, by some miracle it doesn't happen.

Side Note: I think one of Bylsma's biggest mistakes was hiring his stooges as assistant coaches. Instead of Grananto and/or Reirden, he should have a guy on his staff to play the bad cop, and he should have a guy on his staff who is strong in the area where he's weakest, as a tactician. He didn't go that route, and the Pens have been paying for it since.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:23 PM
  #56
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+Crosby was dangerous even if he should've shot more.
+the score looks bad but in reality two of the Flyers goals were lucky bounces off Pens players, the game winner was a cheap flukey gift of a goal from the backup, and there may have been a goal that should've counted from that Bryz glove save. So it's not nearly as bad as it seems.
+I thought Martin and Niskanen impressed.
+this is more the Flyers screwing up but I felt the Pens were the more disciplined. That penalty box parade at the end kinda settled it for me.

-Vokoun gift of a game winner in the dying seconds.
-Malkin could've done more.
-A lot of players fall for it but some players fell into Rinaldos game a bit.

Neutral: Officiating. I felt like most if not all the penalties were gimmes like high sticks and the goal calls were called correctly. The Malkin-Couturier incident could've been called earlier on Couturier but aside from that I thought they did well.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:24 PM
  #57
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Its nice to see that so many fans are looking at Bylsma's coaching abilities with suspicion. But keep in mind that sometimes management & ownership in pro sports become stubborn and won't make a change even if it is the right call. That's why fan outrage and media critique become important because they speed along the necessary changes.
As frustrating as Bylsma is I do think he deserves another shot at the playoffs. But if it's yet another first round exit I don't see how you can justifying keeping him. If regular season success is the barometer that Shero judges a coach on then he might as well never fire Bylsma because I think just about any NHL coach could coach a team with Sid and Geno to a playoff spot.

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02-20-2013, 10:24 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Malkinstheman View Post
I was watching some takes on the lindy ruff firing and e.j hradek said an interesting thing. He said something along the lines of, sometimes when players feel something is going to happen they stop paying attention to the coach until the firing is made. Basically to show they cant take it...Now i dont know if it applies to us but just something to think about.
It doesn't apply to us. Bylsma being fired would be shocking because the team has a good record. Ruff's team was playing so terrible that it had to be expected. I could see players giving up on a coach in the Ruff situation which was basically like the MT situation. You knew a move would have to be made given the lack of results.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:25 PM
  #59
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11-4-1, Leads the East. MT's Habs. Alot less talent, too.
Therrien has a shelf life of course. But if the Pens play the Habs in the playoffs I would put my money on Therrien outcoaching Bylsma without a doubt.

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02-20-2013, 10:25 PM
  #60
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+ Malkin - Really finding his game, especially 5-on-5. Maturity and level-headedness you expect from a leader.

+ Neal - Along the same lines. Very physical, great 5-on-5, and never let the Flyers get in his head.

+ Crosby - The best player in the world understands that he has to keep passing up great scoring chances to feed Chris Kunitz, Pascal Dupuis, etc...

+ Tomas Vokoun - a calming presence back there. When things got ugly, he settled down and hung in there.

+ Brook Orpik - Stay at home defeseman stayed at home.

+ Simon Despres - and let that be a lesson to you

+ Vokoun, Orpik, Niskanen - So good at scoring you showed off your skills into your own net.

+ Bylsma - As I was told by boardin (i think that's his name) in the GDT: you can't question coaching. And why would you want to? He presses all the right buttons and has figured out just what to say and do to get his kids to settle down.

+ Officiating - one of the better games I've seen this year.

- Paul Martin - **** you, dude. **** you.
I actually said you don't need to be *****ing about bortuzzo starting, not necessary to second guess every personel move. Especially against the flyers when he is more physical.

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02-20-2013, 10:25 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
+ Malkin - Really finding his game, especially 5-on-5. Maturity and level-headedness you expect from a leader.

+ Neal - Along the same lines. Very physical, great 5-on-5, and never let the Flyers get in his head.

+ Crosby - The best player in the world understands that he has to keep passing up great scoring chances to feed Chris Kunitz, Pascal Dupuis, etc...

+ Tomas Vokoun - a calming presence back there. When things got ugly, he settled down and hung in there.

+ Brook Orpik - Stay at home defeseman stayed at home.

+ Simon Despres - and let that be a lesson to you

+ Vokoun, Orpik, Niskanen - So good at scoring you showed off your skills into your own net.

+ Bylsma - As I was told by boardin (i think that's his name) in the GDT: you can't question coaching. And why would you want to? He presses all the right buttons and has figured out just what to say and do to get his kids to settle down.

+ Officiating - one of the better games I've seen this year.

- Paul Martin - **** you, dude. **** you.
+ Fleury - would've only given up 4 tonight.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:26 PM
  #62
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Ignore the score. This team still has not learned how to beat the Flyers. You make simple smart plays and force them to defend. That's how the Devils beat them. That's your game plan going into this. If the players aren't listening, then changes need to be made.
That's the tricky part, isn't it. At some point, if the players keep doing the same **** again and again and again, then it means the coach isn't getting through.

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02-20-2013, 10:27 PM
  #63
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I actually said you don't need to be *****ing about bortuzzo starting, not necessary to second guess every personel move. Especially against the flyers when he is more physical.
Especially when he only got 8 mins of ice time while Brooks got 22 and was on the ice for 5 goals against.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:28 PM
  #64
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Not sure how anyone watching this game or our goals could give Orpik a + tonight. He was an abomination. Philly owned the area around the crease and behind the net all night. Martin has been covering for him a good portion of the year as well but tonight he couldn't hide Orpik's big bag of suck.

Really starting to question this guy's value to the team if this is how he plays when totally healthy and after a long lay off to recuperate from his injuries and whatnot. I think maybe he's taken too much of a beating over his career and he's slowing down earlier than most. This summer might be a good time to move him. Hard to find a replacement at the deadline for a guy like that so we're stuck with him for now but worth considering later.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:28 PM
  #65
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After calming down a bit... I am a firm believer that if we played this game 10 times, we would win 8 of them. A lot of Flyers goals were just bizarre. Pens scored solid goals, and could have had 4 more. The flyers buried most of their chances PLUS about 3 that shouldn't have gone in, and wouldn't have gone in on most nights.

What I think is masking this is the shenanigans that happened throughout the game. If Vokoun makes those routine saves we might be talking about how the Pens have improved to be able to deal with all that crap, and now win.

Still pissed though.
I was saying that going into last year's playoffs. As the old song goes, I won't be fooled again.

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02-20-2013, 10:28 PM
  #66
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I'd put my money on Carey Price outplaying our goalies. I don't trust our goalies more than anything.

I think MT, like a lot of coaches, learned a lot from being fired and stepping away for a while. He's probably a better coach today than he was with us. Same for Hitchcock after some of his hiatuses.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:28 PM
  #67
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Not sure how anyone watching this game or our goals could give Orpik a + tonight. He was an abomination. Philly owned the area around the crease and behind the net all night.
And that may have been the most redeeming quality of Orpik's game tonight.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:29 PM
  #68
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As far as coaching goes every coach has a shelf life and most of them are short. Flyers are at a similar point with Lavi. At least DB got you guys a Cup though.

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02-20-2013, 10:30 PM
  #69
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I was saying that going into last year's playoffs. As the old song goes, I won't be fooled again.
I know.... I was thinking the same thing as I was typing it. I guess I'm just trying to convince myself it's really the case this time.

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02-20-2013, 10:30 PM
  #70
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I actually said you don't need to be *****ing about bortuzzo starting, not necessary to second guess every personel move. Especially against the flyers when he is more physical.
Actually, that's not what you said. You said, "if Despres was the consensus better player, he would be starting. period."

I can't question that decision, because the coach would never start the inferior player. If you follow your thought process through logically (which I'm sure you have no problem doing) you'll see that you actually can't question any decision the coach makes, because he would obviously be making the best decision every time.


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Old
02-20-2013, 10:30 PM
  #71
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Therrien has a shelf life of course. But if the Pens play the Habs in the playoffs I would put my money on Therrien outcoaching Bylsma without a doubt.
You'd be making the smart bet.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:31 PM
  #72
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I feel so bad for Vokoun. That was a real heart-breaking game. I thought it was a good coaching decision to call Vokoun's number tonight and show why we got a Vet back up. He just laid an egg on this one and it hurts.

- I'm not blaming Dan Bylsma for the players getting caught up in the drama of the Flyers. I'm blaming the players. There is no way they don't tell Geno to calm the **** down otu there yet he becomes an idiot once again.

- I am going to blame Dan when it comes to WTF moments that I don't have answers for. We are at home and he puts the 4th line out against Giroux's line. What the **** are you thinking? That's the only group that can kill us over and over again and they gained momentum. What are you thinking?!

Just a frustrating loss. We have lost to them 5 times after being up 2 goals. That's on everyone. Coaches, players, management, etc. need to figure that the **** out IMMEDIATELY.

Heartbreaking loss. That's all I can say. Really sucks.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:31 PM
  #73
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I agree. This "veteran presence" BS has to stop. We're not bunch of 23 year olds anymore.
I don't even buy the stabilizing presence thing, either.

At least not with Iginla, when things haven't gone his team's way in key games, he's lost his mind exactly like the Pens have against Philly.

The only difference is instead of complaining about his lack of composure you get "aw shucks, what a leader! he sure hates to lose!"

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:32 PM
  #74
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As far as coaching goes every coach has a shelf life and most of them are short. Flyers are at a similar point with Lavi. At least DB got you guys a Cup though.
Sometimes I think the only reason you keep him around is because he always puts the stake through Pittsburgh's heart.

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02-20-2013, 10:33 PM
  #75
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Not sure how anyone watching this game or our goals could give Orpik a + tonight. He was an abomination. Philly owned the area around the crease and behind the net all night. Martin has been covering for him a good portion of the year as well but tonight he couldn't hide Orpik's big bag of suck.

Really starting to question this guy's value to the team if this is how he plays when totally healthy and after a long lay off to recuperate from his injuries and whatnot. I think maybe he's taken too much of a beating over his career and he's slowing down earlier than most. This summer might be a good time to move him. Hard to find a replacement at the deadline for a guy like that so we're stuck with him for now but worth considering later.
Looked exactly the same as the playoffs vs the Flyers last year. Even in the game vs Buffalo, he was leaning on Vanek in the crease and allowed him to get a point blank shot off.

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