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Plus/Minus Flyers vs Pens 2/20/13

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:33 PM
  #76
KIRK
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Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
- Tomas Vokoun, WTF was that? Why was he not pulled? He had no confidence in the 3rd period

-Malkin: ENOUGH with the horrible penalties. Seriously, you lack any discipline. You have been an average player at even strength. Again, your points came on the PP

-Orpik played horrible. He is a shell of his former self, I want him traded this year before he loses all value. He used to be my favorite Pens player, no more. He's done.

-Sid, Dupuis and Kunitz -3, but that line looked good in the first period, kind of looked less effective in the 2nd and 3rd period

-Bylsma - you start your backup goalie against philly so that your starter can be rested to play Florida???????????? Are you effing kidding me. Yes, those Florida Panthers who are only 1 point out of last place

+ The pens were persistent, they never really gave up despite being down big in the 3rd

Beau Bennett is not working out, you see a nice play every now and then, but he should not be playing in the NHL this year. Shero has exhausted all in-house options. Lets not ruin his confidence, send him back to the AHL for the remainder of the year to gain some confidence.

Shero you've throw enough **** at the wall, nothing has stuck.

- If we play Philly, Boston or New Jersey in the playoffs, we're in serious trouble.
You know, if I didn't know any better (i.e., that Malkin loves the coach, the system, etc), then I'd say that Malkin has been so consistently subpar or even bad this season that he's playing like a guy single-handedly trying to get the coach fired.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:33 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
As far as coaching goes every coach has a shelf life and most of them are short. Flyers are at a similar point with Lavi. At least DB got you guys a Cup though.
It's really weird because it seems like DB has actually regressed a bit as a coach or maybe it just speaks to the right guy at the right time type of thing. He was the right guy at the right time for that 2009 team but times change. MT who was totally opposite of DB was the right guy at the right time for the 2008 team just a year earlier and quickly became the wrong guy.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:33 PM
  #78
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So many points to discuss, but the first 2 goals by the Flyers were a result of turnovers. They amped up the pressure and the Pens went into passive mode.

I would love to see the Pens realize the other team is coming hard and take their intensity to another level.

These 2 will destroy each other again in the playoffs and the winner will again struggle in the next round.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:34 PM
  #79
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+'s

- The PP. In honesty, it wasn't that bad. But there was no excuse to not cash in on the 5on3's at the end when the game in on the line. It moved well though and was executed decently.

- Crosberry. He was awesome tonight...but he HAS to start shooting the puck. He just has to.

- Martin. He played another really good game.

- Sutter and TK. Invisible for the most part but scored big goals tonight.

-'s

- Malkin. Nice shots on the PP...but his game has been garbage lately.

- Kunitz and Dupuis. Not their best time to have a meh game with Sid flying.

- 4th line. Invisible for the most part and got dominated by Philly's top line.

- Letang. Awful game...just awful. He's a PP blackhole and he gifted the puck to 3 Flyers at the end during the 6 man attack. TV is #1 for losing the game, but Letang is a close #2.

- Bylsma. Completely outcoached AGAIN. This is a chronic problem since he got here with him having ZERO ability to get star players away from the opposing teams favorable matchups. Happened against Detroit, happened big time against Montreal, happened against Philly last year. Dan...is Couturier dominating Malkin? Yeah? THEN GET HIM THE F AWAY FROM HIM! Complete inability to make adjustments. How Shero and Mario are not fuming about this...is unbelievable to me.

- Vokoun. I could tear into him...but whats the point. You all saw the game.

- Discipline. We had none this game. We play right into the hands of the Cryers every damn time.

- Officiating. Bad. Just Bad.

Other's

- Here's something interesting...4 of Philly's goals were **** goals. All of ours were legit. Philly needed those ****, garbage goals to beat us. We had two called back.

- As bad as Vokoun was, I'm still happy to have him over Johnson. Every goalie has a bad game. I'm not down and out with Vokoun just yet.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:34 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I feel so bad for Vokoun. That was a real heart-breaking game. I thought it was a good coaching decision to call Vokoun's number tonight and show why we got a Vet back up. He just laid an egg on this one and it hurts.

- I'm not blaming Dan Bylsma for the players getting caught up in the drama of the Flyers. I'm blaming the players. There is no way they don't tell Geno to calm the **** down otu there yet he becomes an idiot once again.

- I am going to blame Dan when it comes to WTF moments that I don't have answers for. We are at home and he puts the 4th line out against Giroux's line. What the **** are you thinking? That's the only group that can kill us over and over again and they gained momentum. What are you thinking?!

Just a frustrating loss. We have lost to them 5 times after being up 2 goals. That's on everyone. Coaches, players, management, etc. need to figure that the **** out IMMEDIATELY.

Heartbreaking loss. That's all I can say. Really sucks.
C'mon, Cole, you know better than that. The Pens will win their next three, and all will be well again.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:35 PM
  #81
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according to Grove and ol' 29er everything will be fine, so don't worry. It will be OK.

on a serious note, is it me or this Flyers team has not impressed me nearly as much as they did last year. Two teams full of holes. Difference: Bryz 27saves-32, TV 26-32.

I mean, Kuni and Geno missed two or three great chances at the end it could have been the win and everything would be fine.
And I will not stop *****ing about Orpik, it's just amazing to me that he is considered tough and strong guy. He cannot move any strong center that camps in front, he is out of position etc...
and you must score on that 5 on 3 again they had 50 seconds left,

I know that CW tells you Letang is great but boy he just seems lost 5 on 4

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:36 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Not sure how anyone watching this game or our goals could give Orpik a + tonight. He was an abomination. Philly owned the area around the crease and behind the net all night. Martin has been covering for him a good portion of the year as well but tonight he couldn't hide Orpik's big bag of suck.

Really starting to question this guy's value to the team if this is how he plays when totally healthy and after a long lay off to recuperate from his injuries and whatnot. I think maybe he's taken too much of a beating over his career and he's slowing down earlier than most. This summer might be a good time to move him. Hard to find a replacement at the deadline for a guy like that so we're stuck with him for now but worth considering later.
I didn't see anyone else give Orpik a plus, so if you're referring to me, my plus (and my entire post) was 100% sarcastic

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02-20-2013, 10:36 PM
  #83
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KIRK has created such an atmosphere of sarcasm in these post game threads that I don't even know who I am anymore. The world's gone topsy turvy.

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02-20-2013, 10:36 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I agree. This "veteran presence" BS has to stop. We're not bunch of 23 year olds anymore.
Agreed.

Crosby's 8th season.

Malkin's 7th

Fleury's 9th

Letang's 6th

Kunitz, Dupuis, Cooke, Orpik, Martin, etc. have all been around for a long time. They don't need a Gary Roberts or Bill Guerin. They have the manpower, someone in house needs to be that vet.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:37 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by vodeni View Post
according to Grove and ol' 29er everything will be fine, so don't worry. It will be OK.

on a serious note, is it me or this Flyers team has not impressed me nearly as much as they did last year. Two teams full of holes. Difference: Bryz 27saves-32, TV 26-32.

I mean, Kuni and Geno missed two or three great chances at the end it could have been the win and everything would be fine.
And I will not stop *****ing about Orpik, it's just amazing to me that he is considered tough and strong guy. He cannot move any strong center that camps in front, he is out of position etc...
and you must score on that 5 on 3 again they had 50 seconds left,

I know that CW tells you Letang is great but boy he just seems lost 5 on 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo4OnQpwjkc

Bob Marley agree's from beyond the grave.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:37 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I feel so bad for Vokoun. That was a real heart-breaking game. I thought it was a good coaching decision to call Vokoun's number tonight and show why we got a Vet back up. He just laid an egg on this one and it hurts.

- I'm not blaming Dan Bylsma for the players getting caught up in the drama of the Flyers. I'm blaming the players. There is no way they don't tell Geno to calm the **** down otu there yet he becomes an idiot once again.

- I am going to blame Dan when it comes to WTF moments that I don't have answers for. We are at home and he puts the 4th line out against Giroux's line. What the **** are you thinking? That's the only group that can kill us over and over again and they gained momentum. What are you thinking?!

Just a frustrating loss. We have lost to them 5 times after being up 2 goals. That's on everyone. Coaches, players, management, etc. need to figure that the **** out IMMEDIATELY.

Heartbreaking loss. That's all I can say. Really sucks.
You can tell Geno to do something until you're blue in the face, but until there is real accountability for team killing mistakes, nothing will change.

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02-20-2013, 10:37 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
It's really weird because it seems like DB has actually regressed a bit as a coach or maybe it just speaks to the right guy at the right time type of thing. He was the right guy at the right time for that 2009 team but times change. MT who was totally opposite of DB was the right guy at the right time for the 2008 team just a year earlier and quickly became the wrong guy.
But, that's how it always works with coaches.

I will say this again though: When the Pens won the cup and Fitzie went back to the front office, I do wonder how things might have been different if Bylsma had hired a bad cop/excellent tactician to help in areas that really aren't Bylsma's thing instead of McMahon's third stooge Tony Granato to accentuate Bylsma's weaknesses. Oh well, what might have been . . .

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02-20-2013, 10:38 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
KIRK has created such an atmosphere of sarcasm in these post game threads that I don't even know who I am anymore. The world's gone topsy turvy.
He's a faker, like that baby Crosbaby.

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02-20-2013, 10:38 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
As far as coaching goes every coach has a shelf life and most of them are short. Flyers are at a similar point with Lavi. At least DB got you guys a Cup though.
Flyers have been cut & pasted by Holmgren but Bylsma has a core of players that have won the cup in the past together and are going into their prime years but probably because Bylsma has no real talent to be a head coach in the NHL, the franchise is now just spinning its wheels under the false assumption that Bylsma has got the tire chains.

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02-20-2013, 10:38 PM
  #90
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I still think part of the problem is a lot of the core "grew up" together. Might be hard for the Captain to get in the face of 71 or 58. Not excusing it, it's his job, but...

Was Shero at the Blues - Avs game tonight? I swear I read that, but I can't find it on the internets anywhere.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:38 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I feel so bad for Vokoun. That was a real heart-breaking game. I thought it was a good coaching decision to call Vokoun's number tonight and show why we got a Vet back up. He just laid an egg on this one and it hurts.

- I'm not blaming Dan Bylsma for the players getting caught up in the drama of the Flyers. I'm blaming the players. There is no way they don't tell Geno to calm the **** down otu there yet he becomes an idiot once again.

- I am going to blame Dan when it comes to WTF moments that I don't have answers for. We are at home and he puts the 4th line out against Giroux's line. What the **** are you thinking? That's the only group that can kill us over and over again and they gained momentum. What are you thinking?!

Just a frustrating loss. We have lost to them 5 times after being up 2 goals. That's on everyone. Coaches, players, management, etc. need to figure that the **** out IMMEDIATELY.

Heartbreaking loss. That's all I can say. Really sucks.
they only had 8 months to figure it out, what does it tell you that they gonna figure it out now on a fly????

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:39 PM
  #92
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I agree with this to an extent, but the people calling for Bylsma's head now are the same people who were calling for Therrien's head a few years ago. And they'll be the same people calling for any new coach's head a few years after he's brought in.

I get that we're all frustrated about the loss and, certainly, Bylsma has his shortcomings, but not everything is about coaching. Do these professional hockey players really need to be coached not to take dumb penalties? Do the goalies need to be coached not to give up ridiculously soft goals? Do they need to be coached to not pass up wide open looks at the net? We lost this game because our players got suckered into an emotional battle, got terrible goaltending and didn't execute the chances they had.

To be clear, I'm not absolving Bylsma here. I do think he has his shortcomings. But at some point the blame has to come down on the players executing too.
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HC. Dan Blysma: I run my unit how I run my unit. You want to investigate me, roll the dice and take your chances. I eat breakfast 1 yard from 18,287 fans who are trained to boo me, so don't think for one second that you can come down here, flash a badge, and make me nervous.
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GM. Ray Shero: [to HC. Blysma] Dan, you're in charge. Geno doesn't make 4646 on his next Proficiency and Conduct Report, and I'm going to blame you. And then, I'm going to not fire you.
Haha.

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02-20-2013, 10:39 PM
  #93
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If we can't get rid of bylsma to shake up the team( let's be realistic, it simply isn't happening..a team near the top of conference is stuck with their coach ) then what about using Orpik as the piece that lands us our coveted winger? Like it has been pointed out, in these playoff type games...Orpik gets exposed. We've already seen it in recent years.

The talk has been we can't get rid of him now because it would only make us worse( I'm sure most are fine with trade in offseason) and I did agree with that . But once again, we saw how useless he was in these types of games. Now, if other teams didn't value him so much( value is higher than what we see him as...based on past and what he " could" provide for a contending team " ) then I would not even question trading him now. But if he's not going to be much of help in playoffs( not saying this is written in stone, but we've been seeing it far too often now) then why not take advantage?

That could also be the shakeup this team needs. Just a thought

Orpik for Stewart straight up. Makes sense for both. Then prospects/picks for Iginla. Add veteran D


Last edited by WarriorScholar: 02-20-2013 at 10:45 PM.
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Old
02-20-2013, 10:40 PM
  #94
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C'mon, Cole, you know better than that. The Pens will win their next three, and all will be well again.
Until the playoffs of course! Then the cycle can start all over!

General thoughts:

Vokoun's game stung tonight. I've always liked him and he's been so solid so far this season, I don't know that I've ever seen him spinning around like a top so many times like tonight. If anything he looks technically sound if unspectacular, not wonky and losing track of the puck.

Yeah the players are idiots but you know the coach is to blame too. It has to be obvious to everyone that since the Flyers series last season the team has been undisciplined. Malkin is the same as ever, Crosby has improved but still hasn't shaken it entirely, and Neal literally just does whatever the hell he wants and doesn't seem to care at all how many stupid penalties he takes. The coach isn't getting it done in this facet of his job sorry.

When "Not Rinaldo" hit Bortuzzo in the back after their timeout, we had them right where we wanted them. Just be above it all and let them implode. Oh the irony.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:40 PM
  #95
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+ Crosby, sure he made a few mistakes with the puck but he still looks like the best player in the world, he needs some support on ES
+ Pens PP, especially first one, best puck support i've seen on a pens PP in two years was that first PP
+ Engo, dude took a beating
+ Team came back and tied it

= DB - I know you want to blame the coach for them retaliating and letting off the gas, but I really don't think it's his fault. He called a timeout at the right time, seems to be preaching puck support on the PP, and did a few subtle things I liked like putting Crosby out on PK for faceoffs. That being said, 4th line against giroux's line 3x at home is unacceptable. The first of these shifts was the one that killed momentum. Playing Vokoun and not pulling him was bizarre

- Orpik - 5 GA, looked flat footed on all of them
- Malkin/Neal - Embarassing, dumb penalties
- Refs. Adams penalty was killer and the rest wasn't called much better
--- Vokoun - slow and flopped around an all day. Everyone has a bad game, clearly his worst in a pens uniform
-------------- Everyone here saying "we lose" when it was 2-2, "game over" at 3-2, "Trade everyone" at 4-2. and completely losing their **** when we lost. I get it, its annoying to see that same script against Philly. We have a good hockey team and one loss to a desperate rival is not the end of the world. We are 7-3 in our last 10. We were a starting goalie away from a point today and there is a lot of time before the deadline and the playoffs. Support your team and quit being so dramatic

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:41 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
You can tell Geno to do something until you're blue in the face, but until there is real accountability for team killing mistakes, nothing will change.
Honest question: Does Malkin even look like a guy who gives a flying **** right now? I mean it. When all those guys were playing like guys four years ago trying to get Therrien fired, where they were so subpar or just flat out bad, Sid included by the end and with Orpik as the initial instigator, that it was obvious for a month before Shero did anything. Can you tell me that there's any difference versus how Malkin is playing for Bylsma now? Tell me why he doesn't look like a guy trying to get his coach fired the way he's playing. This might be worse on a sustained level than it's ever been for Bylsma, which is pretty scary when you consider some of those pre knee injury games.

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02-20-2013, 10:41 PM
  #97
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Does anyone else think the pens need to speak with a sports psychiatrist before they play philly again? I think its mainly malkin neal and letang who have a problem controlling their emotion.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:42 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by vodeni View Post
according to Grove and ol' 29er everything will be fine, so don't worry. It will be OK.

on a serious note, is it me or this Flyers team has not impressed me nearly as much as they did last year. Two teams full of holes. Difference: Bryz 27saves-32, TV 26-32.

I mean, Kuni and Geno missed two or three great chances at the end it could have been the win and everything would be fine.
And I will not stop *****ing about Orpik, it's just amazing to me that he is considered tough and strong guy. He cannot move any strong center that camps in front, he is out of position etc...
and you must score on that 5 on 3 again they had 50 seconds left,

I know that CW tells you Letang is great but boy he just seems lost 5 on 4
Fortunately, he doesn't look as lost at 5 on 4 as he does at 5 on 3, so it's not all bad.

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02-20-2013, 10:43 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by cheesedanish87 View Post
Does anyone else think the pens need to speak with a sports psychiatrist before they play philly again? I think its mainly malkin neal and letang who have a problem of controlling their emotion.


Fire Granato and hire a psychiatrist as an assistant coach.

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02-20-2013, 10:44 PM
  #100
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KIRK has created such an atmosphere of sarcasm in these post game threads that I don't even know who I am anymore. The world's gone topsy turvy.
Oh c'mon, IcedCapp gift wrapped his post in more sarcasm than I put in two dozen posts. You can't blame me if you took it seriously.

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