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Plus/Minus Flyers vs Pens 2/20/13

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:45 PM
  #101
zero8771
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Actually, that's not what you said. You said, "if Despres was the consensus better player, he would be starting. period."

I can't question that decision, because the coach would never start the inferior player. If you follow your thought process through logically (which I'm sure you have no problem doing) you'll see that you actually can't question any decision the coach makes, because he would obviously be making the best decision every time.

slippery slope. I didn't say he wouldn't start the "inferior" player. I said neither player is the consensus better or worse player at this point. This isn't NHL13, they don't have scores next to their name. They have strength's/weaknesses and I would think most would agree against a physical team you can see the logic in starting either.

And even if i did say that he would never start the inferior player, you can't extrapolate that to say I agree with every decision he made

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02-20-2013, 10:45 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Honest question: Does Malkin even look like a guy who gives a flying **** right now? I mean it. When all those guys were playing like guys four years ago trying to get Therrien fired, where they were so subpar or just flat out bad, Sid included by the end and with Orpik as the initial instigator, that it was obvious for a month before Shero did anything. Can you tell me that there's any difference versus how Malkin is playing for Bylsma now? Tell me why he doesn't look like a guy trying to get his coach fired the way he's playing. This might be worse on a sustained level than it's ever been for Bylsma, which is pretty scary when you consider some of those pre knee injury games.
That's why these Kulemin rumors might be true. Wouldn't be surprised that Ray Shero has asked Toronto about him for no other reason to get Malkin back on track.

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02-20-2013, 10:45 PM
  #103
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Fire Granato and hire a psychiatrist as an assistant coach.
Rick Tocchet would do. Heaven help the dumb *** player who takes an undisciplined penalty with him behind the bench as an assistant.

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02-20-2013, 10:45 PM
  #104
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For a Richard winner Crosby barely shoots

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:46 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by boardin087 View Post
slippery slope. I didn't say he wouldn't start the "inferior" player. I said neither player is the consensus better or worse player at this point. This isn't NHL13, they don't have scores next to their name. They have strength's/weaknesses and I would think most would agree against a physical team you can see the logic in starting either.

And even if i did say that he would never start the inferior player, you can't extrapolate that to say I agree with every decision he made
btw, pretty sure you just questioned Bylsma personnel decision to start, and not pull, Vokoun?

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02-20-2013, 10:47 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Honest question: Does Malkin even look like a guy who gives a flying **** right now? I mean it. When all those guys were playing like guys four years ago trying to get Therrien fired, where they were so subpar or just flat out bad, Sid included by the end and with Orpik as the initial instigator, that it was obvious for a month before Shero did anything. Can you tell me that there's any difference versus how Malkin is playing for Bylsma now? Tell me why he doesn't look like a guy trying to get his coach fired the way he's playing. This might be worse on a sustained level than it's ever been for Bylsma, which is pretty scary when you consider some of those pre knee injury games.
I don't think that's really Malkin's MO TBH. He's an emotional player. He sulks when things don't go his way. He gets pissed off and takes stupid penalties when calls aren't made in his favor. He feeds off of the emotion of the crowd and makes highlight reel type of plays. When he doesn't get the breaks to go his way he tries to press and do things on his own.

He was benched by Maurice during the lockout and what was the end result of that?

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:48 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Oh c'mon, IcedCapp gift wrapped his post in more sarcasm than I put in two dozen posts. You can't blame me if you took it seriously.
Leave me out of this!!!

I don't think Bylsma needs fired. I don't think anyone needs traded. Here's the big ****ing problem: this team is the best team in the league. When it ****ing wants to be. Seriously, they play 5 minute stretches, get 2 goal leads, and then just think, "WELL BOYS, JOBS DONE, LET'S HIT CANCUN!"

It's so ****ing infuriating. Play 60. Hell, play 40 and get a 5-goal lead and coast to the finish line. But stop with this 5 minutes on, 50 off, 5 on at the end.

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02-20-2013, 10:48 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by gordie View Post
That's why these Kulemin rumors might be true. Wouldn't be surprised that Ray Shero has asked Toronto about him for no other reason to get Malkin back on track.
I'm sure he's asked before, but I don't know how you can look at the Malkin situation and not be worried. First of all, it's more sustained subpar at best play than I've seen from him even at points in 2010 or right before the knee injury. It just smells like a player who has tuned Bylsma out (as I said before, it looks like all the guys, even Sid, who tuned Therrien out by the end). Second, the Pens won't win **** with Geno going like this, even if the goaltending were better and even if Bylsma suddenly morphed into the second coming of Scotty Bowman. It's another mess on what's a pretty daunting list.

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02-20-2013, 10:49 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Oh c'mon, IcedCapp gift wrapped his post in more sarcasm than I put in two dozen posts. You can't blame me if you took it seriously.
Oh I didn't. I just get a kick out of the incessant sarcasm. I get the impression that, without these little moments of sarcastic release, there might be violent crimes committed in your neighborhood.

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02-20-2013, 10:51 PM
  #110
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I'm more pissed off at this loss than last spring. It's sickening they're still making the same damn mistakes.

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02-20-2013, 10:52 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
btw, pretty sure you just questioned Bylsma personnel decision to start, and not pull, Vokoun?
I did. Fleury was hot and in my opinion the much better goalie. Plus we have a soft Florida game coming up. Not exactly the same as two rookie defensemen.

P.S I wish DB would be fired, I just don't see it happening and while I blame him for a lot of things, I really can't argue with benching of either Engo, Depres, Bortuzzo. All pretty equal to me

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02-20-2013, 10:53 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Leave me out of this!!!

I don't think Bylsma needs fired. I don't think anyone needs traded. Here's the big ****ing problem: this team is the best team in the league. When it ****ing wants to be. Seriously, they play 5 minute stretches, get 2 goal leads, and then just think, "WELL BOYS, JOBS DONE, LET'S HIT CANCUN!"

It's so ****ing infuriating. Play 60. Hell, play 40 and get a 5-goal lead and coast to the finish line. But stop with this 5 minutes on, 50 off, 5 on at the end.
I agree, I just think that this has been going on for so long that most people think the only way it ends is with a firing or trade

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02-20-2013, 10:54 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
I don't think that's really Malkin's MO TBH. He's an emotional player. He sulks when things don't go his way. He gets pissed off and takes stupid penalties when calls aren't made in his favor. He feeds off of the emotion of the crowd and makes highlight reel type of plays. When he doesn't get the breaks to go his way he tries to press and do things on his own.

He was benched by Maurice during the lockout and what was the end result of that?
Maurice started chucking him out in all kinds of defensive situations, he played bad *** defense, and his offensive game eventually flowed from that . . .

Somehow, methinks that, like a good lawyer, you knew the answer before asking the question.

And, by the way, I'm not saying Geno is deliberately playing like a guy who's trying to get DB fired. Not everyone is as premeditated transparent as Orpik was with Therrien. But, remember how Sid looked right before Therrien was fired . . . a lot like Geno now, where it was just subpar at best game after game. The spaz fests where he was spearing guys in the groin, if you remember. I'm not sure it's conscious. I'm not sure it's even subconscious. But, whatever the reason, it's just so off that it's a problem the coach needs to remedy immediately but somehow either doesn't recognize or can't remedy (Therrien used to ride Geno at the end to 'overcome' Sid being consistently off the same way Bylsma is riding Sid now to 'overcome' Geno being consistently off . . . and, again, I don't think it's 'hey, let's get this guy fired', but it's beyond a few bad games to a crisis point).


Last edited by KIRK: 02-20-2013 at 11:01 PM.
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Old
02-20-2013, 10:54 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I'm sure he's asked before, but I don't know how you can look at the Malkin situation and not be worried. First of all, it's more sustained subpar at best play than I've seen from him even at points in 2010 or right before the knee injury. It just smells like a player who has tuned Bylsma out (as I said before, it looks like all the guys, even Sid, who tuned Therrien out by the end). Second, the Pens won't win **** with Geno going like this, even if the goaltending were better and even if Bylsma suddenly morphed into the second coming of Scotty Bowman. It's another mess on what's a pretty daunting list.
A friend like Kulemin in the dressing room might just pick up Geno which in turn could pick up this team. As far as tuning out Bylsma. I believe the problem is these players are too close to him almost like another teammate, which is the big problem.

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Old
02-20-2013, 10:55 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by boardin087 View Post
I did. Fleury was hot and in my opinion the much better goalie. Plus we have a soft Florida game coming up. Not exactly the same as two rookie defensemen.

P.S I wish DB would be fired, I just don't see it happening and while I blame him for a lot of things, I really can't argue with benching of either Engo, Depres, Bortuzzo. All pretty equal to me
You seemed to have an issue with some things that were said during the game, so just for the record: I was upset that Despres was benched before the **** show started. I think Bortuzzo's game translate to being a #7 better than Despres. In other words, Despres has to keep playing to continue to grow the offensive side of his game.

Or, sit Engo and play both Bort and Despres. I'm OK with that, too.

AND COMPEL THE COACH TO STOP PLAYING THE LEGS OFF THE TOP-4 GUYS. Especially when #4 (44) is playing like crap on fire.

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02-20-2013, 10:55 PM
  #116
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To everybody wondering, shero being at the avs-blues game was just a joke

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02-20-2013, 10:55 PM
  #117
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If fairness , if fleury was the one who did this tonight then everybody would be saying " how could bylsma start Fleury, he was horrible against the flyers last April " . I'm not going to blame bylsma on that( there's other things I'm concerned with) because that's like blaming a manager for what pitcher he puts in....lose/lose situation . People will always blame a personnel decision after a loss

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02-20-2013, 10:56 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
You know, if I didn't know any better (i.e., that Malkin loves the coach, the system, etc), then I'd say that Malkin has been so consistently subpar or even bad this season that he's playing like a guy single-handedly trying to get the coach fired.
And you'd still be wrong.

That being said, I won't blame Geno for bad penalties and not "walking away"...

The problem with this stupid league is that even if he turns his back, we're assuming the other team is getting a penalty. They won't.

When they show a replay of him getting crosschecked 20 times, then gloved in the face, and he somehow gets a double minor for retaliating, that's when you know how bad it is.

There's only so much you can take as a player, and this "turn the other cheek" stuff sounds nice in theory, but in the end, it's not like the other team is going to get punished for initiating.

All you have to do is look at the Engelland penalty with Rinaldo. Really ref? You don't see #36 of all people pretending to drop his gloves?

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02-20-2013, 10:57 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Malkinstheman View Post
To everybody wondering, shero being at the avs-blues game was just a joke
Jerk! I spent 5 important minutes trying to find confirmation.

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02-20-2013, 10:58 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
You seemed to have an issue with some things that were said during the game, so just for the record: I was upset that Despres was benched before the **** show started. I think Bortuzzo's game translate to being a #7 better than Despres. In other words, Despres has to keep playing to continue to grow the offensive side of his game.

Or, sit Engo and play both Bort and Despres. I'm OK with that, too.

AND COMPEL THE COACH TO STOP PLAYING THE LEGS OFF THE TOP-4 GUYS. Especially when #4 (44) is playing like crap on fire.
Fair enough. I just get annoyed at hearing the sky is falling, I may not post a lot but I read a ton (too lazy to type on my phone and dont like to type too much during the game). May have been misplaced annoyance

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02-20-2013, 11:00 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Jerk! I spent 5 important minutes trying to find confirmation.
He was planning on it though. Then got confused about which game to go to....ROR/Stewart or Iginla. Decided to just stay patient as usual

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02-20-2013, 11:00 PM
  #122
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If fairness , if fleury was the one who did this tonight then everybody would be saying " how could bylsma start Fleury, he was horrible against the flyers last April " . I'm not going to blame bylsma on that( there's other things I'm concerned with) because that's like blaming a manager for what pitcher he puts in....lose/lose situation . People will always blame a personnel decision after a loss
Exactly. This game:

Fleury plays and wins: "Good call! Ride the hot hand!"

Fleury plays and loses: "Come on Bylsma! What's the point of having Vokoun? You knew Fleury was due for a bad game eventually!"

Vokoun plays and wins: "Great call! He was due to get in there and I knew he'd deliver!"

No need to write out the last possibility.

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02-20-2013, 11:02 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Goalsfordinner View Post
For a Richard winner Crosby barely shoots
He's on pace for 313 shots in a normal season. What do you want?

I know he passed up that one chance to shoot but for some reason it's stuck up people's ***** tonight more than any other time it's happened in the history of hockey.

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02-20-2013, 11:03 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by gordie View Post
A friend like Kulemin in the dressing room might just pick up Geno which in turn could pick up this team. As far as tuning out Bylsma. I believe the problem is these players are too close to him almost like another teammate, which is the big problem.
The former could be true. The latter, I agree, is true.

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02-20-2013, 11:03 PM
  #125
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Malkin made a few really good plays away from the puck tonight. One was on one of the later powerplays where he pressured a guy on the half wall after flying down from the point to keep the puck in the zone. I think too many people on this board base their opinions directly after what commentators and people on twitter say even though they are usually morons like mike milbury and jeremy roenick.

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