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Trade Rumours and Proposals: Part XXXV

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Old
02-27-2013, 07:30 AM
  #651
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Originally Posted by operasen View Post
Spezza may not be a first ballot Hall of Fame guy, but he will be in the discussion at some point if he keeps his work consistent. The guy is so important to our team in so many way. The fact that his creativity sometimes scares people is probably more to the fact that it scares them because they can not anticipate it. When he hhas people that understand how he plays he dominates. Every other team would love to have him on their roster. Its only some people here that don'y see his value.

Let's move Karlsson, replace Murray, dump MacLean, trade Spezza - the sky is (not) falling. And these guys and others are the blocks we are built on.

Spezza should be a Senator for life, and maybe go stand with Alfredsson in the Hall someday.


Look at how many of Karlsson's points were because of Spezza last year. He put a young team on his back and carried it into the playoffs with help from Karlsson and Anderson. Say what you want about Karlsson being the backbone of this team, but I would say Spezza is just as important if not moreso.

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Old
02-27-2013, 07:46 AM
  #652
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Spezza for new team captain and Alfie for new GM!!!

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02-27-2013, 07:48 AM
  #653
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post


Look at how many of Karlsson's points were because of Spezza last year. He put a young team on his back and carried it into the playoffs with help from Karlsson and Anderson. Say what you want about Karlsson being the backbone of this team, but I would say Spezza is just as important if not moreso.
Also look at heatleys stats after he was traded and Michaelk this year.

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02-27-2013, 08:03 AM
  #654
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Originally Posted by sensageddon View Post
Also look at heatleys stats after he was traded and Michaelk this year.
Also look at Spezza's stats once Heatley was traded - he is less than a ppg player since Heatley's departure (as is Heatley by a bigger margin). It was a two way street and in the end, Spezza's best years of his career will be as part of that line with Heatley (and vice versa).

Spezza a terrific and above average #1 center and we're lucky to have him. That said, the idea he is a top 5 center in the league wouldn't be shared by anyone outside of Ottawa, which is to say, if you remove the home town bias, he simply isn't considered in that class.

No shame in that - he still a tremendous talent. The idea of trading him is a very poor one, as I doubt Turris will ever be an above average top line center and we would be less of a team in the next 5 years without Spezza. Hopefully he has some healthy years ahead of him still.

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02-27-2013, 08:05 AM
  #655
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The fact that his creativity sometimes scares people is probably more to the fact that it scares them because they can not anticipate it.

Wow! Nice that someone notice that! Many of that passes going into "the nowhere" happend cause the recieving player did not read the play caus his hockey IQ is to low.

Spezzas Hockey IQ and Vision is so much higher than the rest of the Team. Only Karlsson and Alfie are near the same level of reading and anticipate the play.

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02-27-2013, 08:29 AM
  #656
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Sup Sens fans, props on your team being better then injuries, wow.

I was wondering as an Oilers fan your thoughts on a small deal for struggling players?

To Ott: Ryan Whitney

To Edm: Guilaume Latendresse

Whitney can still make a hell of a first pass and is decent on the PP, the Oilers get a bigger body.

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02-27-2013, 08:32 AM
  #657
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are you SURE you want latendresse?

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02-27-2013, 08:34 AM
  #658
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
I was wondering as an Oilers fan your thoughts on a small deal for struggling players?
Lose lose trade.

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02-27-2013, 08:35 AM
  #659
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are you SURE you want latendresse?
Are we sure we want Whitney?

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02-27-2013, 08:38 AM
  #660
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e) View Post
Also look at Spezza's stats once Heatley was traded - he is less than a ppg player since Heatley's departure (as is Heatley by a bigger margin). It was a two way street and in the end, Spezza's best years of his career will be as part of that line with Heatley (and vice versa).

Spezza a terrific and above average #1 center and we're lucky to have him. That said, the idea he is a top 5 center in the league wouldn't be shared by anyone outside of Ottawa, which is to say, if you remove the home town bias, he simply isn't considered in that class.
If you say so. I think last year was maybe his best year ever in the league. His most productive years were probably with that line, but he has become a more complete player and is now carrying a team as opposed to being one of the top players on it.

Also the idea that he is a top 5 centre is probably supported by his 6th overall in the Hart nominations last year. There are only 3 clear-cut better centres than him in the league -- Crosby, Malkin and Stamkos. After that you can make an argument for Spezza, especially due to his supporting cast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Sup Sens fans, props on your team being better then injuries, wow.

I was wondering as an Oilers fan your thoughts on a small deal for struggling players?

To Ott: Ryan Whitney

To Edm: Guilaume Latendresse

Whitney can still make a hell of a first pass and is decent on the PP, the Oilers get a bigger body.
I would do this.

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02-27-2013, 09:12 AM
  #661
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e) View Post
Also look at Spezza's stats once Heatley was traded - he is less than a ppg player since Heatley's departure (as is Heatley by a bigger margin). It was a two way street and in the end, Spezza's best years of his career will be as part of that line with Heatley (and vice versa).

Spezza a terrific and above average #1 center and we're lucky to have him. That said, the idea he is a top 5 center in the league wouldn't be shared by anyone outside of Ottawa, which is to say, if you remove the home town bias, he simply isn't considered in that class.

No shame in that - he still a tremendous talent. The idea of trading him is a very poor one, as I doubt Turris will ever be an above average top line center and we would be less of a team in the next 5 years without Spezza. Hopefully he has some healthy years ahead of him still.
If the sens were healthy right now they prolly would be at the top of the league. Im thinking next season they will have a good playoff run. Maybe even this year if Spezz gets back. With Mr Anderson anything is possible!!

edit: Wait a sec they already are at the top of the league. I thought they would be tanking by now.

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Old
02-27-2013, 09:31 AM
  #662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Sup Sens fans, props on your team being better then injuries, wow.

I was wondering as an Oilers fan your thoughts on a small deal for struggling players?

To Ott: Ryan Whitney

To Edm: Guilaume Latendresse


Whitney can still make a hell of a first pass and is decent on the PP, the Oilers get a bigger body.
Could be one of those ultra-rare trades where it is cancelled due to both players failing the physical.

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Old
02-27-2013, 10:02 AM
  #663
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Could be one of those ultra-rare trades where it is cancelled due to both players failing the physical.


Seems Latendresse isn't progressing either, it is quite likely he is done for the year.

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Old
02-27-2013, 10:08 AM
  #664
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
If you say so. I think last year was maybe his best year ever in the league. His most productive years were probably with that line, but he has become a more complete player and is now carrying a team as opposed to being one of the top players on it.

Also the idea that he is a top 5 centre is probably supported by his 6th overall in the Hart nominations last year. There are only 3 clear-cut better centres than him in the league -- Crosby, Malkin and Stamkos. After that you can make an argument for Spezza, especially due to his supporting cast.
Very much agree with this analysis.

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Old
02-27-2013, 10:11 AM
  #665
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
If you say so. I think last year was maybe his best year ever in the league. His most productive years were probably with that line, but he has become a more complete player and is now carrying a team as opposed to being one of the top players on it.

Also the idea that he is a top 5 centre is probably supported by his 6th overall in the Hart nominations last year. There are only 3 clear-cut better centres than him in the league -- Crosby, Malkin and Stamkos. After that you can make an argument for Spezza, especially due to his supporting cast.
I agree the errors at the blueline are less than ever, and he is now more of the guy CARRYING a line, versus complimenting it. I would agree he has not regressed offensively since his higher production years, but his ppg average now is likely more in line with his value, than when he was producing at a 100 point level.

And while you can make an argument for the top 5 center for no less than probably 20 different guys in the league after that top tier, if you polled GM's across the league to name their top 5 centermen, I doubt Spezza gets a vote. Guys like Toews, Sedin, Daysyuk, Staal, Kopitar and Tavares would all be well ahead. Giroux too, if you consider him a center.

In TSN's latest league-wide player ranking, Spezza was 23rd overall, but the 12th ranked center. That is probably about right (although a few of those centers jump between the wing and center). Still, it gives you an idea of how the league thinks centers are so valueable, by fact he is the 12th best center but still in the top 25 players league wide. Still reflects well on Spezz to be ranked where he is.

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02-27-2013, 10:33 AM
  #666
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Originally Posted by Officer Farva View Post
I'm all for team loyalty with Alfie, Phillips, and Neil. But in saying that, I think we would have been better off dealing Phillips 2 years ago during the firesale. I think we have guys (Gryba) who can play his role better. (Captain Hindsight) C'est La Vie...

All the same though, nothing wrong with loyalty over a 2nd round pick or equivalent.
Hope you aren't suggesting Gryba was ready for the NHL 2 years ago, because he definitely wasn't.

Rebuilding teams need veterans that have played the game at a high level to fill the mentorship/leadership roles.

While players like Phillips, Gonchar and Alfredsson may not be what they once were on the ice, they have been and are integral pieces in this rebuild.

Look no further than the Oilers, some of the best young talent in the game, but have been at or near the bottom of the league for years.

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02-27-2013, 10:35 AM
  #667
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e) View Post
I agree the errors at the blueline are less than ever, and he is now more of the guy CARRYING a line, versus complimenting it. I would agree he has not regressed offensively since his higher production years, but his ppg average now is likely more in line with his value, than when he was producing at a 100 point level.
Keep in mind who he is producing it with though. If he had the supporting cast of half of the 'top 10' centres he could easily still potentially put up those numbers. He's one of the most gifted offensive players in the league. I can't count how many times a year the linemates he has fail to read a play, or don't know how to react to his passes, or just flub a gifted goal.

Put him on a line with Perry, Sedin, Neal, Zetterberg, Hossa, Hartnell + Jagr, etc. and I guarantee his production would increase fairly noticeably.

Quote:
And while you can make an argument for the top 5 center for no less than probably 20 different guys in the league after that top tier, if you polled GM's across the league to name their top 5 centermen, I doubt Spezza gets a vote. Guys like Toews, Sedin, Daysyuk, Staal, Kopitar and Tavares would all be well ahead. Giroux too, if you consider him a center.
This is your opinion and you are welcome to it. However, again, coming off a season where he was 6th overall in Hart voting (most valuable player, period) I find it hard to believe he wouldn't even be mentioned in the top 5 centres in the league. He's better than guys like Toews, Sedin and Kopitar easily.

Quote:
In TSN's latest league-wide player ranking, Spezza was 23rd overall, but the 12th ranked center. That is probably about right (although a few of those centers jump between the wing and center). Still, it gives you an idea of how the league thinks centers are so valueable, by fact he is the 12th best center but still in the top 25 players league wide. Still reflects well on Spezz to be ranked where he is.
I don't put much if any stock into those TSN rankings based on a lot of players they had in weird spots. I don't really see how he is 'by fact' based on a TSN ranking...IIRC isn't that ranking based on fantasy value anyway (could be wrong, but the list I'm looking at has way too many weird placements)?

Again, you're talking about the guy that was 4th in league scoring, one of the best elite centremen at faceoffs, 6th overall for the Hart and has really embraced his leadership role. Then look at the forwards/team he plays with versus the other top scorers. You can mention Tavares, but Spezza is a more complete player and he doesn't have someone like Moulson who has ridiculous chemistry with Tavares.

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Old
02-27-2013, 10:42 AM
  #668
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Id trade Spezza for OEL. Then trade for ROR.
You make it sound so easy Benny!!

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02-27-2013, 10:45 AM
  #669
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The only reason phillips is still in the NHL is because of loyalty on the part of the organization. On any other team he would've been sent to the minors a long time ago. It just seems to me whenever I see replay footage of a defensive sens breakdown - number four is part of it, or the main cause of it.
Pure nonsense.

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02-27-2013, 10:49 AM
  #670
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Pure nonsense.
Phillips is quite the whipping boy around here. I remember him making plenty of very good plays this year. He's a rock solid guy who can eat minutes and is good for the room. He's definitely still an NHL calibre player albeit not a top 3 guy for us anymore more of a bottom 3 guy that can help stabilize our team with veteran leadership and experience.

It's funny though because Phillips is 4th of our active defencemen in TOI/G (was 4th with Karlsson in too) and leads the team in PK TOI (the 3rd best PK in the league).

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02-27-2013, 10:52 AM
  #671
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You make it sound so easy Benny!!
Its a gift.

your missing my point

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02-27-2013, 10:55 AM
  #672
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your missing my point
which is?

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02-27-2013, 11:02 AM
  #673
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Sup Sens fans, props on your team being better then injuries, wow.

I was wondering as an Oilers fan your thoughts on a small deal for struggling players?

To Ott: Ryan Whitney

To Edm: Guilaume Latendresse

Whitney can still make a hell of a first pass and is decent on the PP, the Oilers get a bigger body.
Right now he's still injured but Bryan Murray wouldn't trade him unless Lats said OK. He signed here because it is close to his son who lives in MTL and Bryan is a man of his word so I can't see him doing it.

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02-27-2013, 11:05 AM
  #674
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Phillips is quite the whipping boy around here. I remember him making plenty of very good plays this year. He's a rock solid guy who can eat minutes and is good for the room. He's definitely still an NHL calibre player albeit not a top 3 guy for us anymore more of a bottom 3 guy that can help stabilize our team with veteran leadership and experience.

It's funny though because Phillips is 4th of our active defencemen in TOI/G (was 4th with Karlsson in too) and leads the team in PK TOI (the 3rd best PK in the league).
Easy for some to forget that he wouldn't be playing those minutes with Karlsson and Cowen in the lineup. Convenient when people are railing on him all the time.

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02-27-2013, 11:16 AM
  #675
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Right now he's still injured but Bryan Murray wouldn't trade him unless Lats said OK. He signed here because it is close to his son who lives in MTL and Bryan is a man of his word so I can't see him doing it.
Apparently Lats was sent to the US for additional diagnoses/opinions, since there has been little progress with his injury.

History indicates these types of injuries have long recovers, then of course after rehab there is the time required to get into game shape.

I really think Lats playing anywhere this year is unlikely, so a trade won't be a point of discussion for Murray.

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