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Old
05-13-2013, 09:58 PM
  #151
S E P H
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Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
Ottawa are looking smater right now.
Well he didn't (or hasn't) given up on the Sens.

E: Also I am still loving your Dater "Aves r stupider and the other 29 teams are smterrrr!" attitude.

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05-13-2013, 10:01 PM
  #152
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Aves travel in a short bus.

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05-13-2013, 10:03 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Well he didn't (or hasn't) given up on the Sens.

E: Also I am still loving your Dater "Aves r stupider and the other 29 teams are smterrrr!" attitude.
Well there are other 28 teams that are better than us.

Did i congratulate you already for keeping your job? Nice done!

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05-13-2013, 10:03 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Well he didn't (or hasn't) given up on the Sens.

E: Also I am still loving your Dater "Aves r stupider and the other 29 teams are smterrrr!" attitude.
Wait till Lehner forces either a trade or Anderson into the back-up position. Then we'll see more of Anderson's attitude issues show up. Lehner and Bishop put up good numbers while Anderson was out and Lehner has so much potential.

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05-13-2013, 10:08 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
Well there are other 28 teams that are better than us.

Did i congratulate you already for keeping your job? Nice done!
And there are about 10-13 teams I would take our future and core over.

Again hindsight is 20/20 than just focusing on the negatives, but the world does need goths to survive.

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05-13-2013, 10:13 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
Less AAV does not equal less MONEY. He didn't take less money, he took more. There is no spinning things.

The Avs offered him a little more AAV, but he prefered the insurance of a longer deal, even if that meant less AVV. 7.5M is not more than 13M.
Continue ignoring what I said, which was over 2 years, the Avs' offer would have been worth more. Let's look at the first 2 years of his Sens contract vs the 2 years he would have been paid with the Avalanche.

Avs
3.75 per year

Sens
2.75 year 1
3.00 year 2

That looks like more to me.

Or let's use the AAV, the Avs still come out on top.

The bottom line, was that the Avs offered MORE MONEY on a shorter term deal, and AAV has to be considered since that's an important part of contract offers, and the Avs offered more in that regard as well.

Did the Avs only offer 2 years? Yes, did Anderson negotiate off of the original offer? If his people did we sure as hell never heard it, unlike what we heard from the O'Reilly negotiations this past summer (not just TPS, but people like McKenzie and Dreger were talking about it as well).

The original post never mentioned length, which you keep bringing up, and I am not denying that he's making more money, but he's getting that extra money for 2 more years of service. He could have made his money here by not playing like he didn't give a damn about the team, and then forced the Avs to pay him more or made even more money as a UFA.

Instead, he gets his offer, as far as we know never makes a counter, or if he did and was told that that was as high as the Avs would go at that time, then he should have played to his full capabilities, because it's quite obvious that he didn't because in the 33 games he played for the Avalanche in the 2010-11 season he amassed the following stats

33 GP, 3.28 GAA, .897 SV%

He gave the Avalanche NO CHOICE but to trade him because of his craptastic play. He didn't earn a long-term contract just based off of one good year. I can't believe that people here on this board have absolutely forgotten about how terrible he was in that last year for the Avalanche.

***EDIT***

I should try to clarify this. I'm not trying to come off as "attacking" you or anything iceberg, but it is clear that we are on different sides of the Anderson thing, we'll probably have to chalk this up to an "Agree to Disagree" situation, no hard feelings, and move on

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Old
05-13-2013, 10:22 PM
  #157
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LMAAOOOOO some people are still talking about Andy? Let it go bros he's gone.

Love him but love starlamov more.

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05-13-2013, 11:01 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
Continue ignoring what I said, which was over 2 years, the Avs' offer would have been worth more. Let's look at the first 2 years of his Sens contract vs the 2 years he would have been paid with the Avalanche.

Avs
3.75 per year

Sens
2.75 year 1
3.00 year 2

That looks like more to me.

Or let's use the AAV, the Avs still come out on top.

The bottom line, was that the Avs offered MORE MONEY on a shorter term deal, and AAV has to be considered since that's an important part of contract offers, and the Avs offered more in that regard as well.
Ignoring what you said?? I already acknowledged that the Avs offer had a bigger AAV. But that does not equal more money. He got around 13M instead of the 7M the Avs offered. How is that LESS MONEY???

Actually, comparing the two contracts makes no sense since they have nothing in common.

Quote:
Did the Avs only offer 2 years? Yes, did Anderson negotiate off of the original offer? If his people did we sure as hell never heard it, unlike what we heard from the O'Reilly negotiations this past summer (not just TPS, but people like McKenzie and Dreger were talking about it as well).
Do you really believe that he or his agent never negotiated with the Avs?? Do you REALLY believe that??? Do you believe that they never informed the Avs that they wanted a long term deal???

Quote:
The original post never mentioned length, which you keep bringing up, and I am not denying that he's making more money, but he's getting that extra money for 2 more years of service.
The original post said LESS MONEY, and that is just wrong. I mentioned the lenght because IIRC that was the reason why Anderson was so pissed. Because he felt like he deserved the trust from the Avs, the trust he ultimately got from the Senators.

Quote:
He could have made his money here by not playing like he didn't give a damn about the team, and then forced the Avs to pay him more or made even more money as a UFA.
He could, but that is his choise to make, not yours or mine. He wanted insurance and i don't blame him.

What happens if he gets hurt? What good does the AAV serves him then??

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05-13-2013, 11:11 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
And there are about 10-13 teams I would take our future and core over.

Again hindsight is 20/20 than just focusing on the negatives, but the world does need goths to survive.
Balance is key.

The same way you think i'm too negative, i also can't comprehend how one can only see the world through avs colored glasses.

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05-13-2013, 11:23 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
Ignoring what you said?? I already acknowledged that the Avs offer had a bigger AAV. But that does not equal more money. He got around 13M instead of the 7M the Avs offered. How is that LESS MONEY???

Actually, comparing the two contracts makes no sense since they have nothing in common.



Do you really believe that he or his agent never negotiated with the Avs?? Do you REALLY believe that??? Do you believe that they never informed the Avs that they wanted a long term deal???



The original post said LESS MONEY, and that is just wrong. I mentioned the lenght because IIRC that was the reason why Anderson was so pissed. Because he felt like he deserved the trust from the Avs, the trust he ultimately got from the Senators.



He could, but that is his choise to make, not yours or mine. He wanted insurance and i don't blame him.

What happens if he gets hurt? What good does the AAV serves him then??
*sigh*

if you say that the 2 contracts shouldn't be compared with one another, why are you comparing their values? Seems like you're trying to play both sides here.

Yes he's getting 13m, but over 4 years, the Avs was over 2, the only thing to compare in this case, since they're 2 different lengths and $ amount, would be the AAV, which again the Avs were higher, but you're so hung up on someone saying something that is accurate, but just not the complete truth, that you're attempting to make it out as if he lied, which he didn't.

For the record, I NEVER said that I didn't believe that Anderson tried to get more years from the Avs, I only said that we never heard it, I do think he attempted to get more years, but was told that 2 would be the max they'd go for now, which was the smarter move, because Anderson had never been a full-time #1 until he came to the Avs

I'm done with this, you think what you want to think, but you and I have contributed to the hijacking of this thread, and it ends now.

Again, for the record,I'm sure Anderson's people wanted more years from the Avs, but he sure as hell didn't earn it at all (before and during the season), so what ended up being their final offer was a more than fair 2 years, 7.5m deal, which would have been a significant raise based off of just 1 good (but not great, check his stats) year.

Again, Andy did nothing but pout and give up on the team. Is he playing well now for Ottawa? Sure, but he wasn't playing like this for them last season.

This is the end of the discussion in the Varlamov thread, feel free to move it to PM, but I have a feeling that we should just leave it as we're both on opposing sides in this issue

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05-13-2013, 11:51 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
*sigh*

if you say that the 2 contracts shouldn't be compared with one another, why are you comparing their values? Seems like you're trying to play both sides here.

Yes he's getting 13m, but over 4 years, the Avs was over 2, the only thing to compare in this case, since they're 2 different lengths and $ amount, would be the AAV, which again the Avs were higher, but you're so hung up on someone saying something that is accurate, but just not the complete truth, that you're attempting to make it out as if he lied, which he didn't.

For the record, I NEVER said that I didn't believe that Anderson tried to get more years from the Avs, I only said that we never heard it, I do think he attempted to get more years, but was told that 2 would be the max they'd go for now, which was the smarter move, because Anderson had never been a full-time #1 until he came to the Avs.

I'm done with this, you think what you want to think, but you and I have contributed to the hijacking of this thread, and it ends now.

Again, for the record, I'm sure Anderson's people wanted more years from the Avs, but he sure as hell didn't earn it at all (before and during the season), so what ended up being their final offer was a more than fair 2 years, 7.5m deal, which would have been a significant raise based off of just 1 good (but not great, check his stats) year.

Again, Andy did nothing but pout and give up on the team. Is he playing well now for Ottawa? Sure, but he wasn't playing like this for them last season.

This is the end of the discussion in the Varlamov thread, feel free to move it to PM, but I have a feeling that we should just leave it as we're both on opposing sides in this issue
This is my last reply so i hope you don't delete it.

You are hung up on the AAV, when it doesn't matter since Anderson was looking for the insurance of a long term deal.

You say that the original post was accurate, but it is was not. It would've been accurate if he had said "LESS AAV". How can something be accurate if it doesn't reflect the complete truth?

Whether Anderson deserved a long term deal or not is debatable. While you and Avs mgmt felt he didn't, the Senators had seen enough to commit to him.

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05-13-2013, 11:58 PM
  #162
Hans Landaskog
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Just my two cents. Higher AAV = more money. You have to take into consideration what his next contract would be in that same time frame. If his next contract was significantly less, you could argue he was paid less money, but I don't think Craig Anderson was in such a situation. One team or another would have picked him up. Fact is he was a little baby and pouted on the team with his poor play. Good Riddance. I can't wait till we can bury this ridiculous Anderson debate.

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05-14-2013, 12:05 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Hans Landaskog View Post
Just my two cents. Higher AAV = more money. You have to take into consideration what his next contract would be in that same time frame. If his next contract was significantly less, you could argue he was paid less money, but I don't think Craig Anderson was in such a situation. One team or another would have picked him up. Fact is he was a little baby and pouted on the team with his poor play. Good Riddance. I can't wait till we can bury this ridiculous Anderson debate.
That's easy to say when it's not you or me passing on the opportunity of making around 6 more millions of garanted money.

What happens if he takes the 2 year deal with a higher AAV and gets a serious injury or if he sucks so bad before signing his next deal??

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05-14-2013, 01:53 AM
  #164
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That's easy to say when it's not you or me passing on the opportunity of making around 6 more millions of garanted money.

What happens if he takes the 2 year deal with a higher AAV and gets a serious injury or if he sucks so bad before signing his next deal??
Every job has risks involved. I always try to maximize my potential income and maximize my time. For example, I'd rather work 1 hour and get paid $20 instead of working 3 hours and getting paid $30. Sure $30 is more than $20, but I could potentially make more than that another way with my other 2 hours. I understand where you are coming from with Anderson, but the way he handled it doesn't sit well with me. Not to mention we are talking about millions of dollars anyway. If he can't live off of that, then that's his own problem.

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05-14-2013, 09:11 AM
  #165
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Varlamov will grow with the team and he will hit his prime hopefully when the team does as well. That could still be 5 years from now. He's on a cheap contract, I don't see any problems. We have Pickard and Aittokallio for backups when Giggy can't get it done anymore.

Our goalie situation is healthier than it has been in 10 years, IMO

It's easy to compare our goalie who's had a bad season behind awful defense to a goalie we used to have 3-4 years ago who's now hit his prime and playing outstanding


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Old
05-14-2013, 09:28 AM
  #166
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Varlamov will grow with the team and he will hit his prime hopefully when the team does as well. That could still be 5 years from now. He's on a cheap contract, I don't see any problems. We have Pickard and Aittokallio for backups when Giggy can't get it done anymore.

Our goalie situation is healthier than it has been in 10 years, IMO

It's easy to compare our goalie who's had a bad season behind awful defense to a goalie we used to have 3-4 years ago who's now hit his prime and playing outstanding
Like I said before I have never trusted or believed in our current crop of goalies since Roy retired. With Varly at the helm, Jiggy backing him up and some exciting goaltending prospects I'm finally happy with our goaltending situation.

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05-14-2013, 07:30 PM
  #167
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Like I said before I have never trusted or believed in our current crop of goalies since Roy retired. With Varly at the helm, Jiggy backing him up and some exciting goaltending prospects I'm finally happy with our goaltending situation.
When you have one of the best goalie in the NHL history in your net for years , it's really hard for the others that will follow him to step in his shoes. No matter what they will do they will always have to deal with the shadow of the great one. It usually takes years for things to finally settle down . Plus , lets face it Guys with Roy's talent doesn't grow on trees, you usually have one in every generation .

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05-14-2013, 07:38 PM
  #168
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When you have one of the best goalie in the NHL history in your net for years , it's really hard for the others that will follow him to step in his shoes. No matter what they will do they will always have to deal with the shadow of the great one. It usually takes years for things to finally settle down . Plus , lets face it Guys with Roy's talent doesn't grow on trees, you usually have one in every generation .
That's true however Aebischer, Theodore, Budaj, Elliot, and Raycroft really made me depressed. I had no faith in any of them and I think we only won one playoff series since Roy left? Maybe two? You can't get close to Roy's talent but we've never had any goalie that played more then average and mostly played below average.

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05-14-2013, 08:22 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Gigantor The Goalie View Post
That's true however Aebischer, Theodore, Budaj, Elliot, and Raycroft really made me depressed. I had no faith in any of them and I think we only won one playoff series since Roy left? Maybe two? You can't get close to Roy's talent but we've never had any goalie that played more then average and mostly played below average.
Well, you're not exactly talking HHOF with that list

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05-14-2013, 09:03 PM
  #170
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Well, you're not exactly talking HHOF with that list
Exactly. Yet those have regrettably been our starters since Roy left. Does anyone know how many series' we've actually won since Roy left?

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05-14-2013, 09:14 PM
  #171
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I'm not going to bother trying to catch up on this thread. I'm just going to say that I still have full faith in Varly. With a decent D, he'll show what he can do.

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05-14-2013, 11:39 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Gigantor The Goalie View Post
That's true however Aebischer, Theodore, Budaj, Elliot, and Raycroft really made me depressed. I had no faith in any of them and I think we only won one playoff series since Roy left? Maybe two? You can't get close to Roy's talent but we've never had any goalie that played more then average and mostly played below average.
What, no love for Phillipe Sauve? Remember when they told us Sauve and Budaj were gonna backstop our cage for years to come? yah good times. Sauve might be the worse goalie I have ever seen play even worse then Dominic Roussel

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05-21-2013, 11:34 PM
  #173
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With our part time Goalie coach and abysmal defence he is around 15-20 but with even a decent team he can be around 10

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05-23-2013, 01:12 AM
  #174
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My two cents on Varlamov. He's a long way off, but the skill set he possesses leads me to believe he could be a top ten goaltender one day. He's certainly had stretches where he's played like it. Certainly the brightest star in the crease in the past decade.

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05-23-2013, 08:40 AM
  #175
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While everyone frets over ej and staz performance, I'm far more concerned about varly.

He's streaky at best and too prone to cataclysmic bad streaks. And as much as we bash on our d, it seemed like at least once a game he was letting in one or two softies that even suave would of had.

I'm not saying he's a bust but if we don't get a goalie coach for him soon I don't foresee much of a future, even with a fairly solid d.

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