Further, a logical return is Burmistrov (a pending RFA) plus a pick such as a 3rd (for example).
Essentially that means RFA for pending RFA. Winnipeg would likely be more than willing to take on the additional salary risk between the two players. That does not mean that they need to do a trade though; Colorado conversely seems to need to make a deal. Leverage: Winnipeg. We'll throw in a late pick or two to make it worth your while.
i would trade little before burmi to be honest.....in my opinion when burmi is little's age (25) he will be a far superior player....he also likes winnipeg, which is a huge consideration.
i would trade little before burmi to be honest.....in my opinion when burmi is little's age (25) he will be a far superior player....he also likes winnipeg, which is a huge consideration.
I don't see that ROR is marginally a better player now or certainly in the future. Even if he was that , you add bigger , younger , a tougher to play against player .
Colorado will only accept a step in player , so if Winnipeg feels that makes them better , it is a pretty easy deal imo.
i dont see a huge difference......and little is a good character guy...is o'reilly?
i agree that he might have more upside, but how much?...i'm sure when little scored 31 goals at age 21 people thought he had more upside than o'reilly does today.
Last edited by peter sullivan: 02-23-2013 at 10:13 PM.
Lets just we switched teams for a moment and switch the prospects as well and you guys had to trade ROR. I would gladly trade Trouba+Little for ROR+
I understand that a lot of you haven't been unable to watch ROR, but there is a lot of underestimating on the trade board. People calling ROR overrated are clearly two things. 1) A Leafs fan 2) Haven't watched him play and judging him by his stats.
i agree with the above posters who said that trouba is going nowhere.....we all think he is the next Bobby Orr because he had a great WJC (ironically when scheifele crapped the bed last year in the same tournament it was meaningless)...but the real reason is that he is Chevy's guy....i would be shocked if he was trade bait.
Scheifele is a more likely trade if prospects are bait....his OHL numbers are WAY better than o'reilly's were.
Lets just we switched teams for a moment and switch the prospects as well and you guys had to trade ROR. I would trade gladly trade Trouba+Little for ROR+
I understand that a lot of you haven't been unable to watch ROR, but there is a lot of underestimating on the trade board. People calling ROR overrated are clearly two things. 1) A Leafs fan 2) Haven't watched him play and judging him by his stats.
I've watched ROR plenty of times.... but not this season. In no way is he worth Trouba and Little given the current contractual holdout situation. Think of him as an option contract whose value is declining daily as it nears expiration. The longer he is out his value declines an equal amount. The list of buyers for your declining in value asset is narrowing as teams will soon have less to spend on players going forward and supply of available players is plausibly/likely to increase at the same time given the cap.
I've watched ROR plenty of times.... but not this season. In no way is he worth Trouba and Little given the current contractual holdout situation. Think of him as an option contract whose value is declining daily as it nears expiration. The longer he is out his value declines an equal amount. The list of buyers for your declining in value asset is narrowing as teams will soon have less to spend on players going forward and supply of available players is plausibly/likely to increase at the same time given the cap.
I think Little + Prospect or Pick for RoR is pretty fair value. Look back at the Turris trade (the last time a RFA wouldn't sign), they got David Rundblad and a 2nd back.
The situation is different, but Turris was a third overall pick and has huge offensive upside.
A player loses a lot of value when they're on the trading block and not signed and from what I've read Avs fans have might be over stating RoR's value a bit.
(Btw I was an Avs fan before the Jets came back, so I've seen a lot of RoR.)
i dont see a huge difference......and little is a good character guy...is o'reilly?
i agree that he might have more upside, but how much?...i'm sure when little scored 31 goals at age 21 people thought he had more upside than o'reilly does today.
If the Jets have legitimate interest then I presume they consider ROR a character guy . He plays to his 6-200 size consistently and is a better C than Little imo. Little has the ability to score 30 goals on the W if the situation is very positive, ROR provides much more away from the points imo.
You don't think Cheveldayoff values Little over ROR do you?
The issue at hand isn't that the Avalanche don't want to pay him like a #1 but want a return like he is a #1, as fans here and on the Trade Board have implied.
It's about the value of the 2nd Contract. More so because we just came out of a lockout. It's also about not setting a precedent that future Avs RFA's (and RFA's from other teams mind you) don't just hold out from what is perceived by the team as a fair offer, just to get more.
If an Offer Sheet were to come the Avs' way, I have no doubt that they'd match, because then they wouldn't be the bad guys around the league when it came to 2nd Contracts, and they'd be able to "save face" so to speak when they were in future negotiations by saying "Our hands were tied, there was an offer sheet..."
Add on top of that TPS has already provided us the information that Ryan won't sign an offer sheet. (Whether you wish to believe that is entirely up to you)
Seeing as how the Avalanche hold his NHL Destiny in their hands, for the most part, because he won't get UFA status until he's 27, they are able to wait until he either signs their offer, or they get a trade offer that they deem acceptable. Will it be the rumored return? Who knows, because each person in the Media (Dreger, McKenzie, Simmons, Healy, etc) have all given different answers to what the Avs are apparently looking for. Most recently it was said that if a team calls they're just telling teams to "Make an offer". (I find that to be a strange tactic, but I guess it could work if a team offers something redonkulous)
I'm not here to stir up trouble, but as someone who is both a fan of the Colorado Avalanche, but also a fan of Ryan O'Reilly. If he were to be acquired by the Jets, that would quite literally kill two birds with one stone for me, as I've been wanting a Jets jersey since they moved back up here, and I couldn't think of a better one than a Ryan O'Reilly one.
This is exactly what I said in an earlier post in this very thread. I suggested that we offer sheet O'Reilly and said that the Avs may even quietly thank us for it. They can't offer ROR what he wants because it opens up a whole can of worms for them, but if the Jets did and they matched, they can justify it.
I still believe that though Little is more valuable now, I'd rather take the short term pain of losing him for a long term gain, and would rather have him as the chip then Burmistrov. I do realize however not everyone holds Burmi in such high esteem.
I think Little + Prospect or Pick for RoR is pretty fair value. Look back at the Turris trade (the last time a RFA wouldn't sign), they got David Rundblad and a 2nd back.
The situation is different, but Turris was a third overall pick and has huge offensive upside.
A player loses a lot of value when they're on the trading block and not signed and from what I've read Avs fans have might be over stating RoR's value a bit.
(Btw I was an Avs fan before the Jets came back, so I've seen a lot of RoR.)
^Exactly; this guy gets it.^
That is the same Rundblad BTW that has only dressed in 7 games this season thus far and is a minus 5 over that period. In fact, the forward cap has since declined since that deal was completed, meaning the potential market/return is likely to decline by a roughly commensurate amount.
I think Little + Prospect or Pick for RoR is pretty fair value. Look back at the Turris trade (the last time a RFA wouldn't sign), they got David Rundblad and a 2nd back.
The situation is different, but Turris was a third overall pick and has huge offensive upside.
A player loses a lot of value when they're on the trading block and not signed and from what I've read Avs fans have might be over stating RoR's value a bit.
(Btw I was an Avs fan before the Jets came back, so I've seen a lot of RoR.)
Higher offensive upside doesn't dictate if a defensive player has lower trade value than offensive. And for the record I would take ROR over Turris by a huge margin.
Higher offensive upside doesn't dictate if a defensive player has lower trade value than offensive. And for the record I would take ROR over Turris by a huge margin.
Yes it does...
Offensive upside has consistently dictated far larger value in contract, trade and draft.
Personally I think ROR on HFBoards is just like every young player in the NHL or drafted... criminally overrated by some and criminally underrated by everyone else.
PS I have been a huge fan of ROR from his jr. days and on.
He fits perfect with a player like Kane and would bring out the best in him. They would instantly make a sick line.
If RoR has to leave COL, I'd be excited to see him go to WPG and play with Kane!
Well thanks!
If you guys get Little in return, you will also be very happy. He isn't physical at all, but he is super smart, he works hard, is versatile, and can score/ put up points. Plus at 25 he still fits in with your core.
I think he's generally underrated, especially around here.
Yes it does...
Offensive upside has consistently dictated far larger value in contract, trade and draft.
Personally I think ROR on HFBoards is just like every young player in the NHL or drafted... criminally overrated by some and criminally underrated by everyone else.
PS I have been a huge fan of ROR from his jr. days and on.
I was talking about that other things also dictate how much value a certain player has. Lets say if McSorley had Datsyuk's talent, but his attitude. I can tell you that teams would probably still go after him, but for considerably less. If Rinaldo was an amazing PKer and gave heart and soul every night. He will probably will have much more value than McSorley.
Its weird but I have been getting a feeling we might be in this hunt. I sense this is a perfect fit for Chevy and the Jets. That being said it will be tougher now that we might be in the same conference! also I still think the longer this goes the more likely we see a draft day deal. I would not want to give up Trouba but I would be down with many other options.
Were going to be in the same division as Colorado next year. I'd be shocked if we make a deal now. Especially involving a physical dman like Trouba. A trade could really haunt both teams. I doubt either pull the triggar now
Last edited by Flying High: 02-23-2013 at 11:00 PM.
If you guys get Little in return, you will also be very happy. He isn't physical at all, but he is super smart, he works hard, is versatile, and can score/ put up points. Plus at 25 he still fits in with your core.
I think he's generally underrated, especially around here.
I've really liked Little. If anything he is just a victim of being a guy that didn't turn into a 70+ point player thus he gets flack. imho.
Were going to be in the same division as Colorado next year. They won't be trading him here now.
I don't think this holds any water. If they have been talking deal the past few days, they were already well aware of the potential realignment scenario. It didn't just pop out from thin air, all teams have input.
If you guys get Little in return, you will also be very happy. He isn't physical at all, but he is super smart, he works hard, is versatile, and can score/ put up points. Plus at 25 he still fits in with your core.
I think he's generally underrated, especially around here.
Little's definitely under rated around here. If he put up more points, he would be a fan favorite. His defensive play is also very overlooked, he's actually leading the team in plus/minus right now.
On the RoR trade front, this was taken out of the TSN article on what it might take to get RoR
Quote:
Taking a couple of reasonably-priced assets, maybe plus a draft pick for good measure, from any of the following might be enough to appeal to the Avalanche:
Carolina (Jamie McBain, Ryan Murphy, Zac Dalpe, Jiri Tlusty)
Chicago (Brandon Saad, Marcus Kruger, Andrew Shaw, Mark McNeill, Adam Clendening)
Montreal (Lars Eller, David Desharnais, Brendan Gallagher, Nathan Beaulieu, Jarred Tinordi)
Nashville (Craig Smith, Colin Wilson, Jonathon Blum, Ryan Ellis)
N.Y. Islanders (Josh Bailey, Kyle Okposo, Nino Niederreiter, Brock Nelson, Aaron Ness, Griffin Reinhart)
Phoenix (Keith Yandle is a premium price, so might not require much more)
Toronto (Nazem Kadri, Nikolai Kulemin, Joe Colborne, Carl Gunnarsson, Cody Franson, John-Michael Liles, Jake Gardiner)
There's not a lot of astounding names on that list. A lot of those names have struggled, been on the trading block before or are just trying to make their NHL team's roster.
Little's definitely under rated around here. If he put up more points, he would be a fan favorite. His defensive play is also very overlooked, he's actually leading the team in plus/minus right now.
On the RoR trade front, this was taken out of the TSN article on what it might take to get RoR
There's not a lot of astounding names on that list. A lot of those names have been on the trading block before or are just trying to make their NHL team's roster.
That list is by Scott Cullen. Glen Healy probably has more insider info than him.
That list is by Scott Cullen. Glen Healy probably has more insider info than him.
It's going to be interesting to see how this comes out in the wash, but I think that you guys might end up being disappointed with what you get back.
ROR's dad's interjection into the equation, the whole hold out thing, the money. The fact that Colorado is dealing from a position of weakness. It all lessens the amount that you would get had the deal been made under more amicable circumstances.
Having said that, I still think you will end up with a good player.
You don't think Cheveldayoff values Little over ROR do you?
i can honestly say that i have no idea what Chevy values and what he does not....he is an enigma to me....
i clearly value Little more than others here....i wish his name was gigantor or something like that.....it would help his image.
in my opinion, a team that cant score should think hard about trading a 24-30 goal scorer for a player who has never been a goal scorer at any level....there is not much evidence to support that o'reily will ever be more than a 50 point guy....he brings other things obviously but can we afford to give up goals?
Last edited by peter sullivan: 02-23-2013 at 11:34 PM.
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