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Ryan O'Reilly Headed to Offer Sheet or Trade (Part 4)

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Old
02-27-2013, 07:33 PM
  #676
Bender
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Yeah, that's Ryan O'Reilly. Boom or bust.
LOL

To his defense, he's probably never even seen him play. We DO play pretty late though.

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02-27-2013, 07:34 PM
  #677
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Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
Well it would mean the Avs would have to accept a little less.

As a Devils fan I would be willing to part with Josefson/Tallinder/2nd rounder for an unsigned O'Reilly. Having O'Reilly-Zajac-Loktionov-Gionta all under 30 years old down the middle is pretty awesome.

What if the Avs get him to sign thinking he's going to be traded then decide to keep him....

Better yet... name me the last three sign and trades seen in the NHL lol
Uh, I'm not sure about 'Sign then trade' but 'Trade then sign' happens enough, where it's obvious the team and player negotiated prior to the trade going down. Which is basically the same thing...

Varlamov, Burns, and Turris are recent examples(off the top of my head), and I know there are more. It happens more with UFA's than RFA's but top young restricted free-agents are hardly ever traded simply because of their insane cost/value. Turris is obviously the best example (Situation not value wise). (Can't remember if he signed before or after the trade, but it was obvious his contract was worked out as part of the trade process.)

People need to stop trying to convince Avs fans they should take less in value because hes not signed. HES A RFA NOT A UFA, that's not really complicated so it's fairly obvious your attempting to arbitrarily drive down his value for your own argument.

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Old
02-27-2013, 08:03 PM
  #678
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"headed to" seems a bit hasty. On part 5 of the thread, change it to something that implies even less urgency

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Old
02-27-2013, 08:04 PM
  #679
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Originally Posted by NothingLikeAnEJ View Post
Can you read? I stated that ROR isn't signing an offer sheet. Until a trade is agreed to he will not negotiate with other teams. He doesn't want the Avs to match any offer sheet.
Yes I can read, but can you? ROR is a restricted free agent. This means that teams can contact his agent and can negotiate with him. The process of negotiation does not force him to sign an offer sheet, it is just that, negotiation. To repeat, teams are free to negotiate with him, at any time, and this does not mean ROR will be given an offer sheet, or has to sign an offer sheet. In summary, the idea that "he will not negotiate with other teams" is nonsense, and it is said that the Jets, for one example, have already contacted his agent.

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02-27-2013, 08:12 PM
  #680
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Originally Posted by NothingLikeAnEJ View Post
Yes but O'Reilly isn't signing an offer sheet (it's been gone over a bunch). A trade would have to be agreed to in terms and then the team would negotiate with ROR and then the trade would be made official along with a contract extension.

Avs did the same thing with Varly. GMGM and Sherman agreed to terms and then Avs signed Varly instantly before the trade was made public. So the Avs received Varly signed to a 3 year 2.8mill contract.
O'Reilly would sign an offersheet if his contract terms were met.

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02-27-2013, 09:09 PM
  #681
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O'Reilly would sign an offersheet if his contract terms were met.
Not necessarily. If he really wants out of Colorado, then he will not sign an offer sheet because Colorado could match.

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02-27-2013, 10:00 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by CB Joe View Post
O'Reilly would sign an offersheet if his contract terms were met.
No. Teams can simply ask O'Reilly, "What would you sign for if we traded for your rights", and off we go. That would be completely legal since O'Reilly is technically a RFA.

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02-27-2013, 10:22 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by officeglen View Post
Yes I can read, but can you? ROR is a restricted free agent. This means that teams can contact his agent and can negotiate with him. The process of negotiation does not force him to sign an offer sheet, it is just that, negotiation. To repeat, teams are free to negotiate with him, at any time, and this does not mean ROR will be given an offer sheet, or has to sign an offer sheet. In summary, the idea that "he will not negotiate with other teams" is nonsense, and it is said that the Jets, for one example, have already contacted his agent.
I know teams can negotiate with him. The point here is that ROR isn't signing any offer sheets if he wants out of Colorado. And Winnipeg contacted his agent AFTER they had begun trade talks with the Avs. I'm sure there have been countless amounts of teams calling his agent but he's not signing anything because then the Avs would match and he'd be here for a year and I think by now he clearly wants out.

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02-27-2013, 10:27 PM
  #684
officeglen
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Originally Posted by NothingLikeAnEJ View Post
I know teams can negotiate with him.
but you did say "Until a trade is agreed to he will not negotiate with other teams", but guess we now agree he can negotiate with other teams.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NothingLikeAnEJ View Post
The point here is that ROR isn't signing any offer sheets if he wants out of Colorado. And Winnipeg contacted his agent AFTER they had begun trade talks with the Avs. I'm sure there have been countless amounts of teams calling his agent but he's not signing anything because then the Avs would match and he'd be here for a year and I think by now he clearly wants out.
Agreed, don't sign something the Avs might match. However here is the point: the teams are not calling him to get him to sign an offer sheet, they are calling his agent to find out how much his contract would be if they were to trade for him. That is they are negotiating.

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02-27-2013, 10:35 PM
  #685
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Originally Posted by officeglen View Post
but you did say "Until a trade is agreed to he will not negotiate with other teams", but guess we now agree he can negotiate with other teams.
Should have been more clear I was just talking about the fact that he doesn't want an offer sheet so he'd want a trade to be in place.

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02-27-2013, 11:55 PM
  #686
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If a team called his agent up and said...what are you asking for...

The agent says... 5 years at 5 mill/per.

Team says ok...gives him an offer sheet...RoR signs...

Why the hell would the Avs match if they were unwilling to meet those demands before? ..

I don't think they'd match...at the most they'd say they're going to and work a trade with that team.

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02-27-2013, 11:58 PM
  #687
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
If a team called his agent up and said...what are you asking for...

The agent says... 5 years at 5 mill/per.

Team says ok...gives him an offer sheet...RoR signs...

Why the hell would the Avs match if they were unwilling to meet those demands before? ..

I don't think they'd match...at the most they'd say they're going to and work a trade with that team.
They would match if they didn't find the picks they would get in compensation to be valuable enough. It's possible, even likely, that an overpaid O'Reilly is more valuable than a 1st and a 3rd round pick.

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02-28-2013, 12:04 AM
  #688
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
They would match if they didn't find the picks they would get in compensation to be valuable enough. It's possible, even likely, that an overpaid O'Reilly is more valuable than a 1st and a 3rd round pick.
I still say they bluff and work a trade with the team. Too many bridges burned...and the whole standing firm on their principles when it comes to 2nd contracts and everything else goes right out the window....they'd have major egg on their face.

I doubt RoR signs an OS simply for the fear of them matching....but.. if he did I have a hard time believing Avs match.

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02-28-2013, 12:40 AM
  #689
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If I were a team in the east that needed a center, I would for sure offer sheet him.

Best Scenario: He signs, Colorado doesn't match and you get him without losing an asset.
Worst Scenarios: Doesn't sign, or signs and Colorado matches. He now cannot be traded to a rival for at least a year and stays in the west bloating their salary. Plus, he is clearly not welcome in the locker room.

Florida, Toronto, hell even Washington lol.

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Old
02-28-2013, 12:47 AM
  #690
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An OS is the perfect out cause then the Avs weren't the team that gave him that big contract, they held firm and the player went out and forced them to match it. If only it had happened before both sides got so ******** with each other.

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Old
02-28-2013, 01:12 AM
  #691
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when will this end

this guy is the most overrated player ever

if someone thought he was worth it

he would have gotten an offer sheet already


all this stuff being pushed by the media are

coming from the players agent

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02-28-2013, 05:18 AM
  #692
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An OS is the perfect out cause then the Avs weren't the team that gave him that big contract, they held firm and the player went out and forced them to match it. If only it had happened before both sides got so ******** with each other.
This is not an out clause for the Avs. In fact exactly the opposite. It sends a message to their own players that if you want to be paid what you believe you are worth the best way to do so is to go courting offers from other teams. If that is how the AVS want to manage their payroll then all the power to them.

Do you think that any teams will be interested in Duchene when his deal is up?

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02-28-2013, 05:26 AM
  #693
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This is not an out clause for the Avs. In fact exactly the opposite. It sends a message to their own players that if you want to be paid what you believe you are worth the best way to do so is to go courting offers from other teams. If that is how the AVS want to manage their payroll then all the power to them.

Do you think that any teams will be interested in Duchene when his deal is up?
Hey we matched when Joe Sakic signed one. Do you think that screwed us back then too?

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02-28-2013, 05:26 AM
  #694
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
They would match if they didn't find the picks they would get in compensation to be valuable enough. It's possible, even likely, that an overpaid O'Reilly is more valuable than a 1st and a 3rd round pick.
Exactly this. There's a pretty big difference between him signing and offer sheet with Chicago and Columbus. The Avs would match, O'reilly may not report yadda yadda yadda they move him in the summer to whomever they want and O'reilly's holdout was completely pointless on his part. The ball is in O'reillys court right now, he's the one who will ultimately decide where he ends up.

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02-28-2013, 06:23 AM
  #695
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I still say they bluff and work a trade with the team. Too many bridges burned...and the whole standing firm on their principles when it comes to 2nd contracts and everything else goes right out the window....they'd have major egg on their face.

I doubt RoR signs an OS simply for the fear of them matching....but.. if he did I have a hard time believing Avs match.
Not really... do you think the Predators WANTED to sign Shea Weber to that contract?? But, given the position of take it or leave it, you find out what you're really prepared to do.

The biggest problem here, is that the Avs seemed to be unwilling to pay him more than Duchene, ridiculously basing their salaries of what they've paid others versus what he's actually worth.

As others have mentioned, if this is a money issue, sign the offer sheet and be done with it. 2 years at $4-4.5m, and call it a day. Let the Avs decide whether they want to take hard-line approaches, or do what's in the best interest of their hockey club.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
Exactly this. There's a pretty big difference between him signing and offer sheet with Chicago and Columbus. The Avs would match, O'reilly may not report yadda yadda yadda they move him in the summer to whomever they want and O'reilly's holdout was completely pointless on his part. The ball is in O'reillys court right now, he's the one who will ultimately decide where he ends up.
A player cannot be traded for a full calendar year after signing an offer sheet. He can't use that approach if he truly wants out and wants to play in October next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
They would match if they didn't find the picks they would get in compensation to be valuable enough. It's possible, even likely, that an overpaid O'Reilly is more valuable than a 1st and a 3rd round pick.
The whole purpose of the offer sheet process, is designed to ensure that RFA's are paid an amount which makes them worth approximately the same as the compensation.

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02-28-2013, 07:20 AM
  #696
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Why don't the Avs work out a deal with Vancouver and end 2 long standing rumor/speculations. Nucks need a centre and the Avs are looking for a the best offer.

Loungo for O'Rielly, Giguere and some other parts from both sides to balance it out, maybe the Nucks add in Mason Raymond and Avs throw in Jones and O'byrne?

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02-28-2013, 07:24 AM
  #697
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Originally Posted by wunderpanda View Post
Why don't the Avs work out a deal with Vancouver and end 2 long standing rumor/speculations. Nucks need a centre and the Avs are looking for a the best offer.

Loungo for O'Rielly, Giguere and some other parts from both sides to balance it out, maybe the Nucks add in Mason Raymond and Avs throw in Jones and O'byrne?
Because your deal is beyond horrible and quite frankly the worst offer out there. Avs don't want Luongo or Raymond and we certainy are not taking Lus contract.......

Edler would have to come back if we are trading in our own division. Not gonna happen? Thank god.

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02-28-2013, 07:37 AM
  #698
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Originally Posted by wunderpanda View Post
Why don't the Avs work out a deal with Vancouver and end 2 long standing rumor/speculations. Nucks need a centre and the Avs are looking for a the best offer.

Loungo for O'Rielly, Giguere and some other parts from both sides to balance it out, maybe the Nucks add in Mason Raymond and Avs throw in Jones and O'byrne?
Bad trades make me a sad panda.

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02-28-2013, 07:47 AM
  #699
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Because your deal is beyond horrible and quite frankly the worst offer out there. Avs don't want Luongo or Raymond and we certainy are not taking Lus contract.......

Edler would have to come back if we are trading in our own division. Not gonna happen? Thank god.
You mean even non-leaf fans think Luongo's contract is prohibitively expensive? That's a shocker.

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02-28-2013, 07:52 AM
  #700
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Hey we matched when Joe Sakic signed one. Do you think that screwed us back then too?
You may want to read the post I responded to. The poster suggested that an OS was the prefect out because it would give them an excuse for why they paid so much for him. Do you actually think that someone like Duchene would buy something like that?

THey may indeed match any offer sheet. But to suggest that this is a good strategy for player management is pushing it.

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