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Winger Acquisition Thread | Part V: Wingers in the Hands of an Angry (Hockey) God

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02-25-2013, 09:14 PM
  #726
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I'd be 100 percent comfortable with having Bennett in the top 6 during the playoffs. He's been playing responsibly with and without the puck, keeps up with the pace of play, and has good vision. Let Shero get another top 6 winger(preferably someone with an edge), put Dupuis on the third, and anything else would be gravy.

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02-25-2013, 09:20 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Sjb141 View Post
Of all the realistic options out there I think kulemnin is the best by a pretty decent margin. Unless there's someone out there who hasn't really been talked about (and there is, every year).

I like doulglas Murray as a player but I really don't think he'd fit w/ us at all. If San Jose was just giving him away I'd take him in a heart beat but I wouldn't give up anything valuable to get him.

Also was talking to someone who mentioned in passing "don't be shocked by how little Iginla goes for at the trade deadline." It was in passing so don't really know what the context of "little" is.
How realistic is getting Kulemin though? If they are in the playoff race at the deadline (which they very well could be), they aren't moving him for players prospects/picks IMO. I think we're going to have to wait a month to get a clearer picture for sure, but I don't think you could say realistic right now.

As for Murray, I agree. While I think we NEED a guy like him for the playoffs (big/defensive/physical) I wouldn't want to give up much for the player. guys like this are moved every year for a mid round pick.

As for Iginla, I agree with whoever said it. While I'm not certain he'll be moved, I doubt the return is as huge as the Flames fans expect. I'm not saying it's going to be peanuts, but I also don't see any MAJOR pieces going to the Flames (minus a 1st rd pick or recent draftee).

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02-25-2013, 09:21 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by TakeYOrpik View Post
I'd be 100 percent comfortable with having Bennett in the top 6 during the playoffs. He's been playing responsibly with and without the puck, keeps up with the pace of play, and has good vision. Let Shero get another top 6 winger(preferably someone with an edge), put Dupuis on the third, and anything else would be gravy.
I would say not preferably, I'd say someone with an edge is a must! We need some toughness on this team. It's quite soff.

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02-25-2013, 09:26 PM
  #729
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We definitely need more size on the wing. Especially if Bennett is flanking one of Sid/Geno come postseason.

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02-25-2013, 09:26 PM
  #730
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Don't know who/where it was but someone did a really nice bkdwn of tor that I thought was pretty reasonable, but you're right, things are going to drag out until the last minute this year. Lots of teams just sticking around - and not to mention its just really hard to evaluate anything w/ such a short season.

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02-25-2013, 09:32 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Tasty Biscuits View Post
Clowe might be one of those guys who could just really benefit from a change of scenery. I think he's worth the gamble, as he could provide a Kunitz-type presence alongside Geno and Neal.

He could definitely be a positive in making the Pens a tougher team to play against. No strings attached contract-wise. I'd go for it depending on the price.
I couldn't agree more. And I don't think it would take all that much to get him seeing he's a UFA at season's end. Trader Ray might be up to something big this year. I think they're realizing their 2 big stars are human. It's time to put up or shut up, and they need some protection. Toughness IS a problem. Hopefully it'll be addressed.

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02-25-2013, 09:33 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
We definitely need more size on the wing. Especially if Bennett is flanking one of Sid/Geno come postseason.
Would a Bennett-Sid-Iginla line do it for ya?

I'm 100 percent confident in BB as of this moment. He's playing fantastic 2 way hockey. I say keep playing him, see if he can keep up this level. If he can, great, we don't need anyone for him. If his play tapers off, then we can find a replacement, whether it be via trade or simply Dupuis...

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02-25-2013, 09:49 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by cheesedanish87 View Post
Do u guys realize Kulemin who had 7 goals last year is on pace for 2 or 3 goals this year. I just dont see him as a upgrade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
Toronto has scored the 9th most goals and are only 3 goals behind the Blackhawks for 3rd in the league. It's not like he plays for Nashville of Columbus where no one scores.

I don't know how a guy who is putting up putrid numbers will all of a sudden start scoring playing with Geno. I get it, he does other things than score, but he needs some offense to play on that line.

His stats from last year and this year scare the hell out of me
I agree with these guys. I realize Kulemin brings all of the physical aspects we love in a winger, but I see no reason to think his scoring is going to magically improve here. That season that he scored 30 goals he shot 17.5%, which is almost 6% better than any other year and 11% better than last year.

Is Kulemin a better winger for Geno than Tangradi, Boychuk, and Cooke? Most likely. But is he worth someone like Niskanen in return? Definitely not in my book.

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02-25-2013, 09:49 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by wheelz87 View Post
Would a Bennett-Sid-Iginla line do it for ya?

I'm 100 percent confident in BB as of this moment. He's playing fantastic 2 way hockey. I say keep playing him, see if he can keep up this level. If he can, great, we don't need anyone for him. If his play tapers off, then we can find a replacement, whether it be via trade or simply Dupuis...
My only issue with BB has been his puck control. Has a hard time handling passes, and the puck just seems to bounce off his stick (which is very surprising as I thought this was a strength). I'm sure that's all just some young jitters though. He's always in good position, and for not being that big uses his body much better than I expected. All in all, I've been more than pleased. If he could just handle the puck a little better, I think he'd be making a much more presence offensively.

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02-25-2013, 09:56 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by wheelz87 View Post
Would a Bennett-Sid-Iginla line do it for ya?

I'm 100 percent confident in BB as of this moment. He's playing fantastic 2 way hockey. I say keep playing him, see if he can keep up this level. If he can, great, we don't need anyone for him. If his play tapers off, then we can find a replacement, whether it be via trade or simply Dupuis...
That's what I've recently been suggesting. That if Bennett keeps this up, we could go with ...

Bennett - Crosby - Iginla
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Dupuis - Sutter - Stempniak
Cooke - Vitale - Adams/ Glass

- two of Adams / Glass/ Jeffrey for depth in playoffs which you obviously need.

Talk about improving every line. Makes the bottom six so much better . cookie on the 4th with vitale would be nice. Once again, that's if Bennett continues to improve. To where it doesn't matter that he's a rookie( we've seen plenty of rookies on Stanley cup teams that made an impact) .

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Old
02-25-2013, 10:09 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by JimmyTwoTimes View Post
That's what I've recently been suggesting. That if Bennett keeps this up, we could go with ...

Bennett - Crosby - Iginla
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Dupuis - Sutter - Stempniak
Cooke - Vitale - Adams/ Glass

- two of Adams / Glass/ Jeffrey for depth in playoffs which you obviously need.

Talk about improving every line. Makes the bottom six so much better . cookie on the 4th with vitale would be nice. Once again, that's if Bennett continues to improve. To where it doesn't matter that he's a rookie( we've seen plenty of rookies on Stanley cup teams that made an impact) .
If we brought in Stempniak I don't see it to be a 3rd line winger. He'd be in the top 6 over Bennett for sure.

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Old
02-25-2013, 10:15 PM
  #737
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Shero has a lot of assets and a lot of cap space. I'm not asking for 2 Neal trades. I think one long-term acquisition and one rental is realistic. Or 2 rentals. Or SOMETHING ANYTHING DEAR GOD PLEASE SHERO.

Sorry.

You have to balance the immediate-term and the longer-term, and I don't see Shero making a move unless it's for a "difference maker". Neal is a difference maker. We don't know who, if any, difference makers are available and what the price would be or if we're willing to pay that. Sure, we could trade for lots of guys if we did what we did in 2008 and traded all 3 of our 1st round picks in this awesome draft, as well as some of the other prospects. But this would neither be smart or necessary.


People can debate whether Bennett is full-time top-6 material now, but nobody is questioning that he will be part of our top-6 for several years it seems -- if not starting this year, then starting next year. Neal is locked up, Kunitz extended and likely will again next year, and I think we'll get Cooke and Dupuis resigned, probably at the expense of TK, which is fine.


But also, we've got some other potential top-6 forwards in Agostino, Archibald and a healthy Kuhnhackl. No, these guys aren't "sure things" but it's likely that at least one will emerge. And if we don't trade our picks this year, we will likely add a few more to that mix -- including perhaps a legit blue-chipper or two from the first 1 or 2 rounds.


So really all we need, like RRP said, is ONE good addition. If we can upgrade one guy before the playoffs, that would be awesome; but even if that doesn't happen, we're still a contender. Then, if we can add a Perry or Iginla in the summer, that would be huge; but again, we're still a perennial contender either way. We have to wait and see what presents itself rather than speculate. The positive thing that we do know is that Shero and ownership are not shy and will make a hockey trade if there is one to be made, and Sid is not a passive bystander either. If something can be done, it will be done. If it can't, let's just play our very best hockey possible and hope we can stay healthy. It's not quite a dire situation.

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Old
02-25-2013, 10:16 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by JimmyTwoTimes View Post
That's what I've recently been suggesting. That if Bennett keeps this up, we could go with ...

Bennett - Crosby - Iginla
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Dupuis - Sutter - Stempniak
Cooke - Vitale - Adams/ Glass

- two of Adams / Glass/ Jeffrey for depth in playoffs which you obviously need.

Talk about improving every line. Makes the bottom six so much better . cookie on the 4th with vitale would be nice. Once again, that's if Bennett continues to improve. To where it doesn't matter that he's a rookie( we've seen plenty of rookies on Stanley cup teams that made an impact) .
While Stemniak is having a good season, IMO he's no better than TK at a higher hit. Both are small tweener 2nd/3rd liners with a good season here or there but will be right around 15 goals a year with a little physicality, and neither are that great defensively.

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02-25-2013, 10:21 PM
  #739
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I love how everyone is convinced beau bennett should be on this team for the remainder of the season after like 5 games. I'd be hesitant with him because he is so injury prone and just unproven. I think it's fine to see how does on the top 6 while Malkin is injured, but I don't want some unproven rookie playing in our top 6 unless Shero is completely usekeas at the deafline.

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02-25-2013, 10:27 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
I love how everyone is convinced beau bennett should be on this team for the remainder of the season after like 5 games. I'd be hesitant with him because he is so injury prone and just unproven. I think it's fine to see how does on the top 6 while Malkin is injured, but I don't want some unproven rookie playing in our top 6 unless Shero is completely usekeas at the deafline.
I don't think anyone thinks this is the best option, I think it's just the most likely one. Would Shero love to bring in 2 top 6 wingers? I'm sure. Will he? I doubt it. And not cause he's useless, just because it most likely won't be feasible.

In that case, we need someone for the role, and BB is the best for that role at the moment (well, that's if we push Dupuis to 3rd line which I think is for the best).

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02-25-2013, 10:29 PM
  #741
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As much as Stempniak fits the Shero mold..ie he's an American, I'm not sure his lack of physicality would be what we need. I'm thinking he might just be a smaller version of Seto. Would love to get Iggy, but I think this week will tell a lot. If BB shows he can handle the additional minutes during this road trip, then possibly the need might be to acquire a single forward, like Iggy. However, if things don't pan out, then we might need to get two forwards, which may limit our cap capability to secure Iggy plus 1. If Beau plays well, then it may be a forward and a bigger experienced crease cleaner, like Murray.

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02-25-2013, 11:23 PM
  #742
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Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
I love how everyone is convinced beau bennett should be on this team for the remainder of the season after like 5 games. I'd be hesitant with him because he is so injury prone and just unproven. I think it's fine to see how does on the top 6 while Malkin is injured, but I don't want some unproven rookie playing in our top 6 unless Shero is completely usekeas at the deafline.
He's always going to be unproven until he gets a chance to prove himself. Just like Despres and Bortuzzo, Bennett needs NHL time if he's going to be a part of this team.

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02-25-2013, 11:56 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
I love how everyone is convinced beau bennett should be on this team for the remainder of the season after like 5 games. I'd be hesitant with him because he is so injury prone and just unproven. I think it's fine to see how does on the top 6 while Malkin is injured, but I don't want some unproven rookie playing in our top 6 unless Shero is completely usekeas at the deafline.
It's been an eye opener for those 5 games.

And yes, the way he plays, at this point it's better for him to keep learning at the NHL level instead of the AHL level. The 3rd line C on the big club is better than anything the WBS Pens can ice, that team is anemic for offense and having Beau try to do too much there with very little support...I wouldn't want that for the kid. I'd rather he honed his craft with the big club. His 2-way game being even more polished will make him an even better fit and a more reliable guy in the top 6. His offensive gifts are undeniable.

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02-26-2013, 12:21 AM
  #744
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Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
I love how everyone is convinced beau bennett should be on this team for the remainder of the season after like 5 games. I'd be hesitant with him because he is so injury prone and just unproven. I think it's fine to see how does on the top 6 while Malkin is injured, but I don't want some unproven rookie playing in our top 6 unless Shero is completely usekeas at the deafline.
He hasn't proven that he has any trouble handling this level, he is the best option for the top 6 currently, and a guy will never gain experience unless you allow him to do so.

Brad Marchand was pretty good for Boston in their Cup run. Detroit has always had young guys on their playoffs teams getting good minutes.


Last edited by JTG: 02-26-2013 at 12:29 AM.
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02-26-2013, 12:21 AM
  #745
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Drew Stafford RW Buffalo...

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Old
02-26-2013, 04:32 AM
  #746
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I don't understand why anyone thinks 2 top-6 wingers are our biggest needs. Land 1 really good one for Sid (IGINLA!!!), let Dupuis and Bennett battle it out to decide which should be on the 1st or 3rd line, and then nab a tough D-man like Regehr.

I'd offer our 1st, Niskanen, TK, and a D prospect that isn't Despres or Morrow for Iginla. He's a UFA, Calgary is garbage, and I'm sure he has a very short list as to what teams he'd accept a trade to. That should be plenty.

Bennet/Dupuis-Sid-Iginla
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis/Bennet/Jeffrey
Glass-Vitale-Adams

Regehr-Letang
Orpik-Martin
Despres/Bortuzzo/Eaton-Engelland

Fleury
Vokoun

Iggy is the exact player we need, IMO. He should be Shero's 1st, 2nd and 3rd priority. Star-calibre scoring ability, grit, and the vet leadership this team has been lacking.

Wouldn't terribly mind seeing Despres and Regehr sharing some minutes on that top pair, if Despres matures a little more in the next 20 games or so.

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Old
02-26-2013, 07:36 AM
  #747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
I love how everyone is convinced beau bennett should be on this team for the remainder of the season after like 5 games. I'd be hesitant with him because he is so injury prone and just unproven. I think it's fine to see how does on the top 6 while Malkin is injured, but I don't want some unproven rookie playing in our top 6 unless Shero is completely usekeas at the deafline.
He should definitely be on the team the remainder of the season and no one is saying it's got to be in a top 6 role, he has looked pretty good on the 3rd line as well. We can still add a winger or 2 and leave BB in the lineup

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02-26-2013, 07:59 AM
  #748
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
In the radio business we have something called a tease. It goes a little like this:

I'm trying to find the audio, but a former-GM-turned-media member was discussing a certain LW for a certain team that happens to play in the city in which I reside, and mentioned that when this team gets healthy - they are currently missing 2 of their top-6 wingers - this LW is likely the odd man out. Now, I believe he was talking about healthy scratch, but healthy scratch is just one step closer to Geno's hip, imo.

And yes, this message is directed almost entirely in KIRK's direction.

As soon as I find the audio, I'll let you know.
Kirk likes HotMocha's teases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesedanish87 View Post
The KHL is a different league I dont think their success would translate to the NHL.

Our top 4 wingers right now are neal kunitz dupuis BB I dont think hes an upgrade over any of them. I agree he would be a upgrade on our 3rd line and a guy we could use on our PK but i think most people are talking about him in a top 6 role not a 3rd line role.
Ever watch Kulemin defend Malkin in the NHL? Ever seem like Kulemin knows exactly what Malkin is doing and is going to do with or without the puck? The 'chemistry' goes beyond the KHL. Kulemin gets how Malkin plays. He gets what he's going to do at any point. He knows, both instinctively and after a decade of playing with Malkin, when to support, when to step away, and how to do all of that in a way that I've only seen Malone and Talbot do it. I'll be blunt: Kulemin is a better fit with Malkin than any of the four players you mentioned. What Kulemin does on the ice allows Malkin to play to his strengths. You can't underestimate the value in that.

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02-26-2013, 08:04 AM
  #749
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Originally Posted by Cliff Clavin View Post
I don't understand why anyone thinks 2 top-6 wingers are our biggest needs. Land 1 really good one for Sid (IGINLA!!!), let Dupuis and Bennett battle it out to decide which should be on the 1st or 3rd line, and then nab a tough D-man like Regehr.

I'd offer our 1st, Niskanen, TK, and a D prospect that isn't Despres or Morrow for Iginla. He's a UFA, Calgary is garbage, and I'm sure he has a very short list as to what teams he'd accept a trade to. That should be plenty.

Bennet/Dupuis-Sid-Iginla
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis/Bennet/Jeffrey
Glass-Vitale-Adams

Regehr-Letang
Orpik-Martin
Despres/Bortuzzo/Eaton-Engelland

Fleury
Vokoun

Iggy is the exact player we need, IMO. He should be Shero's 1st, 2nd and 3rd priority. Star-calibre scoring ability, grit, and the vet leadership this team has been lacking.

Wouldn't terribly mind seeing Despres and Regehr sharing some minutes on that top pair, if Despres matures a little more in the next 20 games or so.
Regehr is not even close to the player he used to be... + pairing him with despres in the playoffs with scare the crap out of me. Turnovers galore.

Especially considering playoff type hockey is what despres has shown to be his worst games. When the physicality goes up, hes decision making skills goes down.

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02-26-2013, 08:06 AM
  #750
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What does the bolded mean? Are you implying that Kunitz-Sid-Neal is superior to Kunitz-Malkin-Neal based on one game? That would be absurd given how well the line with Geno performed last year.
I wouldn't necessarily say that Sid gets more from Kunitz and Neal than Geno did.

At the same time, I think it can be argued that Kunitz (or a Kunitz style player) and Neal are an ideally suited combo, whether the center is Sid or Geno, if only because you see how Geno and Neal looked with Kunitz last year and without him both this year and last year.

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