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Winger Acquisition Thread | Part V: Wingers in the Hands of an Angry (Hockey) God

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Old
02-26-2013, 09:06 AM
  #751
IcedCapp
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Kirk likes HotMocha's teases.

Finally. Save me from these people who don't want two top-6 wingers!

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02-26-2013, 09:11 AM
  #752
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2.8MM is nothing in today's cap world. He's better than a 3rd line player. Watch him play.
I really don't get this part of it. Kulemin-- and Dave King wrote this years ago-- is a guy with the size to do the dirty work in the offensive zone, the responsibility of positioning to always be back defensively so that Malkin can take chances offensively, and with a mind to understand how a player like Malkin plays and to support him appropriately on the ice.

There's no price tag you can put on that. The cap hit would be a bargain. And, really, who cares how many points Kulemin would score if what he does on the ice frees up Malkin to do what he does best?

Malkin NEEDS a guy like Kulemin. IMO, leave Neal with Sid and Kunitz. Malkin would be just fine with Kulie and BB.

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02-26-2013, 09:14 AM
  #753
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Finally. Save me from these people who don't want two top-6 wingers!
Sorry, swamped at work yesterday.

I'm trying. In terms of style (and how he'd look with Geno), Kulie is Ryan Malone five years ago minus the edge but with a little better defense and skating.

Can't speak for you, but I'll say this: If I could name any five guys in the league, regardless of age, cap hit, etc to play the Malone/Talbot/Kunitz role on a line with Geno, then Kulemin is on that list.

Anything further on that radio chatter? BTW, I do remember suggesting last week that certain LW might be odd man out when two certain top six wingers return over the next few weeks . . .

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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
okay, heard the audio, not nearly as juicy as I thought (i had only caught the tail end of it live).

Basically Gord Stellick (former Leafs GM) said that Kulemin has "made their decision easy for them" when Lupul and Frattin return.

Read into that what you will.
I hate you again for that tease . . .

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02-26-2013, 09:16 AM
  #754
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Can we haz Mozyakin?

Yes, Mozyakin is Sunshine, next season anyway.

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02-26-2013, 09:19 AM
  #755
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Sorry, swamped at work yesterday.

I'm trying. In terms of style (and how he'd look with Geno), Kulie is Ryan Malone five years ago minus the edge but with a little better defense and skating.

Can't speak for you, but I'll say this: If I could name any five guys in the league, regardless of age, cap hit, etc to play the Malone/Talbot/Kunitz role on a line with Geno, then Kulemin is on that list.

Anything further on that radio chatter? BTW, I do remember suggesting last week that certain LW might be odd man out when two certain top six wingers return over the next few weeks . . .



I hate you again for that tease . . .
Don't hate me for the tease! I still think Kulemin is more available now than he was 2 or 3 weeks ago. He scored a goal last night, but I don't think it changes much. They are going to have 2 top-6 guys come back soon. They are going to have to make some moves. 9 NHL defensemen, too many top-6 wingers, only Jake Gardiner can be sent down without Waivers. They'll have to move someone. Maybe it won't be Kule, but...

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02-26-2013, 09:20 AM
  #756
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Am I the only one that doesn't want to see Ryan Clowe as a Penguin? He's a pretty dirty player imo. I mean playing the puck from the bench... Jumping off the bench to fight... Not exactly what I want to see from my top 6
Yes, because if the 2006-2009 Pens were characterized by one word, it's 'clean'.

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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Don't hate me for the tease! I still think Kulemin is more available now than he was 2 or 3 weeks ago. He scored a goal last night, but I don't think it changes much. They are going to have 2 top-6 guys come back soon. They are going to have to make some moves. 9 NHL defensemen, too many top-6 wingers, only Jake Gardiner can be sent down without Waivers. They'll have to move someone. Maybe it won't be Kule, but...
Oh no, I was saying last week I can't see him not being odd man out when both Lupul and Frattin are back. Maybe MacArthur is the only other guy.

So, realistically, what do you think the ask for Kulie will be when those two return? What do you think Nonis actually would take? And, do you think Shero goes there?

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Originally Posted by Sjb141 View Post
Of all the realistic options out there I think kulemnin is the best by a pretty decent margin. Unless there's someone out there who hasn't really been talked about (and there is, every year).

I like doulglas Murray as a player but I really don't think he'd fit w/ us at all. If San Jose was just giving him away I'd take him in a heart beat but I wouldn't give up anything valuable to get him.

Also was talking to someone who mentioned in passing "don't be shocked by how little Iginla goes for at the trade deadline." It was in passing so don't really know what the context of "little" is.
Toronto once 'gave away' Hal Gill, with an extra year left on his deal, for a 2nd and a 5th.

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Originally Posted by Cliff Clavin View Post
I don't understand why anyone thinks 2 top-6 wingers are our biggest needs. Land 1 really good one for Sid (IGINLA!!!), let Dupuis and Bennett battle it out to decide which should be on the 1st or 3rd line, and then nab a tough D-man like Regehr.

I'd offer our 1st, Niskanen, TK, and a D prospect that isn't Despres or Morrow for Iginla. He's a UFA, Calgary is garbage, and I'm sure he has a very short list as to what teams he'd accept a trade to. That should be plenty.

Bennet/Dupuis-Sid-Iginla
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis/Bennet/Jeffrey
Glass-Vitale-Adams

Regehr-Letang
Orpik-Martin
Despres/Bortuzzo/Eaton-Engelland

Fleury
Vokoun

Iggy is the exact player we need, IMO. He should be Shero's 1st, 2nd and 3rd priority. Star-calibre scoring ability, grit, and the vet leadership this team has been lacking.

Wouldn't terribly mind seeing Despres and Regehr sharing some minutes on that top pair, if Despres matures a little more in the next 20 games or so.
I think most people would view getting Iginla like getting Hossa, i.e., putting him with another winger like Dupuis is the equivalent of two good wingers.

So, yeah, two good wingers, one higher end one . . . makes no difference to me, for one.

As for BB and the playoffs, I'd be concerned. Smart kid. Works hard. Even the 'running out of gas' risk is mitigated. But, the playoffs are an entirely different animal, and first year players can be given a chance as long as there's a plan B just in case (e.g., Letang/Sydor in 2008).


Last edited by shureshot66: 02-26-2013 at 03:46 PM.
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Old
02-26-2013, 09:30 AM
  #757
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Oh no, I was saying last week I can't see him not being odd man out when both Lupul and Frattin are back. Maybe MacArthur is the only other guy.

So, realistically, what do you think the ask for Kulie will be when those two return? What do you think Nonis actually would take? And, do you think Shero goes there?
well that's the interesting thing. Because of the circumstances, it almost can't be a roster player, right? He's not good enough to warrant a top-6 center, and they aren't going to package what it would take to get one... so basically you're looking at picks and prospects, which I think helps the Pens...

I think he could be had for the right draft pick. The 1st? Maybe.

edit/update: Kulemin played 11 minutes at ES yesterday, and only 13 minutes total (all PK)

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02-26-2013, 09:30 AM
  #758
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Sorry, swamped at work yesterday.

I'm trying. In terms of style (and how he'd look with Geno), Kulie is Ryan Malone five years ago minus the edge but with a little better defense and skating.

Can't speak for you, but I'll say this: If I could name any five guys in the league, regardless of age, cap hit, etc to play the Malone/Talbot/Kunitz role on a line with Geno, then Kulemin is on that list.

Anything further on that radio chatter? BTW, I do remember suggesting last week that certain LW might be odd man out when two certain top six wingers return over the next few weeks . . .



I hate you again for that tease . . .
I would go one better and say that he would do for Malkin, what Kunitz does for Crosby. Plus the bet thing that I like about him is that he doesn't need PP mins to be effective.

I'm kind of hoping that Neal and Kunitz stick with Sid and the Pens are looking for Malkins wingers. Kulemin fits what Malkin needs on his line and the up tempo style the Pens play.

That being said some of the people on these boards are crazy to think that he's worth a pretty big chunk of the Pens future. As much as I like him I would hate to see the Pens give up a first in this draft for him.

I would go...

TK, Maatta and a 5th
for
Kulemin and a 3rd

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02-26-2013, 09:34 AM
  #759
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I would go one better and say that he would do for Malkin, what Kunitz does for Crosby. Plus the bet thing that I like about him is that he doesn't need PP mins to be effective.

I'm kind of hoping that Neal and Kunitz stick with Sid and the Pens are looking for Malkins wingers. Kulemin fits what Malkin needs on his line and the up tempo style the Pens play.

That being said some of the people on these boards are crazy to think that he's worth a pretty big chunk of the Pens future. As much as I like him I would hate to see the Pens give up a first in this draft for him.

I would go...

TK, Maatta and a 5th
for
Kulemin and a 3rd
Yeah, in the sense that there's a more natural complement.

I always thought that Kunitz worked decently with Geno, but their playing styles were too disparate and Kunitz wasn't quite the board player to make it a natural fit like he fits with Sid.

It's the inverse of Malone. Malone was always up and down with Sid because he couldn't always keep up. But, his board play and increased physicality fit perfectly with Geno.

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well that's the interesting thing. Because of the circumstances, it almost can't be a roster player, right? He's not good enough to warrant a top-6 center, and they aren't going to package what it would take to get one... so basically you're looking at picks and prospects, which I think helps the Pens...

I think he could be had for the right draft pick. The 1st? Maybe.

edit/update: Kulemin played 11 minutes at ES yesterday, and only 13 minutes total (all PK)
Toronto has no incentive to do it for less than a 1st before the summer. At the very least, he'd be depth.

That said, if Ray Shero paid the 1st, then, notwithstanding the immediate reaction on winners/losers among the hockey punditry (and on this board), that price will prove to be among Shero's best bargains.

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Old
02-26-2013, 09:42 AM
  #760
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Kirk likes HotMocha's teases.



Ever watch Kulemin defend Malkin in the NHL? Ever seem like Kulemin knows exactly what Malkin is doing and is going to do with or without the puck? The 'chemistry' goes beyond the KHL. Kulemin gets how Malkin plays. He gets what he's going to do at any point. He knows, both instinctively and after a decade of playing with Malkin, when to support, when to step away, and how to do all of that in a way that I've only seen Malone and Talbot do it. I'll be blunt: Kulemin is a better fit with Malkin than any of the four players you mentioned. What Kulemin does on the ice allows Malkin to play to his strengths. You can't underestimate the value in that.
Iv said I have no problem if the pens get Kulemin because even if he dont work in a top 6 roll u could easily put him on the 3rd line where we also need help at. I realize hes an all around good winger who plays good defense. But u gotta score to play in the top 6 and he hasn't been able to do that much playing with decent players. He also had good chemistry with grabo I believe grabo called Kulemin his little brother and he still hasn't scored it takes more then just knowing each other to score goals in the nhl.

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02-26-2013, 09:47 AM
  #761
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I'm kind of hoping that Neal and Kunitz stick with Sid and the Pens are looking for Malkins wingers. Kulemin fits what Malkin needs on his line and the up tempo style the Pens play.
I just dont get this line of thinking. Split up the duo that led to both players reaching career highs in goals and points-per-game? It makes no sense.

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02-26-2013, 09:50 AM
  #762
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Why would any team want Tyler Kennedy? I dont understand why he's being inserted into every deal. Hes a career third line winger with the hockey IQ of a turnip.

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02-26-2013, 09:53 AM
  #763
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Why would any team want Tyler Kennedy? I dont understand why he's being inserted into every deal. Hes a career third line winger with the hockey IQ of a turnip.
Because he's been targeted in the past by other GMs and maybe they think he can succeed on their club.

When the Blackhawks won the Cup in 2010 then had to trade some of that team away, they looked at the Penguins and 2 specific players they looked at were Max Talbot and Tyler Kennedy.

Summer of 2011, when Kennedy was an RFA (coming off his 21 goal season) we didn't qualify him and the Blues were interested.

I think Kennedy holds more value around the NHL than on a message board.

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02-26-2013, 09:58 AM
  #764
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
well that's the interesting thing. Because of the circumstances, it almost can't be a roster player, right? He's not good enough to warrant a top-6 center, and they aren't going to package what it would take to get one... so basically you're looking at picks and prospects, which I think helps the Pens...

I think he could be had for the right draft pick. The 1st? Maybe.

edit/update: Kulemin played 11 minutes at ES yesterday, and only 13 minutes total (all PK)
If i was the leafs I would try to package some of their players and maybe a prospect to get ROR. He could help them win now and in the future.

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02-26-2013, 10:13 AM
  #765
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If i was the leafs I would try to package some of their players and maybe a prospect to get ROR. He could help them win now and in the future.
I don't think they'll do that during the year, though. Would take a lot, and I don't think they want to shake their roster up while they're in firm playoff position.

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02-26-2013, 10:14 AM
  #766
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Iv said I have no problem if the pens get Kulemin because even if he dont work in a top 6 roll u could easily put him on the 3rd line where we also need help at. I realize hes an all around good winger who plays good defense. But u gotta score to play in the top 6 and he hasn't been able to do that much playing with decent players. He also had good chemistry with grabo I believe grabo called Kulemin his little brother and he still hasn't scored it takes more then just knowing each other to score goals in the nhl.
1. Malkin > Grabo (and I don't really care about Grabo's personal issues ).

2. If Kulemin makes Malkin better-- and he will-- then I will view his points as gravy.

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I just dont get this line of thinking. Split up the duo that led to both players reaching career highs in goals and points-per-game? It makes no sense.
Malkin and Neal with anyone but Kunitz-- who's dirty work allowed Malkin and Neal to play to their respective strengths-- was not a good combo 5 on 5, either this year OR last year.

Malkin doesn't need Neal. Having Neal means more points, but I'd take Malone-Malkin-Sykora or Feds-Malkin-Talbot (from the cup run) over Malkin and Neal with any winger on the roster not named Kunitz because those older units had players who's style let Malkin play to his strengths.

That said, if the Pens acquired Kulemin and then put him with Malkin and Neal, then that line would be the sickest in hockey, at least until Ray Shero acquired Iginla and put him with Sid and Kunitz . . .

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I don't think they'll do that during the year, though. Would take a lot, and I don't think they want to shake their roster up while they're in firm playoff position.
Other thing is I'm not sure Kulemin gives them much in a package to get ROR. Two years ago, he'd have been the big piece or close to the biggest piece in a three or four piece deal to get a top end player. Now, he's the third player in a deal like that, GENERALLY SPEAKING.

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02-26-2013, 10:39 AM
  #767
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post

Malkin and Neal with anyone but Kunitz-- who's dirty work allowed Malkin and Neal to play to their respective strengths-- was not a good combo 5 on 5, either this year OR last year.

Malkin doesn't need Neal. Having Neal means more points, but I'd take Malone-Malkin-Sykora or Feds-Malkin-Talbot (from the cup run) over Malkin and Neal with any winger on the roster not named Kunitz because those older units had players who's style let Malkin play to his strengths.

That said, if the Pens acquired Kulemin and then put him with Malkin and Neal, then that line would be the sickest in hockey, at least until Ray Shero acquired Iginla and put him with Sid and Kunitz . . .
I agree that Malkin and Neal need a board guy; I never intended to dispute that. I want to add Kulemin to the dynamic duo.

I think we should be looking for Crosby's Neal and Malkin's Kunitz.

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02-26-2013, 11:05 AM
  #768
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Other thing is I'm not sure Kulemin gives them much in a package to get ROR. Two years ago, he'd have been the big piece or close to the biggest piece in a three or four piece deal to get a top end player. Now, he's the third player in a deal like that, GENERALLY SPEAKING.
He definitely wouldn't be the main piece, and that's the problem. You're exactly right, he's the 3rd piece (or second if the 3rd piece is, say a 1st-round pick).

I don't know what the Avs are asking, but I think they're generally a poorly-run franchise, so I think they're probably asking too much for a player who isn't under contract and who isn't playing hockey, so I'd assume it would be something like:

Kadri, Kulemin, 1st?

Which the Leafs COULD give up, but won't. (And I wouldn't personally, since Kadri is realllllly developing nicely)

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02-26-2013, 11:17 AM
  #769
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nothing new or substantive, but relevant to the thread:

Quote:
Another name to watch, of course, before April 3 is Jarome Iginla. We don’t know yet if he’d be willing to waive his no-trade clause for a trade. But if he’s willing, and if the Flames are finally willing to move him, one team to keep an eye on is Pittsburgh. I believe the Penguins have interest in Iginla, who found success with Sidney Crosby on Team Canada at 2010 Olympics. The Penguins have also had success in the past with aging wingers Bill Guerin and Gary Roberts, two players in particular who found new life in their legs after arriving in Pittsburgh. Iginla would be a nice fit there, too.
from LeBrun

More on trades and if/when things will heat up here: http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...d-bad-ref-luck

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02-26-2013, 11:29 AM
  #770
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
nothing new or substantive, but relevant to the thread:



from LeBrun

More on trades and if/when things will heat up here: http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...d-bad-ref-luck
I saw that, interesting to say the least, but that's just a popular opinion. "Iginla getting traded? Send him to Pittsburgh with Crosby" I know it's his speculation, but I don't see the Penguins acquiring Iginla.

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02-26-2013, 11:30 AM
  #771
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Just beat me to posting that, IcedCapp. And I've always felt that Shero would be interested in Iginla for this type of trade.

I'd be happy with:

Dupuis - Crosby - Iginla
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal

I'm not 100% sure where Bennett fits on a playoff run, this year. Will have to see how he progresses in the next few weeks.

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02-26-2013, 11:31 AM
  #772
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I know it's his speculation, but I don't see the Penguins acquiring Iginla.
Why? Pens obviously are after another winger, have plenty of cap room and assets to move.

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02-26-2013, 11:33 AM
  #773
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I saw that, interesting to say the least, but that's just a popular opinion. "Iginla getting traded? Send him to Pittsburgh with Crosby" I know it's his speculation, but I don't see the Penguins acquiring Iginla.
I think its more then an opinion your hearing to many people say it.

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02-26-2013, 11:36 AM
  #774
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If he gets moved, I'd definitely say we're the favorite to land him. Cap space, good trading partner and a need on wing playing with the best centers in the game.

But I still say it's a longshot they move him. Feaster always thinks they're in win now mode. They're not going to get a huge amount for him at this point. And we don't know if he'd resign. I wouldn't move Despres for him without knowing he'd be willing to resign.

Maatta+TK+1st tops.

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02-26-2013, 11:38 AM
  #775
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Why? Pens obviously are after another winger, have plenty of cap room and assets to move.
Do we? I know there's cap space this season, but what do the Penguins do in the summer when the cap drops and Iginla needs paid?

I don't want to move a bunch of assets, quality assets, to rent Iginla.

Quote:
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I think its more then an opinion your hearing to many people say it.
Yes, many people say it, but that doesn't make it a fact, everyone who says "keep an eye on the Penguins to acquire Iginla, he would be a fit there" is saying their opinion.....in my opinion

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