HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Will we ever see a better player than Gretzky? Will we know it?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-04-2013, 06:14 PM
  #326
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 37,992
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goalsfordinner View Post
But realistically. He is not going be scoring with those slap shots even close to the percentage he did in his day. Otherwise Stamkos would score much more than he already does.
I don't think anyone thinks Gretzky breaks 70s goals 4 seasons in a row like he did in the 1980s, but he probably had the most accurate slapshot of all time.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 06:18 PM
  #327
SaintPatrick33
Conn Smythe Winner
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,044
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goalsfordinner View Post
Crosby is basically today's Gretzky with Hockey IQ and passing. Crosby has better reflexes then Gretzky and can make a decision just as fast as him. But it's not that simple in today's league.
I'm sorry but Crosby is NOT Gretzky's equal in terms of hockey IQ and passing. NO one is or even WAS.

SaintPatrick33 is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 06:19 PM
  #328
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,495
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goalsfordinner View Post
Crosby is basically today's Gretzky with Hockey IQ and passing. Crosby has better reflexes then Gretzky and can make a decision just as fast as him. But it's not that simple in today's league.
Disagree on both counts, honestly, and I'm sure I've seen elaborate posts/threads somewhere touching on these very aspects (though, to my recollection, not necessarily in a direct Crosby vs Gretzky comparative way).

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 06:29 PM
  #329
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,495
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goalsfordinner View Post
It is not to much of a stretch to say Crosby is similar to Gretzky in they react fast. How many times has Crosby controlled a puck straight off a rebound with his skate to his stick and make an amazing play? This play is what I am talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mP1v1IPFas
That's a pretty pedestrian play, in all honesty. But ultimately I'm of the opinion that Crosby's "processing" time, reaction time, and decision-making all take a back seat to Gretzky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goalsfordinner View Post
Closest there is today though.
I would agree with that. Everything down to the body control and ability to change a play in a split second. Just not as quite as good. Sid's a better physical beast, though I suppose even simple statistical probabilities would have predicted most players would be by this point.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 07:26 PM
  #330
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,495
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goalsfordinner View Post
Really a pedestrian play? Come on. Not many players can control a puck like that in full speed. About the processing, reaction time etc. Ok you think Gretzky is better. But he does not blow Crosby out of the water in that regard.

Look at this play. In a span of like 2 seconds Crosby kicks the puck up to his stick and saucers it through two guys to set up a goal. Thats what I mean about decision and reaction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJo6haixe6U
I don't know what to tell you. I've never said either "blows either out of the water". But I think he essence of what I'm trying to say here is expanded upon in part 3 of six of this series on Wayne, particularly starting around 4:09 with the bit about Walter teaching Wayne to go where the puck is going, not where it has been, and continuing on through Howe, Trottier, Potvin, Esposito, and Lemieux's anecdotes:

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 07:29 PM
  #331
ryanwb
Registered User
 
ryanwb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 863
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I honestly don't know the basis of this. Thornton had 125 points in 2006. Jagr had 127 in 1999 and 123 in 2006 and 121 in 2001. Crosby had 120. Malkin had 113. Ovechkin had 112. Henrik had 112. Now, this is all in a lower scoring era in the NHL compared to the 1980s.

Thornton had back to back years of 96 and 92 assists. He had some great years but I think we are forgetting one thing here. Gretzky never took a game off. He was the hardest worker in practice and a player who was incredibly consistent. Gretzky didn't have a 5 point night and then disappear the next game. That is another thing we tend to forget here. This is a guy who set out a goal in the beginning of the year to average 2 assists a game. He just "felt" like it. He did that along with a 52 goal campaign. Or in 1981-'82 when he decided he wanted to become more of a threat on the ice he started shooting more. He ends up with 92 goals. I really don't know what more the man could have done to convince people. Believe me, in the 1980s it was just as surreal as we would see it today. It was such a dominant stretch that 30 years later we try and justify it by saying "well, no one could do that TODAY." Let me tell you, no one could do that THEN either.
My point was that I don't think even a prime Gretzky would statistically dominate now the way that he did. The game is far, far too different for it to happen. That being said he would still clearly be the best player in the league. Just the statistical separation he once had is pretty much impossible to reproduce today. I think somewhere in the realm of 150-160 points would be achievable. Somewhere around 15-30 points ahead of 2nd place. Anything more than that is unlikely I believe.

I also refuse to believe that Crosby is anything but the best player of his generation. Where he ranks all time is obviously still to be decided, but when all is said and done, he may end up being a top 10 forward, maybe even player, of all time. I highly doubt that Gretzky could outscore Sid by 50+ points any given season now, let alone 80 or more, or that he could win the Art Ross over Sid purely on assists alone.

All I can do is thank my lucky stars that I was actually alive to see some of these things happen, because it is quite likely we will never, ever see anything like that ever again.

ryanwb is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 07:54 PM
  #332
MadLuke
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,197
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanwb View Post
My point was that I don't think even a prime Gretzky would statistically dominate now the way that he did. The game is far, far too different for it to happen. That being said he would still clearly be the best player in the league. Just the statistical separation he once had is pretty much impossible to reproduce today. I think somewhere in the realm of 150-160 points would be

150-160 points now a day would be most of the time around 40-50 point lead and total domination

MadLuke is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 08:29 PM
  #333
tazzy19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,617
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanwb View Post
Perhaps. All we can do is speculate. Sure I wouldn't really be too surprised if he did it. But realistically, I don't think a prime Gretzky is THAT much better of a playmaker than a guy like Joe Thornton where size and speed is often so important in today's NHL that he could win the Art Ross purely on assists. Joe Thornton topped out at what, 96 assists? Spezza was 2nd in the NHL that season with 71. Joe was clearly the best playmaker in the NHL at this point in time. That season is the 16th highest assist total in NHL history, ahead of guys like Lafontaine, Yzerman or Stastny's best. And even then he barely squeaked ahead of Jagr in points at the end of the season. I guess if Gretzky had chemistry with a pure sniper like Kessel or Ovechkin or something, sure maybe 100, 110, maybe even a bit more is realistic. But not enough to win the Art Ross.

I still think he would dominate though. But when I speculate this, I also speculate Crosby topping out at about 130-140 points in a full season, which is why I don't see Gretzky ever getting by on just assists. I can't in any way, shape, or form see him doing that today. And that is by no means a knock on his talent level at all. I could see him getting 150-160 points nowadays. But the game has just changed way to much for him to take advantage like he used to IMO.
I appreciate your assessment, and it is well balanced, but the bolded has never actually happened. People are generally winning the scoring title these days with just over 100 points. If Gretzky scored 110 assists, he would probably win the scoring title without having to score a single goal.

As for Joe Thornton being in the same ball park as a playmaker as Gretzky....NO. Not even close. Gretzky had led the NHL in assists at age 37 with no help on a horrible Rangers Team in the middle of the dead puck era. Imagine if he was 25 with some decent wingers playing now with all those powerplays and no red line? That tells me all I need to know.

tazzy19 is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 08:29 PM
  #334
edog37
Registered User
 
edog37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Washington DC
Country: United States
Posts: 2,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shazariahl View Post

He already turned LA from the 4th worst team to the 4th best overnight and took them to a cup finals a few years after that. He already proved he could turn a bad team into a contender. Lemieux never did that. His team was bad when he got there, continued to be bad even with him putting up tons of points, and only became good when they got significant talent around him.
I've seen some dumb stuff written on this board, but this one takes the cake. Yo, Lemieux saved the franchise at age 18, not when he was 27. The next time the pipsqueak does that will be the first. There is a huge load of difference between a player in his prime & a rookie kid. And yes, the Pens struggled even with him amassing a ton of points, but then again, the team did improve in the standings. The year prior to him arriving, that miserable team had only 38 points. After he got here, it shot up to 53 points, then into the 70s, 81 in '87-88 & finally made the playoffs in '88-89 with 87 points. Additionally, to state that a team only becomes good when it puts significant talent around its best player is kind of redundant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shazariahl View Post
5. The only time Lemieux came close to Gretzky's best seasons was when he himself had a very deep roster....
Ah, the same in reverse is also true. Gretzky's best seasons happened when he himself had a very deep roster.

edog37 is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 08:33 PM
  #335
SaintPatrick33
Conn Smythe Winner
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,044
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by edog37 View Post
the pipsqueak
Is it really necessary to insult the man?

SaintPatrick33 is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 09:11 PM
  #336
tazzy19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,617
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by edog37 View Post
I've seen some dumb stuff written on this board, but this one takes the cake. Yo, Lemieux saved the franchise at age 18, not when he was 27. The next time the pipsqueak does that will be the first. There is a huge load of difference between a player in his prime & a rookie kid. And yes, the Pens struggled even with him amassing a ton of points, but then again, the team did improve in the standings. The year prior to him arriving, that miserable team had only 38 points. After he got here, it shot up to 53 points, then into the 70s, 81 in '87-88 & finally made the playoffs in '88-89 with 87 points. Additionally, to state that a team only becomes good when it puts significant talent around its best player is kind of redundant.



Ah, the same in reverse is also true. Gretzky's best seasons happened when he himself had a very deep roster.
Not true. In 1981-82, Gretzky scored a record 92 goals, but if you take away every single one of those record 92 goals, he still would have dominated the rest of his teammates in points. That's right, Gretzky's 120 assists that year were enough to beat 2nd place Anderson's point total by 15 points. What about Gretzky's line mate Kurri? He had 32 goals. Who was he feeding for his (then) record 120 assists? And who was feeding Gretzky for his record 92 goals? Not one player on that Oilers team besides Anderson topped 100 points! And no one even topped 50 goals! Except for Gretzky of course, who topped 91 goals and 211 points

tazzy19 is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 09:42 PM
  #337
edog37
Registered User
 
edog37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Washington DC
Country: United States
Posts: 2,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazzy19 View Post
Not true. In 1981-82, Gretzky scored a record 92 goals, but if you take away every single one of those record 92 goals, he still would have dominated the rest of his teammates in points. That's right, Gretzky's 120 assists that year were enough to beat 2nd place Anderson's point total by 15 points. What about Gretzky's line mate Kurri? He had 32 goals. Who was he feeding for his (then) record 120 assists? And who was feeding Gretzky for his record 92 goals? Not one player on that Oilers team besides Anderson topped 100 points! And no one even topped 50 goals! Except for Gretzky of course, who topped 91 goals and 211 points
guys he won Cups with. That's the point. Lemieux was playing with garbage for years, Gretzky came into the league with a lot of the pieces of the puzzle....

edog37 is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 09:56 PM
  #338
Rhiessan71
Just a Fool
 
Rhiessan71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Guelph, Ont
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
while I see why some might guess at that there a slight problem that I ahve a hard time trying to square with the numbers as we know them.

Wayne scored, even in his best seasons on around a little over 50% of his teams goals in the NHL and very few teams even flirt with close to 300 GF in a post lockout NHL.

Say Wayne is on 55% of his teams GF (which I'm not sure he ever achieved) then that team would need to score 300 GF in the regular season, in a typical year.

The problem for me is Wayne going to score on more than his highest % rate of his teams GF or is the team he is on going to score the extra 40ish to 80ish goals required.

And if said team goes out and scores at the higher rate does the GF and GA (that Wayne had in a less defensive era) come back to haunt that team and they can't win so they switch styles, which is what happened to Washington after their 318 GF season.


Except Wayne's teams scored a hell of a lot more goals than everyone else.
In 85/86 when he set the season points record, the Oilers outscored the next highest by a full 20% and scored a whopping 37% more than the average of the other 20 teams in the League.
In a low scoring year like last year, that 37% is close to 310 goals. Gretzky@50%= 155 points.
In 05/06, that 37% is about 350 goals. Gretzky@50%= 175 points.


Next argument please.

Rhiessan71 is online now  
Old
03-04-2013, 10:00 PM
  #339
jigglysquishy
Registered User
 
jigglysquishy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,384
vCash: 492
Quote:
Originally Posted by edog37 View Post
guys he won Cups with. That's the point. Lemieux was playing with garbage for years, Gretzky came into the league with a lot of the pieces of the puzzle....
No one is holding a rookie Jagr against Lemieux. No one should hold a rookie Messier/Kurri/Coffey against Gretzky.

jigglysquishy is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 10:26 PM
  #340
tazzy19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,617
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by edog37 View Post
guys he won Cups with. That's the point. Lemieux was playing with garbage for years, Gretzky came into the league with a lot of the pieces of the puzzle....
Only in retrospect can you say that those players were "pieces of the puzzle". At the time, they were merely "pieces". Without Gretzky, there would be no "puzzle". He created that puzzle with the pieces he had, and those pieces became much greater than what they would have been without him, rest assured. And even though those pieces had a lot of potential, at that time they had not become the hall of fame players they would later become. Yet the 20 year old Gretzky had just had the greatest season of all time. Go figure.

tazzy19 is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 11:16 PM
  #341
redbull
Expect more
 
redbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazzy19 View Post
As for Joe Thornton being in the same ball park as a playmaker as Gretzky....NO. Not even close. Gretzky had led the NHL in assists at age 37 with no help on a horrible Rangers Team in the middle of the dead puck era. Imagine if he was 25 with some decent wingers playing now with all those powerplays and no red line? That tells me all I need to know.
I'm continually astonished at how little respect Gretzky gets by some but I doubt it's from anyone who saw him play. Joe Thornton?!?!? Holy Christ that's a new one.

I saw 99 live in the 87 Canada Cup, round robin game vs. USA, Mario had a hat trick, Gretz two assists and Ladontaine scored for the US team....I think it was 3-1 or 3-2 final. Point being, Gretzky and Lemieux were unreal. Ladontaine was average, Chelios and Suter were ordinary, by comparison. They stood out like men playing against children.

In 1997-98 I saw 99 with the NYR at Maple Leaf Gardens. He got 3 assists in a 5-2 win, maybe 5-3. Gretz finished that year with 90pts, far ahead of Lafontaine and Kovalev....but Gretzky was terrible. Compared to the player I remember, he was so ordinary. He was NOTHING compared to the 87 Gretzky. By then, he was "just" the top point getter in the league (close enough anyway) but a shell of what he was.

Sometimes the stats don't tell the story. But he was capable of 100 pts when he was washed up.

To think a prime Gretzky would be in the Thornton range is so completely laughable, it's beyond ridiculous.

This board. Wow. I know these threads come up every week but wow.

redbull is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 11:31 PM
  #342
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,081
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
He wouldn't need Kessel or Ovechkin. Oh sure, those guys would hit the 65-70-goal mark next to 99, but Gretzky turned Dave Lumley into a 32-goal man in 1982. He helped Pat Hughes score 24, 25 and 27 goals from 1982-84. Dave Semenko had double-digit seasons in goals four times. It wasn't always because of Gretzky, but 99 played with a lot of different players all the time and could set up even the John Scott's of today for about 4-7 goals.
Dave the Hammer Schultz had 20 goals while spending over 8 whole games in the penalty box as well in the 70's.

Lumley did a peak season with the Oil in 82 but it wasn't like he didn't score at an impressive rate in the AHL and US college level either.

Dido Hughes who scored at a lower rate in the College and AHL but quite well.

Both guys were also in their prime seasons as well.

Scoring simple wasn't that hard in the early 80's, especially on a team bent on trying to run up the score in a league situation that couldn't stop many teams from doing so if they wished to play that style.

Hardyvan123 is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 11:40 PM
  #343
edog37
Registered User
 
edog37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Washington DC
Country: United States
Posts: 2,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazzy19 View Post
Only in retrospect can you say that those players were "pieces of the puzzle". At the time, they were merely "pieces". Without Gretzky, there would be no "puzzle". He created that puzzle with the pieces he had, and those pieces became much greater than what they would have been without him, rest assured. And even though those pieces had a lot of potential, at that time they had not become the hall of fame players they would later become. Yet the 20 year old Gretzky had just had the greatest season of all time. Go figure.
If you look at the roster Gretzky had vs the roster Lemieux had, it isn't even close. Lemieux had nobody to play with for at least his first 3 years until Coffey arrived in a trade. And no, Warren Young does not count....

edog37 is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 11:41 PM
  #344
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,081
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
70/48*82 = 119.58, basically a 120 point season.
Well with 36 points in 23 games he is on pace for a 130ish (128 points) season pro rated to 84 games.

Although it's getting obvious from this thread that there are two distinct camps here as we have already seen a guy "like Wayne" in Mario and to a lesser extent Sid (with more of a two way game).

Hardyvan123 is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 11:41 PM
  #345
edog37
Registered User
 
edog37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Washington DC
Country: United States
Posts: 2,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
No one is holding a rookie Jagr against Lemieux. No one should hold a rookie Messier/Kurri/Coffey against Gretzky.
Jagr wasn't really much of a factor during those Cup runs. He was primarily a 3rd line player....

edog37 is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 11:43 PM
  #346
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 37,992
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by edog37 View Post
If you look at the roster Gretzky had vs the roster Lemieux had, it isn't even close. Lemieux had nobody to play with for at least his first 3 years until Coffey arrived in a trade. And no, Warren Young does not count....
How does playing with crap and missing the playoffs make Lemieux a better player? When the Penguins actually were winning Cups, they were stacked to the teeth.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline  
Old
03-04-2013, 11:46 PM
  #347
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,081
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
One of the biggest reasons Gretzky's slap shot was so dangerous is because the goalies were absolutely terrified by his playmaking ability and often cheated towards the open man. Gretzky was the best ever at playing mind games with the goalie.
While this is true the goalies of the post lockout era are much better equipped to stop all attackers and their defenses are as well.

This is something we can't measure exactly but it's had a huge impact on offense.

Hardyvan123 is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 12:00 AM
  #348
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,081
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
Except Wayne's teams scored a hell of a lot more goals than everyone else.
In 85/86 when he set the season points record, the Oilers outscored the next highest by a full 20% and scored a whopping 37% more than the average of the other 20 teams in the League.
In a low scoring year like last year, that 37% is close to 310 goals. Gretzky@50%= 155 points.
In 05/06, that 37% is about 350 goals. Gretzky@50%= 175 points.


Next argument please.
Wow slow down there buddy you are simply translating 80's stats to today without giving any reasons as to why that would happen.

Just because the 85/86 Oilers who were trying to outscore everyone and did so by that rate, doesn't mean that the same situation would occur today in a post lockout NHL.

That's part of the huge problem here is that some guys are simply translating the 80's to post lockout when so many things ahve changed and simply overlook it and say "well heck it's Wayne" and don't really look at it.

For one thing no team plays all out offense to try to outscore the other team any more and in a Cap era it's extremely unlikely that even a team lead by the "primest" of Wayne would be successful doing so.

At best we might see a Washington type of result depending on the team if that style was adopted (which like I said would be extremely unlikely)

Hardyvan123 is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 12:03 AM
  #349
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,081
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
How does playing with crap and missing the playoffs make Lemieux a better player? When the Penguins actually were winning Cups, they were stacked to the teeth.
Exactly at least Sid and Wayne led their respective teams to SC at a fairly early stage of their careers.

Hardyvan123 is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 12:04 AM
  #350
ryanwb
Registered User
 
ryanwb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 863
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazzy19 View Post
I appreciate your assessment, and it is well balanced, but the bolded has never actually happened. People are generally winning the scoring title these days with just over 100 points. If Gretzky scored 110 assists, he would probably win the scoring title without having to score a single goal.

As for Joe Thornton being in the same ball park as a playmaker as Gretzky....NO. Not even close. Gretzky had led the NHL in assists at age 37 with no help on a horrible Rangers Team in the middle of the dead puck era. Imagine if he was 25 with some decent wingers playing now with all those powerplays and no red line? That tells me all I need to know.
You're right it has never happened, and it certainly may never happen. It it just in my opinion that Crosby is continuing his ascent to a stratosphere very few players have ever gone before. He's scoring at a ridiculous pace since February began (29 points in 18 games, 132 points over a full season), and if there is anyone in the NHL today that I think could keep up some semblance of that offense, it's Sid.

So while I speculate on Gretzky's numbers, I don't think it is too much of a stretch to imagine a healthy, top of his game Crosby getting around 130 points. Most people realize and acknowledge he is clearly the best offensive player in the league. I don't think we have seen his best, that's all.

As for Joe Thornton being in the same ballpark, you're probably right. All we have to go by is the numbers. That 96 assist season is probably more like 120-130 assists in 85-86 when Gretzky scored 163 assists, which would put Joe around 3rd or 4th all time in single season assists. So I would say they are at least somewhat comparable, wouldn't you? Sure Gretzky is obviously better, but his numbers are slightly (only slightly) inflated due to the time he played in. Adjusting for the discrepancies doesn't tell the whole picture because Wayne was just so freaking far ahead of everyone else, but I like to think Thornton is one of the top setup men of all time, and that 05-06 season is the closest anyone has been to 100 assists in a long time. Considering he was 25 assists higher than 2nd place that year should tell us something as well.

ryanwb is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:14 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.