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Pavel Bure's goalscoring peak?

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Old
03-24-2015, 10:29 AM
  #1
OzzyFan
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Pavel Bure's goalscoring peak?

Since Bure's been brought up lately and I couldn't find anything about this searching past threads, where does Bure's peak 1 or 2 seasons rank amongst the all time great goalscorers? Obviously longjevity is against him, health for most of his seasons was against him, but he put together a couple(few arguably) amazing goalscoring years in the DPE. Where do they rank amongst other all time greats at peak on a player vs player basis? Top 5? Top 10? Top 20?

PS=Talking about his 3 "richard" years if anyone's wondering.

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03-24-2015, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyFan View Post
Since Bure's been brought up lately and I couldn't find anything about this searching past threads, where does Bure's peak 1 or 2 seasons rank amongst the all time great goalscorers? Obviously longjevity is against him, health for most of his seasons was against him, but he put together a couple(few arguably) amazing goalscoring years in the DPE. Where do they rank amongst other all time greats at peak on a player vs player basis? Top 5? Top 10? Top 20?

PS=Talking about his 3 "richard" years if anyone's wondering.
Just curious but did Bure lead the league in goals in 1993-94? I know he's got 2 Richards...

As for his peak, I rank his 1993-94 and 1999-00 seasons as top 5 for goalscoring peak.

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03-24-2015, 11:25 AM
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vadim sharifijanov
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depends how tightly you define the timeframes for peak.

bure's best goal scoring years were incredible half-seasons, usually at the back of the season after average (for him) starts. so if we're just asking "how good was bure in his best half-seasons?" that would refer to the second half of his rookie year, the first half of '93, the second half of '94 (including playoffs), the second half of '00, and hte second half of '01. i would hold any of those stretches next to the great FULL seasons by anyone, ever.

but if we define peak by best full season, i have a bunch of people ahead of bure, including most recently the peak ovechkin of the 65 goal season.

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03-24-2015, 11:36 AM
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Up until his last season where he was basically playing on one leg, Bure was all peak. The season before, 2001-02 he had 12 goals in 12 games and 20 points after his trade to the Rangers. Of course he was still only 30 years old at that point so he never really played long enough to decline at a 'natural' rate.

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Old
03-24-2015, 11:57 AM
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He's the best goal scorer I've ever seen besides Lemieux and Ovechkin, in 23 years of watching hockey. Not sure where he ranks all time though.

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03-24-2015, 01:17 PM
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OzzyFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
Just curious but did Bure lead the league in goals in 1993-94? I know he's got 2 Richards...

As for his peak, I rank his 1993-94 and 1999-00 seasons as top 5 for goalscoring peak.
Yes, in 93/94 he led the league with 60goals, 3 more than Brett Hull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
depends how tightly you define the timeframes for peak.

bure's best goal scoring years were incredible half-seasons, usually at the back of the season after average (for him) starts. so if we're just asking "how good was bure in his best half-seasons?" that would refer to the second half of his rookie year, the first half of '93, the second half of '94 (including playoffs), the second half of '00, and hte second half of '01. i would hold any of those stretches next to the great FULL seasons by anyone, ever.

but if we define peak by best full season, i have a bunch of people ahead of bure, including most recently the peak ovechkin of the 65 goal season.
Best full season. Although the half season historical comparison does intrigue me now.

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03-24-2015, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by OzzyFan View Post
Although the half season historical comparison does intrigue me now.
I did this quickly, but it seems to show that Bure was on par with Ovechkin at his streaky best... and Ovechkin is both an ATG & streaky goal scorer.

Best 41+ Game Stretches Each Season:

GPG (Adj. GPG)

BURE
'93- 0.92 (0.76)
'94- 1.00 (0.93)
'98- 0.76 (0.86)
'00- 0.88 (0.97)
'01- 0.95 (1.04)
AVG: 0.90 (0.91)

OVECHKIN
'08- 0.91 (1.00)
'09- 0.89 (0.94)
'10- 0.82 (0.89)
'14- 0.78 (0.87)
'15- 0.80 (0.91)
AVG: 0.84 (0.92)

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Old
03-24-2015, 06:08 PM
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1999-00
Bure: 58 (74 games)
Nolan: 44 (78 games)
Amonte: 43 (82 games)

A 31.8% edge on 2nd place while playing 4 less games (5%).

It's undoubtedly Top 10 all-time and up for debate in terms of Top 5. Going by HR's adjusted goals:

Hull: 78
Ovechkin: 72
Lemieux: 71
Esposito: 70
Gretzky: 69

9th Place Bure: 64

Considering he missed 8 games, that's pretty much Top 5 projected over a full season. You're looking at an easy 80 goal year in the 80s.

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03-24-2015, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingsFan95 View Post
1999-00
Bure: 58 (74 games)
Nolan: 44 (78 games)
Amonte: 43 (82 games)

A 31.8% edge on 2nd place while playing 4 less games (5%).

It's undoubtedly Top 10 all-time and up for debate in terms of Top 5.
1999-2000 looks especially good because it gives us a chance to compare Pavel Bure with an abnormal amount of ENGs to Owen Nolan and Tony Amonte instead of the even more injured Jaromir Jagr (42 goals in 63 GP) who would have cut down on the 14-goal lead the way he and others typically did in the Dead Puck Era.

Goals on Goaltenders - 1998-2004
Teemu Selanne, 1998 - 50 in 72 (.694)
Pavel Bure, 2001 - 55 in 82 (.671)
Pavel Bure, 2000 - 49 in 74 (.662)
Peter Bondra, 1998 - 50 in 76 (.658)
Jaromir Jagr, 2000 - 40 in 63 (.635)
Joe Sakic, 2001 - 52 in 82 (.634)
John LeClair, 1998 - 51 in 82 (.622)
Teemu Selanne, 1999 - 45 in 75 (.600)
Jarome Iginla, 2002 - 49 in 82 (.598)
Pavel Bure, 1998 - 48 in 82 (.585)
Markus Naslund, 2003 - 48 in 82 (.585)
Milan Hejduk, 2003 - 48 in 82 (.585)
Alexander Mogilny, 2001 - 43 in 75 (.573)
Jaromir Jagr, 2001 - 46 in 81 (.568)
Eric Lindros, 1999 - 40 in 71 (.563)
Ziggy Palffy, 1998 - 45 in 82 (.549)
Todd Bertuzzi, 2003 - 45 in 82 (.549)
Joe Sakic, 1999 - 40 in 73 (.548)
Alexei Kovalev, 2001 - 43 in 79 (.544)
Paul Kariya, 2000 - 40 in 74 (.541)
Peter Bondra, 2001 - 44 in 82 (.537)
Glen Murray, 2003 - 44 in 82 (.537)
Jaromir Jagr, 1999 - 43 in 81 (.531)
Owen Nolan, 2000 - 41 in 78 (.526)
Marian Hossa, 2003 - 42 in 80 (.525)
Milan Hejduk, 2001 - 41 in 80 (.513)
Rick Nash, 2004 - 41 in 80 (.513)
Alexei Yashin, 1999 - 42 in 82 (.512)
Tony Amonte, 2000 - 41 in 82 (.500)
Mats Sundin, 2002 - 41 in 82 (.500)
Tony Amonte, 1999 - 40 in 82 (.488)
Alexei Yashin, 2001 - 40 in 82 (.488)


In terms of full individual seasons, I'm more impressed by Joe Sakic's goal-scoring in 2000-01, because he was a two-way player who was looking to pass to teammates as often as he was looking to score himself. Imagine if he was trying to put on a one-man, all-out offensive show like Pavel Bure did in Florida or Teemu Selanne did without Paul Kariya in 1998.

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Old
03-24-2015, 08:41 PM
  #10
The Panther
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingsFan95 View Post
Going by HR's adjusted goals:

Hull: 78
Ovechkin: 72
Lemieux: 71
Esposito: 70
Gretzky: 69

9th Place Bure: 64

Considering he missed 8 games, that's pretty much Top 5 projected over a full season. You're looking at an easy 80 goal year in the 80s.
No way. He won the goals-title 58 to 44, which is very impressive, but it's hardly the same as scoring 80 goals at any time.

Also, the "adjusted goals" is a farce, especially when looking at extreme-talents like Gretzky or Lemieux. Hull's goals in 1991 is not statistically more impressive than Gretzky in 1984... or 1982.

Back on topic, I guess Bure's peaks were '92 to '94 and '97 to '01. I was always impressed that he managed to score 51 goals in '97-'98 while playing for such a dysfunctional team. I can't say Bure is quite the most elite-level scorer, though, because the work-stoppage, injuries, and his poor '96-'97 campaign, all in the middle of his prime years, slowed his progress a great deal.

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