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Old
03-09-2017, 03:45 AM
  #1
mightyquack
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Sami Vatanen II

Other thread was near 1000, continue

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Old
03-18-2017, 01:23 AM
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Wish he would would start racking up some points especially from goals.

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03-18-2017, 10:58 AM
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Wish he would would start racking up some points especially from goals.
Since the break he has 1 goal and 3 assists in 8 games. That's top among all Ducks defensemen. He also has 25 shots on goal in that time frame, which is over 3 shots per game. The only other Ducks that is averaging 2 shots per game over that time span is Montour with 12 in 6 games.

Vatanen has been miles better recently and it looks like his shot is back to 100% again.

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03-18-2017, 11:18 AM
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The kid is in a tough spot.

All year we have been average or better or then worse.

Goals against and defensive lapses have been an issue at times.

And then we want the kid to not focus on those team issues and work on being an offensive dynamo.

Its obvious Vats has the skills to be amazing 3rd pairing dman with big offensive flair on the PP and transition game. But really, are we giving him the support to focus on that kind of game? This team is always on a razors edge of success and failure.

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03-18-2017, 11:27 AM
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Vatanen is far more than a 3rd pairing defenseman. He's a low end number two or high end number three guy. He's struggled this year but he's starting to bounce back and provided he works hard this offseason he should bounce back next year.

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03-18-2017, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Vatanen is far more than a 3rd pairing defenseman. He's a low end number two or high end number three guy. He's struggled this year but he's starting to bounce back and provided he works hard this offseason he should bounce back next year.
Vatanen has been a low end #2 for about a 10 day span of the playoffs last year. He's been a mid level 4 for most of this year. I agree with you if you're talking potential, but he's never reliably been what you're describing to this point in his career.

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03-18-2017, 12:16 PM
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Vatanen has been a low end #2 for about a 10 day span of the playoffs last year. He's been a mid level 4 for most of this year. I agree with you if you're talking potential, but he's never reliably been what you're describing to this point in his career.
Last season and the year before he had 37 and 38 points in 67 and 71 games (that's a 45 and 43 point pace). He also played 21 minutes per game and was key to our PP and PK. I would classify that as a low end number 2 or high end number 3. I would struggle to name 60 better defensemen than Vatanen over the course of those two seasons.

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03-18-2017, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Last season and the year before he had 37 and 38 points in 67 and 71 games (that's a 45 and 43 point pace). He also played 21 minutes per game and was key to our PP and PK. I would classify that as a low end number 2 or high end number 3. I would struggle to name 60 better defensemen than Vatanen over the course of those two seasons.
When you do it playing on the top pairing, you're a #2. When you do it playing on the 3rd pairing, you're Marc Andre Bergeron. A #2 can offensively or defensively (but not both) carry a pairing against top line competition. Vatanen absolutely cannot do either at this point.

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03-18-2017, 02:36 PM
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To keep it short, because I think DVM nailed it, Vatanen has always been in a favorable situation in Anaheim, with a buffer between him and the heaviest responsibilities. He sits below Lindholm and Fowler on the depth chart, and the majority of the time has seen him on a completely separate D pairing, meaning he isn't even on the ice to see the lion's share of the toughest minutes.

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03-18-2017, 02:42 PM
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What I know is, Sami has looked better later, Cam has been quite disappointing since his great start, Hampus has looked great and awful in different games. They aren't all equal in talent, but they seem to share the same frustrating lack of consistency. That's the one place where they all need to emulate Casual Kev, consistency.

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Old
03-18-2017, 03:20 PM
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What I know is, Sami has looked better later, Cam has been quite disappointing since his great start, Hampus has looked great and awful in different games. They aren't all equal in talent, but they seem to share the same frustrating lack of consistency. That's the one place where they all need to emulate Casual Kev, consistency.
Yeah the biggest issue with our D is it's consistency. That's what happens when you're relying on guys between 22 and 25 to do all the heavy lifting I guess. I think Lindholm is the most consistent of the three but he's been having too many off nights recently too.

We really miss Beauchemin. I wasn't totally against letting him go but someone good needed to be bought in to replace him, not Kevin ****ing Bieksa.

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03-18-2017, 03:35 PM
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Yeah the biggest issue with our D is it's consistency. That's what happens when you're relying on guys between 22 and 25 to do all the heavy lifting I guess. I think Lindholm is the most consistent of the three but he's been having too many off nights recently too.

We really miss Beauchemin. I wasn't totally against letting him go but someone good needed to be bought in to replace him, not Kevin ****ing Bieksa.
For all the hype he gets I think Lindholm has had a very disappointing season. There have been times I'd swear he had a #2 on his back. That just shouldn't be happening with a guy like him. He's established enough that some of those boneheaded plays are not what you expect from him. I expect to see improvement at his age. And a big part of that improvement for a guy like him is to be consistently good, night in and night out. That definitely didn't happen this year.

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03-18-2017, 04:01 PM
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For all the hype he gets I think Lindholm has had a very disappointing season. There have been times I'd swear he had a #2 on his back. That just shouldn't be happening with a guy like him. He's established enough that some of those boneheaded plays are not what you expect from him. I expect to see improvement at his age. And a big part of that improvement for a guy like him is to be consistently good, night in and night out. That definitely didn't happen this year.
He basically has a cast on his wrist.....

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03-18-2017, 04:07 PM
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He basically has a cast on his wrist.....
Really? I think you've mentioned that once or twice already. Sorry, it still doesn't account for some of the bad positioning he's been caught in.

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03-18-2017, 04:12 PM
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Really? I think you've mentioned that once or twice already. Sorry, it still doesn't account for some of the bad positioning he's been caught in.
I don't remember much of that other than him going for a signature Beauchemin hip check and missing to throw the game

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03-18-2017, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by BSU View Post
I don't remember much of that other than him going for a signature Beauchemin hip check and missing to throw the game
Having Getzlaf and Manson open behind the net and across the ice last night and instead deciding to try to dangle past the forward when they had another guy just standing at the blue line last night was also not a great decision. Hes been making some uncharacteristically bad/aggressive decisions lately.

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03-18-2017, 06:07 PM
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I don't remember much of that other than him going for a signature Beauchemin hip check and missing to throw the game
You get tunnel vision once you decide who you like and who you don't. Me, I like the team, everybody gets my wrath when they deserve it. Hampus has been all over the place this year and I'm talking defensively. He admitted earlier in the year he was more focused on D vs O when he first returned. While it was a wise choice, he wasn't that solid on D as if to make up for the no O. Based on expectations, he's been disappointing this year.

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Old
03-18-2017, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Since the break he has 1 goal and 3 assists in 8 games. That's top among all Ducks defensemen. He also has 25 shots on goal in that time frame, which is over 3 shots per game. The only other Ducks that is averaging 2 shots per game over that time span is Montour with 12 in 6 games.

Vatanen has been miles better recently and it looks like his shot is back to 100% again.
And is pointless in the last 3 games. 1 goal off of those shots isn't anything like his goal scoring rate from past seasons. Until he starts scoring goals at a better rate I ain't happy.

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Vatanen is far more than a 3rd pairing defenseman. He's a low end number two or high end number three guy. He's struggled this year but he's starting to bounce back and provided he works hard this offseason he should bounce back next year.
A low end #2 is a top pair quality defenseman he ain't that no way. I wouldn't even call him a high end #3 either. He needs to lead a 2nd defense pair and do well before I would call him a #3 let alone a high end one.

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Last season and the year before he had 37 and 38 points in 67 and 71 games (that's a 45 and 43 point pace). He also played 21 minutes per game and was key to our PP and PK. I would classify that as a low end number 2 or high end number 3. I would struggle to name 60 better defensemen than Vatanen over the course of those two seasons.
He was leading the 3rd defense pair those seasons. Playing in the top 4 his production hasn't been nearly as good. What does that tell you?

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03-18-2017, 06:39 PM
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You get tunnel vision once you decide who you like and who you don't. Me, I like the team, everybody gets my wrath when they deserve it. Hampus has been all over the place this year and I'm talking defensively. He admitted earlier in the year he was more focused on D vs O when he first returned. While it was a wise choice, he wasn't that solid on D as if to make up for the no O. Based on expectations, he's been disappointing this year.
He has been disappointing this season but I don't think he's been as all over the place on the defensive side of things as you're making out. He's been a bit more over the place lately but the majority of the time he's our best defensive player.

My biggest gripes with him are the lack of offensive ability, the fact he took a while to come up to speed because of his stupid hold out and then once he was up to speed he didn't take any noticeable steps forward in terms of his ability compared to last season.

I have always thought he and Trouba have been by far the best Dmen of the 2012 draft class. Both came in and were impact players at a young age. Up until the end of last season Lindholm had the edge and was looking like a better player. This year both held out but the difference between the two is that Trouba after taking a few games to settle in took a huge step forward and is a key player at both ends of the rink. His offensive game has taken off and his defensive game has also improved. Lindholm's offensive game has regressed and his defensive game is about where it was last season although probably less consistent. That's disappointing to me.

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03-18-2017, 09:47 PM
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He has been disappointing this season but I don't think he's been as all over the place on the defensive side of things as you're making out. He's been a bit more over the place lately but the majority of the time he's our best defensive player.

My biggest gripes with him are the lack of offensive ability, the fact he took a while to come up to speed because of his stupid hold out and then once he was up to speed he didn't take any noticeable steps forward in terms of his ability compared to last season.

I have always thought he and Trouba have been by far the best Dmen of the 2012 draft class. Both came in and were impact players at a young age. Up until the end of last season Lindholm had the edge and was looking like a better player. This year both held out but the difference between the two is that Trouba after taking a few games to settle in took a huge step forward and is a key player at both ends of the rink. His offensive game has taken off and his defensive game has also improved. Lindholm's offensive game has regressed and his defensive game is about where it was last season although probably less consistent. That's disappointing to me.
No noticeable improvement in consistency or hitting the next level up from last year. I think we're pretty much saying the same thing. It's just pretty disappointing.

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Old
03-21-2017, 02:54 AM
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He's definitely improved since the break, maybe he was carrying an injury or maybe he just didn't work on anything all off season

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03-21-2017, 09:17 AM
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He's definitely improved since the break, maybe he was carrying an injury or maybe he just didn't work on anything all off season
Agreed. Although he's been playing on 3rd pair more often lately as well. I can't help but think that has something to do with it too. That said, he's been better then he was to start the year even when in top 4.

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03-21-2017, 09:42 AM
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Agreed. Although he's been playing on 3rd pair more often lately as well. I can't help but think that has something to do with it too. That said, he's been better then he was to start the year even when in top 4.
His shot and presence on the PP is noticeably better and he's still playing the 3rd most minutes so I'm not sure if that has all that much to do with it.

He's one of the few on the team that doesn't look like an absolute train wreck with Bieksa though. Which I wouldn't expect.

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03-21-2017, 10:32 AM
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It might not be fair to say, but I think the big contract def. affected his preparations for this season.

That said, he finally is starting to look like the player deserving of said contract. I love how he is shooting the puck now.

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03-21-2017, 11:20 AM
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His shot and presence on the PP is noticeably better and he's still playing the 3rd most minutes so I'm not sure if that has all that much to do with it.

He's one of the few on the team that doesn't look like an absolute train wreck with Bieksa though. Which I wouldn't expect.
I'm not trying to suggest that it's primarily the reason. Sorry, if I did not make that clear. He looks better in general, but It'd be foolish to ignore that trend.

Agreed about Bieksa. Although I think limiting Bieksa's minutes helps minimize his weaknesses. Hopefully RC continues that.

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