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Old
02-23-2013, 01:47 PM
  #26
DaveG
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The 06 Oilers were a weird team. I can't get onboard with them as the weakest team, but they weren't overly great either, nothing stands out aside from Pronger on defense. Their defense top 4 was solid with Pronger playing in god mode throughout the playoffs, even Greene on the 3rd pairing was solid. Their forwards weren't anything spectacular, but they were deep and they had big playoffs out of role players. They were basically able to wear out everyone but the Canes. As stated a few posters above, their regular season was mediocre mostly because of horrid goaltending.

Honestly I have to think the 96 Panthers or 99 Sabres take this one.

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02-23-2013, 01:50 PM
  #27
Kyle McMahon
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I'm going to propose the 2002 Hurricanes as a candidate to the original question. And by the way, I thoroughly enjoyed their run that spring, that was very likeable team.

The Southeast Division was horrendous that year, claiming the 16th, 19th, 27th, 28th, and 30th overall teams in the NHL. With all due respect to the Hurricanes, they probably don't even come close to making the playoffs in the Western Conference that year, and they're 7th in the East if not for division winners getting the top three seeds. But unbelievably, they got home ice advntage in all three EC playoff rounds that year. I can't imagine the the odds of the 15th-ranked playoff seed having that scenario occur.

The Canes were also very healthy this season. No key players missed any significant amount of time as far as I can tell/remember. Sandis Ozolinsh being shipped out for Bret Hedican and Kevyn Adams was the biggest trade of the year. Sean Hill came in from St. Louis, but that was pretty early in the season. So not really a team that made significant upgrades late in the year and went into April with a clearly superior roster to the one they iced for the first 60 games of the year.

They got the Devils in the first round. No slouch, as the Devils won the East the previous two seasons and would do so again the next year. But after two long runs the previous springs, the Devils were out of gas. Carolina got them at the perfect time. New Jersey outscored them in the series, but lost four one-goal games, two of them in OT.

The surprising Habs were their opponent in round 2. Montreal was the definition of a one man show that year, with Theodore winning the Hart Trophy. Yannic Perreault was their leading scorer. Koivu returned late in the year, but Zednik was knocked out of the playoffs in the previous round. Nonetheless, Montreal was on the verge of going up 3-1 in the series until Michel Therrien had a meltdown behind the bench to give Carolina a two-man advantage. The Hurricanes tied the game then won in OT to turn the tide. They slaughtered the demoralized Habs in the next two games to move on.

The beaten and battered Leafs were their EC Final opponent. Previously the Leafs would have had home ice advantage due to superior point total, but the league changed the rule before the season, so division winners maintained their seeding all the way through. As it happened, Carolina went 3-0 in Toronto anyway, so this probably didn't matter.

The Leafs were walking wounded after an extremely physical 7 game series against the Isles and another 7-gamer against Ottawa. Carolina was able to outlast them, winning three games in OT.

To summarize, the Hurricanes got as much help as possible in the other playoff matchups. The top two seeds, Boston and Philly, were upset in Round 1, leaving the Hurricanes the top remaining seed, as well as giving them the #8 seed as a Round 2 opponent. The Senators would probably have provided a better equiped opponent in the EC Final than Toronto, had they not choked away that series in Game 6.

Carolina had Sean Hill and Bret Hedican as their top 2 blueliners in terms of ice time. Glen Wesley and Aaron Ward were a very good 2nd pairing. Wallin and Malik rounded things out, so overall the blueline was probably better than league average but still weak by finalist standards.

Up front 38-year old Ron Francis led the way. Bates Battaglia had by far his best season, and Jeff O'Neill was still a first line player. Rod Brind'Amour was pretty much at the low point of his career offensively, but still a strong 2nd line C. Rookie Erik Cole was a pleasant surprise. Sami Kapanen had a strong regular season, but vanished offensively in the playoffs scoring just a single goal.

It's really quite shocking that a team with this weak of an offense made it to the final. Other than Battaglia, really nobody stepped up their game on the scoresheet. There was no John Druce/Fernando Pisani surprise offensive contributor. Carolina averged just 2 goals per game in the post-season, and if you remove the two games where they trounced Montreal, it becomes an unfathomably low 1.6 GPG. They got great goaltending from Irbe for the most part, but it's often forgotten that they had to turn to Kevin Weekes for several games, and he picked up right where Irbe left off.

The offense was meager, but it was timely. The Canes won 9 of their 13 games by one goal, seven of those in OT. But overall, that roster reaching the final the way they did probably happens once in 50 times. Kudos to them for being that once. That roster was pretty much the same in 2002-03, and finished dead last in league scoring, 27th in team defense, and 30th in the standings.

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02-23-2013, 01:55 PM
  #28
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I was going to suggest the Canes as well. TDMM suggests that the '98 Cup Finals were "predetermined", but I remember people saying the same about 2002. Even as the Wings/Avs went into game 7 there were those saying that it was pretty much the equivalent to the Stanley Cup Finals because whomever one would roll over the Canes.

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02-23-2013, 02:11 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
I'm going to propose the 2002 Hurricanes as a candidate to the original question. And by the way, I thoroughly enjoyed their run that spring, that was very likeable team.

The Southeast Division was horrendous that year, claiming the 16th, 19th, 27th, 28th, and 30th overall teams in the NHL. With all due respect to the Hurricanes, they probably don't even come close to making the playoffs in the Western Conference that year, and they're 7th in the East if not for division winners getting the top three seeds. But unbelievably, they got home ice advntage in all three EC playoff rounds that year. I can't imagine the the odds of the 15th-ranked playoff seed having that scenario occur.

The Canes were also very healthy this season. No key players missed any significant amount of time as far as I can tell/remember. Sandis Ozolinsh being shipped out for Bret Hedican and Kevyn Adams was the biggest trade of the year. Sean Hill came in from St. Louis, but that was pretty early in the season. So not really a team that made significant upgrades late in the year and went into April with a clearly superior roster to the one they iced for the first 60 games of the year.

They got the Devils in the first round. No slouch, as the Devils won the East the previous two seasons and would do so again the next year. But after two long runs the previous springs, the Devils were out of gas. Carolina got them at the perfect time. New Jersey outscored them in the series, but lost four one-goal games, two of them in OT.

The surprising Habs were their opponent in round 2. Montreal was the definition of a one man show that year, with Theodore winning the Hart Trophy. Yannic Perreault was their leading scorer. Koivu returned late in the year, but Zednik was knocked out of the playoffs in the previous round. Nonetheless, Montreal was on the verge of going up 3-1 in the series until Michel Therrien had a meltdown behind the bench to give Carolina a two-man advantage. The Hurricanes tied the game then won in OT to turn the tide. They slaughtered the demoralized Habs in the next two games to move on.

The beaten and battered Leafs were their EC Final opponent. Previously the Leafs would have had home ice advantage due to superior point total, but the league changed the rule before the season, so division winners maintained their seeding all the way through. As it happened, Carolina went 3-0 in Toronto anyway, so this probably didn't matter.

The Leafs were walking wounded after an extremely physical 7 game series against the Isles and another 7-gamer against Ottawa. Carolina was able to outlast them, winning three games in OT.

To summarize, the Hurricanes got as much help as possible in the other playoff matchups. The top two seeds, Boston and Philly, were upset in Round 1, leaving the Hurricanes the top remaining seed, as well as giving them the #8 seed as a Round 2 opponent. The Senators would probably have provided a better equiped opponent in the EC Final than Toronto, had they not choked away that series in Game 6.

Carolina had Sean Hill and Bret Hedican as their top 2 blueliners in terms of ice time. Glen Wesley and Aaron Ward were a very good 2nd pairing. Wallin and Malik rounded things out, so overall the blueline was probably better than league average but still weak by finalist standards.

Up front 38-year old Ron Francis led the way. Bates Battaglia had by far his best season, and Jeff O'Neill was still a first line player. Rod Brind'Amour was pretty much at the low point of his career offensively, but still a strong 2nd line C. Rookie Erik Cole was a pleasant surprise. Sami Kapanen had a strong regular season, but vanished offensively in the playoffs scoring just a single goal.

It's really quite shocking that a team with this weak of an offense made it to the final. Other than Battaglia, really nobody stepped up their game on the scoresheet. There was no John Druce/Fernando Pisani surprise offensive contributor. Carolina averged just 2 goals per game in the post-season, and if you remove the two games where they trounced Montreal, it becomes an unfathomably low 1.6 GPG. They got great goaltending from Irbe for the most part, but it's often forgotten that they had to turn to Kevin Weekes for several games, and he picked up right where Irbe left off.

The offense was meager, but it was timely. The Canes won 9 of their 13 games by one goal, seven of those in OT. But overall, that roster reaching the final the way they did probably happens once in 50 times. Kudos to them for being that once. That roster was pretty much the same in 2002-03, and finished dead last in league scoring, 27th in team defense, and 30th in the standings.
Eh, yes and no on the same roster thing.

Gelinas was gone. And injuries in the 02-03 season absolutely ravaged that team. Brind'Amour lost nearly 40 games, Cole and Svoboda both about 30, Vasicek 25, Weekes who had taken the reigns as the #1 lost about 1/3rd of the season.

The roster got to the point via injuries and trades where Ryan Bayda was their top line left winger.




Certainly a contender for the worst SCF team, even despite having Francis, Brind'Amour, and prime Kapanen and O'Neill on the team up front. That said, I still think they're better then the one man shows that were the 96 Panthers and 99 Sabres

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02-23-2013, 02:37 PM
  #30
Kyle McMahon
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Eh, yes and no on the same roster thing.

Gelinas was gone. And injuries in the 02-03 season absolutely ravaged that team. Brind'Amour lost nearly 40 games, Cole and Svoboda both about 30, Vasicek 25, Weekes who had taken the reigns as the #1 lost about 1/3rd of the season.

The roster got to the point via injuries and trades where Ryan Bayda was their top line left winger.




Certainly a contender for the worst SCF team, even despite having Francis, Brind'Amour, and prime Kapanen and O'Neill on the team up front. That said, I still think they're better then the one man shows that were the 96 Panthers and 99 Sabres
True about injuries. I think Carolina was still contending for a playoff spot around the mid-season mark until the bottom fell out from under them.

I think the 96 Panthers are getting way too much criticism in here. That team was 7th overall in the NHL, and middle of the pack offensively despite the reputation as a bunch of defensive grinders. They also made a big offensive upgrade at the deadline, bringing in Ray Sheppard for draft picks.

The previous two seasons they missed the playoffs by a single point, and they started the next season with a big undefeated streak and made the playoffs comfortably. One of the few teams, in fact, that didn't go into the toilet after a surprise run to the final. They beat good teams en route to the final as well, unlike other teams that were aided by a multitude of upsets that thinned out the ranks of contenders.

I'll go as far as saying the Panthers really don't belong in the conversation. To me they are clearly a stronger finalist than any of the Hurricanes, Ducks, or Flames of the early 2000's.

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02-23-2013, 02:39 PM
  #31
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The 2006 Oilers honestly have no business being mentioned in this thread. The only reason they weren't a top-3 seed is goaltending, which was historically bad until Roloson arrived in March (and even then, Roloson was below average until the playoffs). The Markkanen/Conklin/Morrison triumverate had a combined save percentage of .881! That is weak by mid-80's standards, much less 2006.

Despite goaltending this incredibly bad, the team still somehow managed to rank 13th defensively, and allowed the fewest shots against in the entire league. With even average goaltending, they would have been one of the league's best teams defensively. They ranked 13th in GF as well, and added Samsonov and Spacek's offense late in the year. If they had their playoff roster for an entire season, it's not a stretch at all to suggest they'd have been a top 10 team in both offense and defense (likely top 5 in defense).

2006 Oilers remind me a lot of 94 Canucks, 2010 Flyers, 2012 Devils. I don't see those teams getting mentioned in here.
The Oilers didnt win their division because they werent that good of a team. They managed to stay in playoff contention until they loaded up at the deadline. It also helped the LA and Vancouver choked down the stretch. They then rode a hot Roloson and Pronger to the Cup finals. Look how bad they were after trading Pronger the next year.


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02-23-2013, 02:40 PM
  #32
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The 98 Capitals is the first team that I thought of..

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02-23-2013, 02:44 PM
  #33
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I don't understand how the 1991 North Stars can be considered weak.
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Seriously? You folks need to pull yourselves out of the you know where.

Propp made 5 trips to the All Star game, 1000 points for a career.

Mike Gartner, over 1300 points, Team Canada numerous times, record for more than 30 goals per season over a career), 7 All Star games, ranked 89th best player by Hockey News. 1 time All Star game MVP, NHL Hall of Famer.

Brian Bellows, another 1000 point guy, 3 All star games, 1 2nd team All Star.

Just those little blurbs about them should tell you all of them were considered top 10 in the game at some point of their career. No wonder HF Boards sucks sometimes, when you have critical thinkers like this guy. I really need to start ignoring people.
Mike Gartner? He wasn't on the Stars at that time. He was a Ranger by 1991.

In reality a team that won only 13 more regular season games than playoff games is going to be on this list. Maybe they aren't the worst because they did have some decent players and I put them over the 1996 Panthers and 2002 Canes but they certainly weren't anywhere close to one of the better teams.


Alright I am not sure this was mentioned but how about the 2004 Flames? There's Iginla and Kipper. That's it. Kipper sort of came out of nowhere at that time while Iginla had a couple good years under his belt already. The rest of that team? Here are the leading scorers:

Iginla - 73
Conroy - 47
Donovan - 42
Gelinas - 35
Leopold - 33

I consider 2004 to be the lowest point of the dead puck era but these are stats you would have expected the Minnesota Wild to get, not a Cup finalist. To think, they came inches away from a Cup win as well.

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02-23-2013, 03:00 PM
  #34
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Does anyone think the '93 LA Kings belong here?

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02-23-2013, 03:22 PM
  #35
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Mike Gartner? He wasn't on the Stars at that time. He was a Ranger by 1991.

.
He was a Rag by then but follow the statements and questions being put forth. BeeBee has him on the team in his first post, then another guy comes along and says Gartner was never considered top 10 or even 20 forward during his playing days. I am only responding to the claims.

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02-23-2013, 03:35 PM
  #36
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Does anyone think the '93 LA Kings belong here?
They had Wayne Gretzky and still a pretty decent supporting cast. That answers my question more or less.

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02-23-2013, 04:14 PM
  #37
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He was a Rag by then but follow the statements and questions being put forth. BeeBee has him on the team in his first post, then another guy comes along and says Gartner was never considered top 10 or even 20 forward during his playing days. I am only responding to the claims.
If you mean me, it's not true.

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02-23-2013, 04:26 PM
  #38
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I'm thinking the '98 Caps or '06 Oilers here.

The '96 Panthers were weak on paper, but they were a real pain to play against.
all the 98 Wings Caps games were by one goal save the last one

However, I seem t remember the Wings romping the Flyers 6-0 or something in game 3.I don't think the Wings ever trailed in that series.Although it might have been both? so long ago.

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02-23-2013, 04:33 PM
  #39
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1991 Northstars and 1996 Panthers. The NHL had its heart ripped out the day Pittsburgh couldn't beat Florida in Game 7. This was a time when teams with no talent could yank and water ski their opponents to oblivion and just pray that they had a hot goalie and the other team would cough up the puck out of sheer frustration.

Let's also remember the 1991 Northstars people. They had 68 points. That's just awful. On paper they do look a little better and there were a lot of players who burst out in the postseason with their best performance ever. But this was not a team anyone thought was anywhere near a contender. It was a monumental upset when they beat Chicago in the first round.
on the other hand, they upset the presidents trophy winners in the first round (backstopped by the vezina/calder winner who also was a hart finalist), the second best team in the league in round two (featuring two of the league's top three scorers, including the hart winner), then the defending champs. i don't know, i was young but i remember that run pretty clearly: that team looked really good. when i saw the '93 habs and '95 devils, those teams reminded me of the '91 north stars but with franchise goalies and depth on d.

that team was obviously not good in the regular season, but if we're talking about weakest team on the ice, not weakest team on paper, those north stars are a step above the panthers, ducks, hurricanes, oilers, etc.: a wealth of playoff and big game experience playing at a high level (smith, propp, broten), the kind of really good grinders that wouldn't look out of place on a cup winner (stew gavin playing out of his mind, gaetan duchesne, ulf dahlen), and an excellent system (gainey was behind the bench). add to that three offensive stars in peak gagner, bellows one season removed from 55 goals and a second team all-star nod, and young modano, and that's a pretty average stanley cup finalist... maybe even just a franchise goalie and/or another top pair d-man away from winning that cup.

one wonders, though, what they hell they were doing trading away larry murphy for two undrafted journeymen that year (jim johnson and chris dahlqvist). of course, murphy would skate around the arena with the cup that year. looks insane in retrospect; anyone remember how and why this went down? did that swing the cup right there?

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02-23-2013, 04:43 PM
  #40
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all the 98 Wings Caps games were by one goal save the last one

However, I seem t remember the Wings romping the Flyers 6-0 or something in game 3.I don't think the Wings ever trailed in that series.Although it might have been both? so long ago.
Yea Flyers were worse than the Caps for sure. They had no restistance at all to Detroit...

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02-23-2013, 04:49 PM
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I don't understand how the 1991 North Stars can be considered weak.
Maybe because they were a .425 regular season team? I mean think about that for a second.

They just happened to put together a hot streak for a month and go on a Cinderella run until Pittsburgh dismantled them easily.

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02-23-2013, 04:51 PM
  #42
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If you mean me, it's not true.
Ah I see, I read it wrong, I see the G now. My mistake

Anyhow, point still stands which you ignored, those players are not merely just "decent" and that North Star team, I would not consider weak by any means. I listed my reasons why and others have chimed in why that team in not weak.

What get's me the most, is you admittedly say you never saw these guys play, so, I must ask, how did you come up with your opinion that they were "just 'decent". Propp and Bellows were not just "decent" players. They were not super stars but they were stars in the league. And please don't come at me with that tiresome excuse of "the high scoring era" because I bet you droll over Gretzky's point totals and he played in that era too.

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02-23-2013, 04:55 PM
  #43
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Yea Flyers were worse than the Caps for sure. They had no restistance at all to Detroit...
Flyers were dominated by Detroit, but they were a great team for years that just had playoff issues. In the regular season, Flyers and Devils were probably the two best teams year-in, year-out in the Eastern Conference at the time. They had arguably the best top line in hockey, solid depth led by Brind'amour and a good #1 D in Desjardins. I don't think they were a weak team, any more than I think 1995 Detroit was weak, despite both getting rolled in the finals.

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02-23-2013, 04:56 PM
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Maybe because they were a .425 regular season team? I mean think about that for a second.

They just happened to put together a hot streak for a month and go on a Cinderella run until Pittsburgh dismantled them easily.
Like I said, few trades during the season, and Gainey's first year on the bench that took some time for the players to adjust to his new system. I know they went on a tear from January to the end of the season and didn't lose many games. They started off slow which explains that record.

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02-23-2013, 05:02 PM
  #45
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Certainly a contender for the worst SCF team, even despite having Francis, Brind'Amour, and prime Kapanen and O'Neill on the team up front. That said, I still think they're better then the one man shows that were the 96 Panthers and 99 Sabres
The 99 Sabres were a part of the best 4 year run in the history of the franchise and don't belong in this discussion.

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02-23-2013, 05:03 PM
  #46
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Maybe because they were a .425 regular season team? I mean think about that for a second.

They just happened to put together a hot streak for a month and go on a Cinderella run until Pittsburgh dismantled them easily.
What is the criteria here? Regular season performance or a team's roster?

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02-23-2013, 05:48 PM
  #47
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What is the criteria here? Regular season performance or a team's roster?
i think neither is ultimately as interesting as how that team actually performed throughout the playoffs. i.e., were they average and just happened to beat worse teams, did they get a lot of lucky bounces or play teams that got hurt, did they ride a hot goalie, did they dominate their higher ranked opponents?

the '03 ducks were a ridiculously hot goalie, a stifling system, and not much else; but they were greater than the sum of their parts. the '11 canucks had a ridiculous top six D, a vezina finalist, two scoring champs, and the selke winner, but they were less than the sum of their parts. that wasn't a great collection of talent, but it was a very good team.

the '03 ducks and '11 canucks both made it to game seven of the finals and both got shut out in the final game. but if we're going to talk about which one was weaker, you'll get a different answer if the criterion is the team's roster on paper or regular season performance, or if the criteria is how dominant that team actually looked in the playoffs (i.e., the ducks demolished the heavy favourites in their first two rounds; the canucks almost lost to an eighth seed in the first round, and put up much less of a fight against the cup winners than the ducks did).

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02-23-2013, 06:50 PM
  #48
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Canucks almost lost in the first round, but it was against the defending Cup champs. That has to count for something. The Nucks were also President's Trophy winners and going into the finals were the favorites. After they went up 2-0 fans were already saying the series was over.

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02-23-2013, 07:07 PM
  #49
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I find it difficult to include Anaheim or Buffalo in this list, because both teams had phenomenal goaltending. Buffalo had Hasek, and Giguere gave Anaheim a legendary performance.

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02-23-2013, 07:14 PM
  #50
TheDevilMadeMe
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
I find it difficult to include Anaheim or Buffalo in this list, because both teams had phenomenal goaltending. Buffalo had Hasek, and Giguere gave Anaheim a legendary performance.
Not to mention Anaheim had Paul Kariya who looked like he was still in his prime in the regular season, though he disappeared in the playoffs for the most part.

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