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Old
03-04-2013, 09:35 AM
  #651
MTaylorJ1
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Are you saying Wheeler and Ryder don't create space?

And (a) it's not 5 years ago anymore, he's failed to replicate that success since (b) that was playing behind the clear #1 line of Savard, Lucic and Kessel.
Yes, I'm saying Wheeler and Ryder don't create space. Christ, that was the entire knock on Wheeler the entire time he played here.

And he's about as much of a 70+ player as he is a 50+ player. He's done each once, and 60+ the other two. So he's what you can expect, a defensively responsible (the craziest thing in my mind about the 70 point season isn't that, it's he did it with "meh" wingers 12:30 ES a game, and 1:45 of SH time) 60+ point guy. In Boston's system, that's extremely valuable.

That also being said, I still consider the Lucic-Krejci-Horton line the 2nd line. The LW-C-RW are just a bit better at each spot (and a lot better in Seguin's case) on the 1st line.

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03-04-2013, 09:38 AM
  #652
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I think our two needs are 3rd lin winger and defenseman. I just hope we can keep Koko and Spooner out of any deal.

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03-04-2013, 09:39 AM
  #653
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Originally Posted by chuckdobbins View Post
Can somebody explain how a Briere buyout would work, and what the cap implications may be? Say Boston trades for him, he finishes this season, Boston wins the cup of course, then they use a compliance buyout on Briere. What happens? What is Briere owed for cash from Boston, and what impact does it have on Boston's cap #
Briere is owed $3.3m over 4 years, none of which counts against the cap.

Briere (though he'd never say it) WANTS to be bought out. He's carrying a 6+ cap hit for 2 years, but is only making $5m. He gets bought out ($3.3m), he's free to sign wherever for easily more than $1.7m. That's why he's touchy about his NTC. He KNOWS Philly is going to buy him out, he can't guarantee that happens anywhere else. But as we all know, Boston is definitely one of the places where he'd get bought out. So Philly would be motivated to move him, they get an asset, they don't have to use the buyout on him, and they'd be eligible to re-sign him. Slam dunk really.

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03-04-2013, 09:42 AM
  #654
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Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
Briere is owed $3.3m over 4 years, none of which counts against the cap.

Briere (though he'd never say it) WANTS to be bought out. He's carrying a 6+ cap hit for 2 years, but is only making $5m. He gets bought out ($3.3m), he's free to sign wherever for easily more than $1.7m. That's why he's touchy about his NTC. He KNOWS Philly is going to buy him out, he can't guarantee that happens anywhere else. But as we all know, Boston is definitely one of the places where he'd get bought out. So Philly would be motivated to move him, they get an asset, they don't have to use the buyout on him, and they'd be eligible to re-sign him. Slam dunk really.
Makes sense. So basically as long a team is willing to pay the guy 3.3 for basically nothing, it's kosher.

I have a hard time believing that Boston would do this I don't think my reasoning for that needs to be discussed.

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03-04-2013, 09:42 AM
  #655
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Originally Posted by Alicat View Post
Seriously? Criticize his lack of offensive production but don't ever question his character especially if you have 0 proof. If he didn't care like you claim, he wouldn't be one of our Alternate Captains. He is a team first guy and always has been.

You can hate on him but making baseless claims that he doesn't give a **** will not fly and you will be called on it every time.
His defensive game has been off as well. He played one game where he was consistantly moving his feet. Krecji gets no slack when he goes through these lulls neither should Kelly.

Let him sit up in the press box a game it worked for Thornton.

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Old
03-04-2013, 09:48 AM
  #656
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Originally Posted by chuckdobbins View Post
Makes sense. So basically as long a team is willing to pay the guy 3.3 for basically nothing, it's kosher.

I have a hard time believing that Boston would do this I don't think my reasoning for that needs to be discussed.
Eh, we have guys like that, they've just been our guys.

And in terms of paying Briere 3.3 for nothing, it's all a matter of perspective. A player of Briere's caliber who won't get bought out is likely bringing back a Kaberle package (if not more). So it's not $3.3m for nothing, it's $3.3m to keep say Khokhlachev and a 2nd. Worth it in my mind.

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03-04-2013, 09:48 AM
  #657
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I hate to say this because I'm a Bourque fan. But Kelly & Peverley look like different players when they are skating with Paille. They were all over the place last night. I think Chris puts in a heck of an effort, maybe it's just chemistry.

I think the team is better off with him scratched and Pandolfo on the 4th line. At least until a bigger upgrade can be made via trade.
What game were you watching the momentum was all in the bruins favor. The third line got 2 shifts after the great shift by Thornton and gave up 2 goals basically losing the game for you.

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03-04-2013, 09:55 AM
  #658
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Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
Yes, I'm saying Wheeler and Ryder don't create space. Christ, that was the entire knock on Wheeler the entire time he played here.

And he's about as much of a 70+ player as he is a 50+ player. He's done each once, and 60+ the other two. So he's what you can expect, a defensively responsible (the craziest thing in my mind about the 70 point season isn't that, it's he did it with "meh" wingers 12:30 ES a game, and 1:45 of SH time) 60+ point guy. In Boston's system, that's extremely valuable.

That also being said, I still consider the Lucic-Krejci-Horton line the 2nd line. The LW-C-RW are just a bit better at each spot (and a lot better in Seguin's case) on the 1st line.
You mean the same two "meh" wingers who had as many (Ryder) or more points (Wheeler) as Krejci last season? And yes, when that line was clicking Wheeler and Ryder were creating a ton of space for Krejci.

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03-04-2013, 09:59 AM
  #659
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
You mean the same two "meh" wingers who had as many (Ryder) or more points (Wheeler) as Krejci last season? And yes, when that line was clicking Wheeler and Ryder were creating a ton of space for Krejci.
They had as many points as Krejci did...in Boston? That's news to me. It's not as though I haven't written in a billion places in this thread that the systems are completely different. And to that, Winnipeg to use another sport as an analogy is like going from Duke to Rucker Park. Are there defensive responsibilities for forwards in the 'Peg? Because I've never seen them. Add that to two of the most offensive minded defensemen you'll ever see in Enstrom and Byfuglien and you're comparing apples to rocks.

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03-04-2013, 10:03 AM
  #660
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Eh, we have guys like that, they've just been our guys.

And in terms of paying Briere 3.3 for nothing, it's all a matter of perspective. A player of Briere's caliber who won't get bought out is likely bringing back a Kaberle package (if not more). So it's not $3.3m for nothing, it's $3.3m to keep say Khokhlachev and a 2nd. Worth it in my mind.
Yes, that's true. But it's 3.3 million in dead money for Jacobs. I'm just a little hesitant to believe that they would pull something like that. I guess I will just believe it when I see it. Isn't Savard's LTIR reserve still sitting by, waiting to be spent as well?

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03-04-2013, 10:04 AM
  #661
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Originally Posted by chuckdobbins View Post
Yes, that's true. But it's 3.3 million in dead money for Jacobs. I'm just a little hesitant to believe that they would pull something like that. I guess I will just believe it when I see it. Isn't Savard's LTIR reserve still sitting by, waiting to be spent as well?
Jacobs losing $3.3m in the deal is just the icing on the cake for me. They're probably $3.3m under budget to begin with between this season and last, so all in all, I think they'd be fine.

They're going to need that LTIR next year without Briere, nevermind with him.

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03-04-2013, 10:12 AM
  #662
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With the way Ference & McQuaid are playing,, I'd surely like to see Chia sniff around that rumored Carlson deal with Washington.

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03-04-2013, 10:14 AM
  #663
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Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
They had as many points as Krejci did...in Boston? That's news to me. It's not as though I haven't written in a billion places in this thread that the systems are completely different. And to that, Winnipeg to use another sport as an analogy is like going from Duke to Rucker Park. Are there defensive responsibilities for forwards in the 'Peg? Because I've never seen them. Add that to two of the most offensive minded defensemen you'll ever see in Enstrom and Byfuglien and you're comparing apples to rocks.
So the argument now is that they were meh wingers here but 60+ point wingers elsewhere?

Sorry, I don't think you give near enough credit to Ryder and Wheeler who are very good players in their own right and capable of putting up serious points with whoever they play with, as proven by the fact that they've done just that.

None of which has anything to do with what I was saying earlier.. the idea that Krejci has made Lucic and Horton better is a best guess that isn't supported by the numbers.

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03-04-2013, 10:14 AM
  #664
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
How do folks feel about Jagr on Kellys line? Could be that LH shot on the PP that they currently lack.
Any offensive talent the Bruins try to put on Kelly's line will be nullified. Chris Kelly used up every ounce of offensive production he had left to get this sweet contract. Outside of his play in the other two zones, which is excellent, he has nothing left in the tank.

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Old
03-04-2013, 10:20 AM
  #665
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So the argument now is that they were meh wingers here but 60+ point wingers elsewhere?

Sorry, I don't think you give near enough credit to Ryder and Wheeler who are very good players in their own right and capable of putting up serious points with whoever they play with, as proven by the fact that they've done just that.

None of which has anything to do with what I was saying earlier.. the idea that Krejci has made Lucic and Horton better is a best guess that isn't supported by the numbers.
Yeah, I'm probably just sensitive with you and Krejci arguments. I can't look at one player in their top 6 and say this guy makes his linemates. So if that was someone's argument, I disagree. Those 3 work tremendously well together. The line suffered without Horton last year, and would likely suffer without Lucic or Krejci as well.

But then again, I don't think the top 6 is at all the problem this year. Having Peverley (-6) and Kelly (-4) making $3m plus with No-trade considerations is though.

And of course the fact that as soon as Chara goes off the ice, our defensive personnel starts wearing a spoked "P" could be an issue too.

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03-04-2013, 10:34 AM
  #666
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
How do folks feel about Jagr on Kellys line? Could be that LH shot on the PP that they currently lack.
If you trade for him, don't put him on Kelly's line.

I'd have nothing against acquiring him, there was a proposal on the trade board recently which said Caron+Cross for him... I'd do that. Helps the powerplay, gives us 8 top 6 calibre forwards again, and would be off the books next year.

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03-04-2013, 01:12 PM
  #667
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If you trade for him, don't put him on Kelly's line.

I'd have nothing against acquiring him, there was a proposal on the trade board recently which said Caron+Cross for him... I'd do that. Helps the powerplay, gives us 8 top 6 calibre forwards again, and would be off the books next year.
Who would we put down on Kelly's line if we got Jagr? I wouldn't mind trading for him, but at the same time I don't know how we'd juggle the lines to make the most out of him and our current top guys.

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03-04-2013, 01:21 PM
  #668
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I'm all onboard the Mark Streit idea now; he's just what we need. And we can either sit Ference and/or McQuaid. In fact, I would bet McQuaid might be part of the trade to get him. Streit has 7 power play points (if I read that correctly) and plays 25 minutes a night.

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03-04-2013, 01:22 PM
  #669
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Who would we put down on Kelly's line if we got Jagr? I wouldn't mind trading for him, but at the same time I don't know how we'd juggle the lines to make the most out of him and our current top guys.
Nathan Horton. Would give Peverly and Kelly some size and skill to play with. Slide Jagr onto RW with Krejci/Lucic.

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03-04-2013, 02:25 PM
  #670
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Who would we put down on Kelly's line if we got Jagr? I wouldn't mind trading for him, but at the same time I don't know how we'd juggle the lines to make the most out of him and our current top guys.
three possibilities I'd say:

a) Horton
b) Marchand
c) Get Seguin to center that line.

All three would give the third line a legit goal scorer. It's not like our setup with Jagr (or any other additional top 6 winger) in the line-up would be strictly top-6/Bottom 6... still I'd say Marchy has desertved staying in the top 6, and Seguin has shaken off his slow start (dudewas flying yesterday). So I'd say Horton. Lucic and Krejci aren't the fastest players so Jagr can keep up, and you have Looch creating space and scoring goals, while Chechmates Krejci and jagr provide the skill.

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03-04-2013, 02:42 PM
  #671
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i think defense is becoming as important as that winger.

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03-04-2013, 02:45 PM
  #672
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i think defense is becoming as important as that winger.
hopefully the B's get both in a packaged deal

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03-04-2013, 02:48 PM
  #673
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I'm all onboard the Mark Streit idea now; he's just what we need. And we can either sit Ference and/or McQuaid. In fact, I would bet McQuaid might be part of the trade to get him. Streit has 7 power play points (if I read that correctly) and plays 25 minutes a night.
Just what we need, another pmd that this system will ruin

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03-04-2013, 02:57 PM
  #674
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Just what we need, another pmd that this system will ruin
doubt it Kabrele is soft as butter that is why he is on the divers team. i mean Canadians

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03-04-2013, 03:10 PM
  #675
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Remember when Ralph Wiggum said, "What's a battle?"

I feel like this thread is exactly the same thing, only if right after saying that Ralph added FDR waited too long to get us into WWII.

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